Many researchers on the subject now believe so. What are your thoughts?

Not trolling, honestly curious where many stand on this? I figure it might be appropriate to begin a thread surrounding the greater subject matter and it's historical back ground/implications etc.

The subject is not taboo here. In fact, the more discussion the better. Nobody will run to the cub-scout den mothers and tell on you. Came across this today:


1993 AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER HAUT


(1) My name is Walter Haut

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I am retired.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air base serving as the base Public Information Officer. At approximately 9:30 AM on July 8, I received a call from Col. William Blanchard, the base commander, who said he had in his possession a flying saucer or parts thereof. He said it came from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and that the base Intelligence Officer, Major Jesse Marcel, was going to fly the material to Fort Worth.

(5) Col. Blanchard told me to write a news release about the operation and to deliver it to both newspapers and the two radio stations in Roswell. He felt that he wanted the local media to have the first opportunity at the story. I went first to KGFL, then to KSWS, then to the Daily Record and finally to the Morning Dispatch.

(6) The next day, I read in the newspaper that General Roger Ramey in Fort Worth had said the object was a weather balloon.

(7) I believe Col. Blanchard saw the material, because he sounded positive about what the material was. There is no chance that he would have mistaken it for a weather balloon. Neither is their any chance that Major Marcel would have been mistaken.

(8) In 1980, Jesse Marcel told me that the material photographed in Gen. Ramey's office was not the material he had recovered.

(9) I am convinced that the material recovered was some type of craft from outer space.

(10) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.


Signed: Walter G. Haut
5-14-93

Signature witnessed by:
M. Littell (?)


[Source: Karl Pflock, Roswell in Perspective, 1994]

CanyonAg77 said:

---

No.

End of thread.

---

We both know that's not likely. Conversations need to be had IMO. Wayyy to many and critical implications surrounding the subject matter.

Potentially the most historic moment in modern history at least....and many run from it.

Odd. Let's do something about that. History books will most likely be written someday involving just this single subject IMO.

Many believe Chris was referring to Roswell when he was heard saying this:

"Right now, we haven't gone that far back.We're dealing with the recovered UAP that landed in Kingman, AZ in the 50's. We now know the management structure and security control systems and ownership of the crash retrieval. We also know who recovers landed or crashed UAPs under what authorities. We also know that a still-highly classified memo by a Secretary of the USAF in the 1950's is still in effect to maintain the cover on UAPs."

~Chris Mellon, Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton administration. April 20, 2024

Many researchers/historians on the subject were aware of the stories surrounding the Kingman event.

There are SEVERAL more..across the globe.

What do you think came down in Kingman?

Actually, yes.

So many contradictions to the official account.

To keep the thread "historical"..I came across this yesterday:

"In this year one James Everell, a sober, discreet man, and two others, saw a great light in the night at Muddy River," Winthrop wrote on March 1, 1639.
"When it stood still, it flamed up, and was about three yards square; when it ran it was contracted into the figure of a swine."

Quote:

---

"James Everell, a sober, discreet man, and two others, saw a great light in the night at Muddy River." John Winthrop

---

Winthrop went on, "It ran swift as an arrow toward Charlton [Charlestown] and up and down about two or three hours. They were come down in their lighter [a small barge] about a mile, and, when it was over, they found themselves carried quite back against the tide to the place they came from. Divers[e] other persons saw the same light, after, about the same place."

Fascinating account of what might have been a vehicle. Course, back then they may have thought in terms of an "angel" or such perhaps.

I would think yes its a historical event because it has been referenced so many times in pop culture and beyond.

Army, put it on your bucket list to tour the museum in Roswell. No matter what pre-conceived idea you have, (little green men from Mars, government cover up, weather ballon, nothing at all), when you come out of the museum, you'll be 100 per cent convinced you're right.

aggiejim70 said:

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Army, put it on your bucket list to tour the museum in Roswell. No matter what pre-conceived idea you have, (little green men from Mars, government cover up, weather ballon, nothing at all), when you come out of the museum, you'll be 100 per cent convinced you're right.

---

It was an interesting place. I gotta wonder what et thinks about us...

Got a nice hat and shirt last summer. Truly the land of enchantment. Lots of historic quotes over the years regarding the Roswell event..or non event..

Here's one from the 6th NASA employee to walk on the moon:

"I've talked with people of stature-of military and government credentials and position-and heard their stories, and their desire to tell their stories openly to the public. And that got my attention very, very rapidly.... The first hand experiences of these credible witnesses that, now in advanced years are anxious to tell their story, we can't deny that, and the evidence points to the fact that Roswell was a real incident, and that indeed an alien craft did crash, and that material was recovered from that crash site".

Edgar Mitchell-6th NASA employee to walk on the moon..

What if visitors from another planet etc really did crash out there? Does it change anything?

Does it change everything?

The Air Force has since come out and admitted it lied about the weather balloon story. They now claim that they were testing jet fighter ejection seats in airplanes flying out of Alamagordo, right across the mountains from Roswell. They say what was found was a prototype ejection seat with test dummies in it. They made up the weather balloon story because the ejection seat testing was highly classified.

That seems to be at least as plausible as "aliens".

Jabin said:

---

The Air Force has since come out and admitted it lied about the weather balloon story. They now claim that they were testing jet fighter ejection seats in airplanes flying out of Alamagordo, right across the mountains from Roswell. They say what was found was a prototype ejection seat with test dummies in it. They made up the weather balloon story because the ejection seat testing was highly classified.

That seems to be at least as plausible as "aliens".

---

Yeah, first they evidently told the truth, then quickly said it was a weather balloon. Then it became a mogul nuclear detonation detection array assembly. Not sure what all they have concocted since, but lies as well. Many researchers into the event, that know far more than I, conclude it was something not from our planet. Neither the materials retrieved or the bodies. The Air Force is a prime mover in the dishonesty system. The Navy at least has come out and said something like "Yeah, those are unidentified objects" when the Navy uap film clips came out. But heck, I see uap everyday just like everybody. I saw sitting unidentified object today on a power pole. Initially thought it was a red-tailed hawk, only to realize it was ole turkey buzzard.

The evidence supporting the extraterrestrial explanation is tremendous.

Ret. CIA Officer John Ramirez: "I give credence to fact that Roswell actually happened... bodies were recovered & .. their DNA was examined...same sequences found in the human genome"



https://www.howandwhys.com/ret-cia-officer-testified-roswell-alien-beings-dna-was-found-in-human-genome/

It takes some time for the light to come on. For me..years.

Leonard H. Stringfield said:

---

Jabin said:

---

The Air Force has since come out and admitted it lied about the weather balloon story. They now claim that they were testing jet fighter ejection seats in airplanes flying out of Alamagordo, right across the mountains from Roswell. They say what was found was a prototype ejection seat with test dummies in it. They made up the weather balloon story because the ejection seat testing was highly classified.

That seems to be at least as plausible as "aliens".

---

Yeah, first they evidently told the truth, then quickly said it was a weather balloon. Then it became a mogul nuclear detonation detection array assembly. Not sure what all they have concocted since, but lies as well. Many researchers into the event, that know far more than I, conclude it was something not from our planet. Neither the materials retrieved or the bodies. The Air Force is a prime mover in the dishonesty system. The Navy at least has come out and said something like "Yeah, those are unidentified objects" when the Navy uap film clips came out. But heck, I see uap everyday just like everybody. I saw sitting unidentified object today on a power pole. Initially thought it was a red-tailed hawk, only to realize it was ole turkey buzzard.

The evidence supporting the extraterrestrial explanation is tremendous.

Ret. CIA Officer John Ramirez: "I give credence to fact that Roswell actually happened... bodies were recovered & .. their DNA was examined...same sequences found in the human genome"



https://www.howandwhys.com/ret-cia-officer-testified-roswell-alien-beings-dna-was-found-in-human-genome/

It takes some time for the light to come on. For me..years.

---

I know that I'm going to regret engaging with you, but please provide a bulleted list of everything that you claim is evidence that Roswell was an extraterrestrial event. Don't simply list people or allegations, but rather list verifiable facts. There is so much BS and innuendo about Roswell and very little hard facts. You love to use the word data, and I believe that you are a scientist, but the way you use data on this board has nothing to do with science.

For example, you provide a link to some interview with a guy named Ramirez, who supposedly was a CIA agent. How do we know he was a CIA agent? Even if he was, what connection did he have with Roswell? He is way too young to have Been involved at the time. What jobs did he have at the CIA? What access did he have to Air Force classified information? if he is talking about Roswell, and he did have access to classified information, he is now breaking the law. Why should we believe somebody who is willing to break the law?

You seem to believe every video, tweet, or other unsubstantiated Internet posting about Roswell without demonstrating any sense of skepticism at all. Why do you constantly believe those unsubstantiated and extremely dubious claims?

aggiejim70 said:

---

Army, put it on your bucket list to tour the museum in Roswell. No matter what pre-conceived idea you have, (little green men from Mars, government cover up, weather ballon, nothing at all), when you come out of the museum, you'll be 100 per cent convinced you're right.

---

My scout troop visited there almost 30 years ago on our way to Philmont. I thought it was neat. We also ate a themed diner, I think? I enjoyed it.

Verifiable "facts"...by whom? There may not be so much of that.

What there is however is a large amount of supporting evidence. And nobody has come out to admit publicly that it was all a ruse which man or may not indicate anything. My feeling is if someone did, it would be on CBS Evening News tonight. No deathbed confessions indicating it was joke or such. I find this....interesting. Is that a fact or proof..no. Heck, I'd like to meet an et. Would that be proof...I can't say. What there is however is lots of evidence indicating something other than a weather balloon crashed in Roswell in 1947.

Lots has been made of the evidence David Grusch presented:

"There is a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace which is extremely unethical and immoral. We are most definitely not alone."- 36-year-old David Grusch has served in the Air Force for 14 years and is a decorated Afghanistan combat officer who had earlier worked with the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). (2023) He also made stunning claims that go back to the famous Roswell incident. At the time, there were multiple witnesses who said there were bodies recovered from the alleged Roswell aircraft. "You might want to trust some of these witnesses," Grusch said. -July 2023 Congressional hearings

I assume it's a fact he said this...but what does the rational mind expect to infer from this?

Why would you regret having a dialogue with someone who obviously believes it to be true and has done quite a bit of digging around on the internet for evidence? Why would say that to me? For me, people's reactions to the topic are almost as fascinating as the subject itself. It's been that way for several years now here on TA.

And it's always neat to see that light to start to come on..

Conversations need to be had-thanks for joining in.

I dispute the claims of alien bodies "AT THE TIME".

Other then the first newspaper story, all the real wild UFO claims didn't start until well after the fact

Quote:

---

Is Roswell an historic event?

---

Yes.

Is it aliens?

No.

The initial story claimed a saucer was retrieved. Very soon after, was when the cover story was released. The general public back then was quite different from todays non-trusting folk. The greatest generation...patriotic, trusted the gov especially the military. We had just bombed Japan and terminated WW2. The story went away. It wasn't until much later (70's-80's?) when researchers began hearing "things".

The CIA and an apparent group to oversee the subject were formed within months of the reported crash.

On September 23, 1947, General Nathan Twining, head of Air Materiel Command, wrote to Army Air Command, specifically General George Schulgen, Head of Intelligence. He stated in summary: "The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious." Moreover, "There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft." They were "Metallic or light reflecting surface . . ." and "Circular or elliptical in shape, flat on bottom and domed on top." The saucers were not associated with sound, and their normal speeds were often in excess of 300 knots.


About 2 months after the vehicle had crashed near Roswell, NM...

Is this proof...no. But it is evidence suggesting something very different than a weather balloon, a mogul balloon array or a German satellite was recovered.

Leonard H. Stringfield said:

---

It wasn't until much later (70's-80's?) when researchers began hearing "things". .

---

As I said

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Leonard H. Stringfield said:

---

It wasn't until much later (70's-80's?) when researchers began hearing "things". .

---

As I said

---

Correct, it may not have been until this interview was done by researcher Dr. Stanton Friedman in 1991.

Is Mr. Anderson one of the witnesses Grusch was referring to? He has a remarkable story here:




"The evidence is overwhelming that the Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled vehicles from off the Earth".

Stanton T. Friedman Is any of this proof....absolutely not.

So Spyderman has no facts or data. What he calls "data" is simply poor videos of flaky people with no credibility, who were not witnesses to anything, talking to the camera 40-50 years after the fact.

Leonard/Spyderman, people would take your claims more seriously if you could present a serious case for them. I am open to the possibility that Roswell was something other than what the USAF claims, possibly even aliens. But the more you post the more skeptical I become of your claims.

Aren't you an entomologist? This "data" you keep claiming exists doesn't come remotely close to the minimal standards for scientific evidence.

I asked you to provide a bulleted list of the evidence you claim exists. Your failure to do so is telling - it simply does not exist.

My astronomy professor at A&M gave what I think is the best explanation of this event that I have heard.

He said what most of his peers think is that the Russians found some really disfigured person with lots of birth defects to where they didn't look human. They strapped this person into some sort of craft that looked like a UFO and crashed it into the U.S. in order to try and confuse/ create distrust amongst Americans.

This guy was friends with Stephen Hawking and a few other well known astrophysicists so it was interesting to hear what he believed happened.

Interesting, though how in Hades were the Russians going to get a flying saucer to Roswell, then toss it out the back door of an Anatov or something?

I don't know, Maybe a weather balloon like mentioned above.

Jabin said:

---

So Spyderman has no facts or data. What he calls "data" is simply poor videos of flaky people with no credibility, who were not witnesses to anything, talking to the camera 40-50 years after the fact.

Leonard/Spyderman, people would take your claims more seriously if you could present a serious case for them. I am open to the possibility that Roswell was something other than what the USAF claims, possibly even aliens. But the more you post the more skeptical I become of your claims.

Aren't you an entomologist? This "data" you keep claiming exists doesn't come remotely close to the minimal standards for scientific evidence.

I asked you to provide a bulleted list of the evidence you claim exists. Your failure to do so is telling - it simply does not exist.

---

Lots of evidence. I'm providing that. Yes, this reality is a difficult one to process, much less believe. There is no reason to rake me over the coals. But, do as you wish.

First, I think we need to come to an understanding of what evidence is. Here is a definition:

evidence
noun [url=https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/help/codes.html][ U ][/url]

us

/ev..dns/ uk

/ev..dns/

Add to word list
B2
facts, information, documents, etc. that give reason to believe that something is true

What I've come across and have presented over the years is information (evidence). Much of which is simply what people have stated over the years. Think of it as testimony in a court of law i suppose. Now, what you do with that testimony or evidence in the case is up to you. I too want to take a ride on an extraterrestrial craft. Would that be proof though? Yes indeed, entomologist class of '79. But lets make this thread about things related to Roswell. You are free to create a bullet list from the evidence presented here. Again, information is evidence and there is quite a bit of that available and I suspect more to come. gigem

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Interesting, though how in Hades were the Russians going to get a flying saucer to Roswell, then toss it out the back door of an Anatov or something?

---

Pretty massive conspiracy theory huh? Often the simplest explanation is the correct one IMO.

Here is some additional evidence:

1993 AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER HAUT


(1) My name is Walter Haut

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I am retired.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air base serving as the base Public Information Officer. At approximately 9:30 AM on July 8, I received a call from Col. William Blanchard, the base commander, who said he had in his possession a flying saucer or parts thereof. He said it came from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and that the base Intelligence Officer, Major Jesse Marcel, was going to fly the material to Fort Worth.

(5) Col. Blanchard told me to write a news release about the operation and to deliver it to both newspapers and the two radio stations in Roswell. He felt that he wanted the local media to have the first opportunity at the story. I went first to KGFL, then to KSWS, then to the Daily Record and finally to the Morning Dispatch.

(6) The next day, I read in the newspaper that General Roger Ramey in Fort Worth had said the object was a weather balloon.

(7) I believe Col. Blanchard saw the material, because he sounded positive about what the material was. There is no chance that he would have mistaken it for a weather balloon. Neither is their any chance that Major Marcel would have been mistaken.

(8) In 1980, Jesse Marcel told me that the material photographed in Gen. Ramey's office was not the material he had recovered.

(9) I am convinced that the material recovered was some type of craft from outer space.

(10) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.


Signed: Walter G. Haut
5-14-93

Signature witnessed by:
M. Littell (?)



Researchers into the subject believe this is a legitimate document. Perhaps its not. Perhaps he is lying. Perhaps, it's a fabrication. Perhaps being an old guy, his memory is faulty.

What are we to make of it?

Leonard H. Stringfield said:

---

Jabin said:

---

So Spyderman has no facts or data. What he calls "data" is simply poor videos of flaky people with no credibility, who were not witnesses to anything, talking to the camera 40-50 years after the fact.

Leonard/Spyderman, people would take your claims more seriously if you could present a serious case for them. I am open to the possibility that Roswell was something other than what the USAF claims, possibly even aliens. But the more you post the more skeptical I become of your claims.

Aren't you an entomologist? This "data" you keep claiming exists doesn't come remotely close to the minimal standards for scientific evidence.

I asked you to provide a bulleted list of the evidence you claim exists. Your failure to do so is telling - it simply does not exist.

---

Lots of evidence. I'm providing that. Yes, this reality is a difficult one to process, much less believe. There is no reason to rake me over the coals. But, do as you wish.

First, I think we need to come to an understanding of what evidence is. Here is a definition:

evidence
noun [url=https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/help/codes.html][ U ][/url]

us

/ev..dns/ uk

/ev..dns/

Add to word list
B2
facts, information, documents, etc. that give reason to believe that something is true

What I've come across and have presented over the years is information (evidence). Much of which is simply what people have stated over the years. Think of it as testimony in a court of law i suppose. Now, what you do with that testimony or evidence in the case is up to you. I too want to take a ride on an extraterrestrial craft. Would that be proof though? Yes indeed, entomologist class of '79. But lets make this thread about things related to Roswell. You are free to create a bullet list from the evidence presented here. Again, information is evidence and there is quite a bit of that available and I suspect more to come. gigem

---

Most of what you call "evidence", like testimony in a court of law, would be excluded by that court. Most of your so-called testimony is in fact hearsay, speculation, and opinions by non-experts.

You can't even provide a list of evidence that you consider probative or persuasive.

Are you simply trolling the board or do you really believe that silly videos posted on twitter, youtube, and other sites constitute evidence? Don't you realize that anyone can, and many do, buy a cheap camera and mike for their computer and post videos about anything? They're looking for clicks, not serious providers of truth.

You are trying to persuade us. Provide something persuasive.

According to the definition of evidence, information is evidence. And there is a great abundance of that. But lets get beyond that and discuss what this evidence is or isn't saying. At the end of the above post I am trying to encourage some conversation.

So I ask again...what are our thoughts on the fellows statement? Sounds like this could very well have been a death-bed confession of sorts or at least he felt the need to clear the air at a point later in in life.

And/or the statement made that was included in an earlier post:

"There is a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace which is extremely unethical and immoral. We are most definitely not alone."- 36-year-old David Grusch has served in the Air Force for 14 years and is a decorated Afghanistan combat officer who had earlier worked with the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). (2023) He also made stunning claims that go back to the famous Roswell incident. At the time, there were multiple witnesses who said there were bodies recovered from the alleged Roswell aircraft. "You might want to trust some of these witnesses," Grusch said. -July 2023 Congressional hearings

What are we to make of this?

Does any of this mean we are not alone...nope. Just presenting evidence in the form of information to give us some clues. Dots to connect perhaps.

Not my definition my friend:

evidence
noun [url=https://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html][ U ][/url]

UK

/ev..dns/ US

/ev..dns/

Add to word list
B2
facts, information, documents, etc. that give reason to believe that something is true:




I just present the information. More evidence:


Just a few weeks ago, Dr. Shawn Kirkpactrick, the head of the Pentagon's UAP investigation program

told Congress that his team has found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity or objects
that defy the known laws of physics.

"You might want to trust some of these witnesses," Grusch said.
In 1947, an object crashed in the New Mexico desert near the town of Roswell. The U.S. Air Force
recovered material that was described as metallic and rubbery, though the government changed its
story as to what it was, calling it a "flying disc" at first, then a weather or spy balloon.
But he says reports like Roswell date even further back.
"It's long been known that the regime of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini documented numerous UAP.
An internal memo from the Italian Secret Services includes crude drawings of the UAPs.
"In 1933 was the first recovery in Europe and in Magenta, Italy," said Grusch. "They recovered a
partially intact vehicle."
Most believe that the Roswell incident has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, the Air Force published a
report in 1994 to put the issue to rest once and for all.
Grusch has read it.

"That analysis they did was a total hack job," he said. "I mean, even anybody with analytical skills … if
you read it, you can deduce that they're completing multiple situations crash test dummies and
movable dunes. They (the Air Force) is just saying that the townsfolk who personally witnessed it were
totally imagining things. They concocted that whole report just to disinform."

Related evidence here: "Right now, we haven't gone that far back.We're dealing with the recovered UAP that landed in Kingman, AZ in the 50's. We now know the management structure and security control systems and ownership of the crash retrieval. We also know who recovers landed or crashed UAPs under what authorities. We also know that a still-highly classified memo by a Secretary of the USAF in the 1950's is still in effect to maintain the cover on UAPs."

~Chris Mellon, Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton administration. April 20, 2024

Don't get mad at me...get mad at your government. Contact your elected officials...


Is lying and deception a godly trait? Most theologians would characterize it as demonic. -John 8:44

What god is this one nation founded and operated under?

During WW2 my Dad flew DC3 transports all over the world, then was a test pilot, then flew C47's.
He had a number of stories about seeing UFO's - once he was followed halfway across the Pacific Ocean.
Another time, he saw something take off out of the ocean that he could not identify.
When I asked what the Air Force response was to these sightings, he said that he never reported any of it because the info was not wanted and that after the war, when there was a glut of pilots, it was pilots that had reported UFO's who were first to get laid off.
But he never claimed to have seen an alien, nor anything controlled by an alien.

Thanks for jumping here and adding to the thread. Your story of lay-offs reminded me of another account that sorta dove-tails with it. These events occurred back in the 1960s at a couple of ICBM missile silo sites in Montana I think it was...lots of research done into all this:

The security guard called and said, "Sir, there's a glowing red object
hovering right outside the front gate. I've got all the men out here with
their weapons drawn." We lost between 16-18 ICBMs (nuclear tipped Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles) at the same time UFOs were in the area… (A high ranking Air Force officer) said, "Stop the investigation; do no more on this and do not write a final report. I heard that many of the guards that reported the incident were sent off to Vietnam."
Captain Robert Salas, USAF, during a videotaped interview for the Disclosure program.

Apparently ET was able to remotely "switch off" a dozen of our nuclear tipped missiles. I've heard the exact opposite was then done in Russia...several were switched on and readied for launch. There are still some out there that term these visitors the biblical demons..I don't think so when they clearly were sending us memo not to blow ourselves up. A demon would love nothing more to see death and destruction of humans. But that's for another time and board for discussion I suppose.