I know where a "possible" Box 13 is. Maybe somebody knows some details that could determine whether it is or not? I would like to discuss in private.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/go-ask-alice/

Quote:

---

Fifty years after the fact, interest in Texas' most notoriously corrupt election shows no signs of waning, in part because Box 13the tin ballot box that was stuffed with votes for Johnsonremains at large, although it's widely believed to be in the hands of an unidentified local...

Alice residents still greet inquiries about Box 13 with uncomfortable silence. But a few will talk, and each has a theory: It was stashed in a meat locker; it was thrown into the Rio Grande; it was auctioned off by the sheriff years ago. "I received an anonymous letter this summer saying that it was in the Texas State Bank vault," says Jim Wells county judge L. Arnoldo Saenz, "but there wasn't anything to it."...

Ever since, Alice residents have heard their fair share of stories. "For years afterward, the whole country down here was rife with rumor," recalls eighty-year-old Homer Dean, a former Jim Wells county attorney who observed the first of several unsuccessful investigations into the Box 13 scandal...

Since Dean was one of the attorneys who helped present the investigation in 1948 to a local grand jurywhich handed down no indictmentshe has his own ideas about what happened to Box 13 and its contents. But he's saying little, at least for now; an interview he gave to a researcher at the LBJ presidential library will be made public, as per his request, only after his death...

Barrera has thus far found only a fake: a tall, rusted box emblazoned with "13" that is proudly displayed on the counter at the Branding Iron Bar-B-Que House in Alice...

according to one longtime observer of Alice politics, the search for Box 13 is certain to be fruitless. "The ballots were burned that night in the Ranch Motel, and the tally sheet was taken across the border by some of George Parr's men," the source claims. "Box 13 was probably burned along with everything else." And how did the source come by this bit of information? "You can hear it from the horse's mouth."

Which horse? Whose mouth? The source won't say, preferringlike just about everyone in Aliceto savor the secret of Box 13 just a little bit longer....

---

LBJ

This got me thinking of my grandmother, an old school Texas democrat. That mysterious thunder you hear from time to time is "Baba" rolling over in her grave as she sees what has happened to her beloved party. She was a Stevenson supporter and hated LBJ's guts over box 13. She voted for him several times, but still hated his guts,

Thanks for showing that photo. The box I know about does not have "Precinct 13" painted on it. Don't think it ever had any painting on it. It looks similar to boxes shown in this photo:

Oops.

It looks a lot like the box in this photo:

?resize=298%2C229&ssl=1

from this web page:

https://www.roughdiplomacy.com/box-13-scandal/

I just Googled "Box 13 Jim Wells" and that page came up.

My grandfather was part of the reform party or whatever they were called and was on the democratic party committee in Jim Wells county. He and another guy were the ones that saw the ballots and were later separated from them at gun point. They were poll watching Box 13.

His role is in the Caro books, but he would not grant an interview. Those were harsh, dangerous, and rough times. Stevenson flopped and johnson had things liked out. Nobody had shown, state or federal, that they would stand up to the Parr's. Thus the bad guys won. Several people died, several were ruined and the country got the worst, by far, president ever.

Very interesting. Do you recall which Caro book? I might have to get that one. Thanks.

Forget Caro, you need to write a book.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Forget Caro, you need to write a book.

---

Ha, not really. My grandfather is mentioned in "The Means to Ascent", briefly. Caro called him several times to interview him and even went to my grandparents home. But my grandfather would not talk to him other to say he wasn't interested. But he is mentioned quite often in the Newspaper accounts of the times and relating to Box 13.

My grandfather helped found the "Free and Independent" party or movement in Jim Wells county after the war. It was basically bowing up to the Parr machine. Those were complicated local issues as my grandmother, the one who was actually from Alice, had grown up with the Parr's and my great aunt had baby sat them when they were young. A lot of this got started during the war, as my great grandfather, Louis Lowther class of 14' I believe it was, was mayor of Alice and purportedly committed suicide in his office during the war with a gun shot to the back of the head. I don't know the full story as it was not something my grandmother and great aunt's liked to talk about, except for that it involved the Parr's and corruption in Alice and the railroads during the war.

Those were different times, without cell phones, recording devices, or even video and or decent cameras. Proving things conclusively was very difficult and hearsay and testimony were the benchmarks of the time. Both of the previous can be manipulated, purchased, suppressed, and cajoled. When all this was going on, my grandmother and mother got "sent off" for a time due to threats. Buddy Floyd and others were not so lucky. Before and after, Jim Wells county and other places that challenged the "Boss" rule were dangerous places.

The Parr's were for the Parr's and by helping Johnson they were given lots of breathing room and support to keep on being the crooked ass SOB's they were. About 10 years ago I was with a couple of local politicians, and I really don't pay too much attention to US politics as so much of my time has been out of the country, and they were talking about how Johnson's election set South Texas back about 20-30 years in terms of development and investment. More freebies were given out and kids got free lunches, but the playing field was not level and the compadre's and crony's made out like bandits.

Box 13 led to several deaths, several ruination's, and many ill's. My grandfather felt that Stevenson was either bought off or was afraid in going further against Johnson. Stevenson's side did not fight dirty and did not suborn like Johnson and Parr did. At the ground level, in Jim Wells county, to bow up against the Parr's would have led to even more deaths and there really wasn't the political support from Austin or D.C. to do so.

Just a sad state of affairs really. And it's legacy is still around today.

The ballot box I know about was at the Luby residence on Main St. in San Diego, TX in 1950.

Is there still any Parr's around?

Is what happened to your GGF why your GF wouldn't talk to Caro?

No, I don't think so. If I had to speculate, and this is just based off small snippets of conversation and knowing my grandfather, I would say it was because of the fact that nothing was going to come from it nor change nor make the events any different. You have to remember, the Johnson group was able to back down a lot of folks and outmaneuvered all as well.

My grandfather never felt overtly threatened and was willing to bow up to them as he was a well revered somewhat public figure, he was a basketball AA at Arkansas and all SWC in football and at that time was being courted to be a SWC official. He was known in his times. He knew a lot of people, and was somewhat of a wild man himself. He also felt that the Parr's would not go after my grandmother/mother, but he was taking no chances and did not feel that others were as serious about challenging the Parr's. Lots of bravado talk and then closed doors. Also, he had married into the area and was pissed off that true locals were slimy and two faced in the situations.

I don't know about the other Caro books, but according to my grandparents he was awfully generous to Johnson.

Also, my grandparents always maintained that Lady Bird was the evil one, Johnson was a stumbling conniver and opportunist and would never had amounted to squat without ladybird.

Quote:

---

Also, my grandparents always maintained that Lady Bird was the evil one, Johnson was a stumbling conniver and opportunist and would never had amounted to squat without ladybird.

---

Woah, that is a surprise to me. A friend of mine said he treated her like crap even by 1960s husband and wife relationships. Never heard anything but nice things about her but she came from a rich political family.

BQ78 said:

---

Quote:

---

Also, my grandparents always maintained that Lady Bird was the evil one, Johnson was a stumbling conniver and opportunist and would never had amounted to squat without ladybird.

---

Woah, that is a surprise to me. A friend of mine said he treated her like crap even by 1960s husband and wife relationships. Never heard anything but nice things about her but she came from a rich political family.

---

That could very well be the case. I had also read that Johnson was a terrible husband and father, but he was generally terrible at most things. He was the worst president this country has had, bar none. And he got to where he was by deceit, chicanery, violence, and corruption.

What I am relating are recollections from my dearly loved and now long departed grandparents. Easily could I have misunderstood or remembered incorrectly. Also, all of us view our loved ones, especially the ones we look up to and admire, as infallible and all knowing. As we age we realize the humanity in all individuals and that maybe our loved ones were not always right. While I hope that is not the case, it could be. But history has kinda exposed Johnson if we are real about things.

The thing that you have to consider when you look at Johnson and Ladybird is that Johnson was a horrible president and reviled really. But after his presidency, and even into times now, he is not villified near the amount that he legitimately should be. Why? I have read that LB did what she could to ensure his legacy, whatever it might be, and she was not without power. Just look at the Brown & Root legacy that continues to march on today in a different version.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/a-legacy-of-evil/

A little history of San Diego and the Parrs is presented in this article form 1988.

Clinton Manges was a protege of Parr, and I think wanted to be the next Duke of Duval county.

Back in the 80's we were hunting in Freer and my Dad drove over to San Diego and visited with Eva Parr at her house (still to this day I have no idea how my Dad found out where she lived). I also have no idea how he got a visit with her - but my Dad was one of those guys who was great with people and would talk to just about anyone - he was a born salesman. Anyway he comes back to camp with this really cool poster of all the Muy Grande bucks that were shot by George Parr. It's still in the closet in my Dad's house by his gun safe.

My father came to Alice in the early 1930's. He worked at and eventually owned Alice Hardware until he passed in the early 90's.

The lady in charge of Box 13 at Salazar elementary school was my father's bookkeeper. I never met George Pharr, but his brother, Givens Parr was a member of the Alice Gun. My dad was the treasure. When I was in high school and took up skeet shooting, I shot along with Givens Parr almost every Sunday.

The 82 votes that came from Box 13, were all from people buried in the cemetery locates across from the old Buckhorn outdoor theater on the back road to Corpus. I used to ride my bike out to the theater.

In high school, or earlier, I sat in on a criminal trespass case at the Alice courthouse, I lived a block away, against George Pharr. I recall he was charged with coming to the courthouse in Alice from San Diego with a carbine looking for someone to shot.

The article mentions Homer Dean. I went to school with his oldest daughter and he wrote a letter on my behalf, which was required in those days. to attend law school.

BQ68 said:

---

My father came to Alice in the early 1930's. He worked at and eventually owned Alice Hardware until he passed in the early 90's.

The lady in charge of Box 13 at Salazar elementary school was my father's bookkeeper. I never met George Pharr, but his brother, Givens Parr was a member of the Alice Gun. My dad was the treasure. When I was in high school and took up skeet shooting, I shot along with Givens Parr almost every Sunday.

The 82 votes that came from Box 13, were all from people buried in the cemetery locates across from the old Buckhorn outdoor theater on the back road to Corpus. I used to ride my bike out to the theater.

In high school, or earlier, I sat in on a criminal trespass case at the Alice courthouse, I lived a block away, against George Pharr. I recall he was charged with coming to the courthouse in Alice from San Diego with a carbine looking for someone to shot.

The article mentions Homer Dean. I went to school with his oldest daughter and he wrote a letter on my behalf, which was required in those days. to attend law school.

---

Old Homer needed to cull some of his letters of recommendation.

Love me some Dairy Burger and yellow gravy.

BQ68 said:

---

My father came to Alice in the early 1930's. He worked at and eventually owned Alice Hardware until he passed in the early 90's.

The lady in charge of Box 13 at Salazar elementary school was my father's bookkeeper. I never met George Pharr, but his brother, Givens Parr was a member of the Alice Gun. My dad was the treasure. When I was in high school and took up skeet shooting, I shot along with Givens Parr almost every Sunday.

The 82 votes that came from Box 13, were all from people buried in the cemetery locates across from the old Buckhorn outdoor theater on the back road to Corpus. I used to ride my bike out to the theater.

In high school, or earlier, I sat in on a criminal trespass case at the Alice courthouse, I lived a block away, against George Pharr. I recall he was charged with coming to the courthouse in Alice from San Diego with a carbine looking for someone to shot.

The article mentions Homer Dean. I went to school with his oldest daughter and he wrote a letter on my behalf, which was required in those days. to attend law school.

---

I think Homer Dean grew up in Kaufman, Texas and was in Kaufman schools with my dad. I think Mr. Dean wrote a recommendation for me to attend Baylor Law School. I think he did that out of friendship with my dad. It certainly wasn't based on my academic standing at A&M.

BQ68 said:

---

The article mentions Homer Dean. I went to school with his oldest daughter and he wrote a letter on my behalf, which was required in those days. to attend law school.

---

My one distant connection to this thread is that when I came out of grad school at A&M, Coke Stevenson wrote me a letter of recommendation for my first job.