My friend and I both collect German war trophies/memorabilia from WWII. We collect things that soldiers used during the war such as helmets, equipment, uniforms, firearms, etc. I have always been fascinated with the German side...I don't know why. We don't collect political or holocaust items. Our fascination is purely with the German Army and their soldiers.

Anyway, I was curious what you all think about this? What we were discussing was the fact that in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, the veterans and the veterans' children used to outwardly display their trophies. Kids used to "play Army" wearing their dad's German helmet, the vets themselves used to turn helmets into motorcycle helmets, etc.

Back then, people thought it was a point of pride, that they had won the war and it was their inherent right to openly display items with a swastika, because they won it, and they were proud that they fought for their country and defeated the enemy.

As items pass from generation to generation, I think society has become sensitized to collecting items with swastikas because of the terrible things that the symbol represented (war crimes, holocaust, etc.) But I say, alternatively, it is still a war trophy, tells a story, and still carries important history with it.

What do you all think?

The woosification of society is no reason to ignore history and no reason to worry about what anyone else thinks. Collect what you like.

Collect what you like, but I would avoid things like the Blutfahne.

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Collect what you like, but I would avoid things like the Blutfahne.

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I actually have a few of various sizes. All of them have been bought from Veterans' estates. One of them is signed by a vet and dated June '45. I'm guessing he bought it as a souvenir after the Nazis quit.

I would lump Nazi war trophies with Civil War and Revolutionary War trophies. They are cool reminders of important times in American history.

Probably not a good idea to collect KKK and Eugenics memorabilia (if that kind of thing it exists).

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Collect what you like, but I would avoid things like the Blutfahne.

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I actually have a few of various sizes. All of them have been bought from Veterans' estates. One of them is signed by a vet and dated June '45. I'm guessing he bought it as a souvenir after the Nazis quit.

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I mean the one personally handled by Hitler, lol.

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Collect what you like, but I would avoid things like the Blutfahne.

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I actually have a few of various sizes. All of them have been bought from Veterans' estates. One of them is signed by a vet and dated June '45. I'm guessing he bought it as a souvenir after the Nazis quit.

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I mean the one personally handled by Hitler, lol.

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That would be worth a few million to a collector I am sure. Very iconic piece in the German machine!

Go for it.

In short I'd say collect what you want. As long as the focus is on the historical nature of the items then there is no harm at all. Now, if someone ends up with an admiration for the National Socialist regime and collects items like fan memorabilia, then they have crossed the line.

For example, Prof. Arnold Krammer from the history department at A&M has a huge collection of odds and ends from the Nazi regime including lots of militaria. He believes it is important to be able to show students real things from the period that they can touch and handle for themselves. This helps students connect with something that is real rather than just listen to his lecture or read it in a book. However none of the many items in his collection are treated as "special" or "rare" even though many are hard to find. Prof. Krammer simply sees them as one would a tool in a workshop, they are meant to be used in the classroom. He once told me that he had a student in his Nazi Germany class some years ago who wore an SS belt buckle everyday. When Prof. Krammer asked him why, the student justified having something from the SS as part of his daily wardrobe because "it's rare." Prof. Krammer responded by pulling out a bag full of buckles from the Nazi regime he had in a drawer and dumped it on his desk. He told the student these items weren't that rare and regardless, it was ridiculous to wear something like that because it looked like you were a fan of the SS and the Nazis. And if that was the case, then the student had a serious problem.

As long as you remember that the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust and treat items related to it judiciously, then you are fine.

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What do you all think?

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We ought always to remember.

We ought always to hold and to touch the tangible things that call to mind the sacrifice of our fathers and grandfathers to wipe from the Earth the evil of that age.

We should hand these same things to our children, to remind them that evil is real and challenge them to speak truth unapologetically in the defense of human dignity in the age to which they are called.

Today, May 3, is the anniversary of the liberation of Dachau. I went to Dachau and to Normandy as an undergraduate at A&M. Those experiences, the touching of things that bore witness to that age, changed my life. Things that we touch are real in ways that stories are not. I can never think about that time without being reminded of the purpose to which Providence has called the American people.

The darkness of Europe was real. I saw it, and I didn't know what the stories meant until I touched it.

My older daughter understands that her great-grandfathers fought a great war to wipe hatred from the face of Europe. If seeing an iron cross will make that memory and its meaning more real to her, then I need to go buy an iron cross.

Scars are useful things. The tools of the Nazi's are the scars of Christian civilization.

Of course you can wear all the WWII Japanese Military equipment you want to and no one will think twice about it... except if you are wearing a katana.... then they think you are a ninja. They only killed 4 Million Chinese and butchered untold thousands of western prisoners.

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I would lump Nazi war trophies with Civil War and Revolutionary War trophies. They are cool reminders of important times in American history.

Probably not a good idea to collect KKK and Eugenics memorabilia (if that kind of thing it exists).

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That is way too much lumping.

I see no issue with this.

As a hobby I build scale model aircraft, many of which are German. I have Messerschmitts, ****e Wulfs, Heinkels, Dorniers, Junkers and others, all as historically accurate as possible. They all include swastikas, as they should. I display many in a cabinet in my living room. I have never once had someone visiting my place tell me that the presence of those swastikas is offensive, and if someone was to say that, I would tell them it is history and as such should never be erased lest we repeat that history.

This collection you are describing does not make you a proponent of Naziism.

The main problem with collecting Nazi Militaria is that over 90% of it is fake. You have to really, really know your stuff or you will get burned big time.

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The main problem with collecting Nazi Militaria is that over 90% of it is fake. You have to really, really know your stuff or you will get burned big time.

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I'm very knowledgeable. It takes a lot of self study and a library of reference books, half as valuable as my collection!

My grandfather brought back two two of the red arm bands with a black swastika on white background sewn on the bands. I have them and they are a treasured gift.

Only sensitive to the PC asses.
If you enjoy collecting Nazi memorabilia that's fine.
I see a number of ww2 German helmets when I go to antique stores....expensive too.

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As long as you remember that the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust

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That's untrue. Were they all ultimately fighting under the banner of an evil regime. Yes. Were all German soldiers politically Nazis? No. Did all German soldiers commit war crimes associated with the Holocaust? No.

Very true.

The Wehrmacht, the SS, SS Police, and German Air Force units were all quite different.

For example I believe it was the SS Police outfits that did the majority of the war crimes early in the war while the Wehrmacht's record is much much cleaner than that of the SS. Not perfect but cleaner.

And German pilots I have read were much less likely to shoot a man in a parachute than most of the allies and especially the Russians.

Even considering the Holocaust, one could make the argument that the Japanese were at least as barbaric as the Germans.

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Very true.

The Wehrmacht, the SS, SS Police, and German Air Force units were all quite different.

For example I believe it was the SS Police outfits that did the majority of the war crimes early in the war while the Wehrmacht's record is much much cleaner than that of the SS. Not perfect but cleaner.

And German pilots I have read were much less likely to shoot a man in a parachute than most of the allies and especially the Russians.

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The Wehrmacht did all sorts of bad ****, but there has been some whitewashing and denial, yes. All those Russian war prisoners didn't die at SS hands. Were there innocent soldiers? Certainly, but there is also a good deal of denial.

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Even considering the Holocaust, one could make the argument that the Japanese were at least as barbaric as the Germans.

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What would be the point of making that argument?

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Even considering the Holocaust, one could make the argument that the Japanese were at least as barbaric as the Germans.

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What would be the point of making that argument?

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I had no particular point in mind, other than it seems ok to collect Japanese stuff. It's in antique shops all over the Philippines, for example.

To the same point the Stalin killed millions and people still openly worship the soviets.

As usual the truth hides somewhere in the middle, in the gray area. Vocal people on both ends of the spectrum make strange claims colored by their agenda or bias. One side says that MOST Germans outside of the SS were innocent, honorable men fighting for their country, unaware of the evils being perpetrated by their regime. The other says that all Germans were very aware of and willing participants in the Holocaust, including ordinary Heer forces who raped and pillaged their way across Eastern Europe with merciless joy. But, history isn't a comic book and broad generalizations and judgements concerning millions of individuals of various backgrounds are always misleading.

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To the same point the Stalin killed millions and people still openly worship the soviets.

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Stalin was a terrible man.


I apologize for trying to argue above. I totally get these viewpoints and don't want to rIle people.

I didn't even realize you were "trying to argue". No problem here.....

I don't blame you op. Like them or not they were fascinating. Their level of technology, between their tanks, aircraft and some of their small arms is admirable to anyone with an appreciation of military weapons. They had some slick uniforms too. WW2 was terrible across all fronts and was not as clear cut as the masses believe. Our faithful soviet allies were every bit as brutal as the nazis and killed millions of people, and we dropped nukes and firebombs on civilian cities. The worst part about the Germans was they kicked the whole thing off and the way they went about things was sickeningly evil(although the Japanese were doing terrible things in China even before that)

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I don't blame you op. Like them or not they were fascinating. Their level of technology, between their tanks, aircraft and some of their small arms is admirable to anyone with an appreciation of military weapons. They had some slick uniforms too. WW2 was terrible across all fronts and was not as clear cut as the masses believe. Our faithful soviet allies were every bit as brutal as the nazis and killed millions of people, and we dropped nukes and firebombs on civilian cities. The worst part about the Germans was they kicked the whole thing off and the way they went about things was sickeningly evil(although the Japanese were doing terrible things in China even before that)

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They were, especially the officers ... few know of their secret: Uniforms by Schotzie.

Schotzie was an elderly designing gentleman with a deft touch in black and silver fabric and with a zest for colourfully velveted truncheons. Schotzie never joined the Party; he was the party.

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As long as you remember that the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust

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That's untrue. Were they all ultimately fighting under the banner of an evil regime. Yes. Were all German soldiers politically Nazis? No. Did all German soldiers commit war crimes associated with the Holocaust? No.

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My point here is that the all parts of the German military during the Nazi regime were political. The Heer, Luftwaffe, Kreigsmarine along with every other part (police battalions, SS, support units), were used as political instruments. Meaning that you can't pick out one part and say it wasn't part of Nazi politics because everything was connected. As Clausewitz wrote, war is an extension of politics and the Nazi weltanschauung (world view) revolved around war.

No part was "clean" of the crimes of the National Socialist regime. I'm not saying all soldiers were Nazis, but they all saw or participated in war crimes (Holocaust and/or others). There are absolutely varying degrees of culpability, but the vast majority played a part. Just read the literature. Wolfram Wette has a great book on the myth of the clean Wehrmacht you ought to check out.

There was a famous exhibit in Germany organized by the Hamburg Institute for Social Research in the 1990s that focused on the war crimes of the Wehrmacht. This was really controversial in Germany because many people had clung to the idea of a clean Wehrmacht for so long that it had become part of the popular narrative. The American government is partly to blame for this. During the rearmament debates of the early 1950s, one of the major issues facing the US and the FRG was the image and legacy of the German soldier (for obvious reasons). So to help "clean" the German soldier so West Germany could rearm and help with the defense of Europe, Eisenhower made a public statement in Frankfurt in 1951 while he was Supreme Allied Commander in Europe (SACEUR). He basically said what many seem to think, the majority of German soldiers and officers did their duty honorably and should not be lumped in with the criminals. Germans embraced this and the myth was born.

I love collecting "Blutfahnes" and "Eugenics memorabilia"

Your observation is undoubtedly true; that the Wehrmacht could have operated constantly in the same theaters as the einsatzgruppen (sp), the Gestapo, the fighting SS, etc. and have avoided contamination -- in more than one instance serious contamination -- is impossible.

That the German High Command created and manipulated an army dedicated to the highest principles of historic European warfare, except as those principals translated to order, discipline and ruthless efficiency, is not in, my interpretation, the assertion.

The orientation of the population for many decades running to centuries, toward prejudice against Jews, etc., was a fact of life in, for example, Poland and Russia, also; in fact, most or all of Eastern Europe. This is not to say such a policy was not embraced by the army/armies, but armies are drawn from the population; the sale was not a hard one, and was certainly not made -- even by the time of the establishment of the Brownshirts -- with a contemplation of the death camps and their attendant atrocities in mind.

It is neither desirable or possible, as pointed out above, to absolve the Wehrmacht or its High Command of a significant share of culpability in some of the worst excesses of WWII in Europe. Given this unassailable reality, there nevertheless existed a generally wide gulf between the normal functions, and functionaries, of Keitel and Jodel (sp) and those of Himmler and Heydrich

One of my family's most cherished heirlooms is my great-grandfathers favorite saddle. He had it custom made in the early 1900's and had a swastika embossed on the back of the cantle because back before the Nazis the swastika was considered a symbol of good luck.
Because it had the swastika on it the saddle stayed tucked away in the back of the saddle shed for decades until my uncle cleaned it up and put it on display in his den. He has to explain the reason for the swastika to just about everyone who goes in his den.

The swastika was used in various forms by many cultures and religions for thousands of years before being appropriated by the Nazi Party. It is still used by some today.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/symbol-swastika-and-its-12000-year-old-history-001312