Ok, I know TLDNR, but I wanted to give examples from as many EYEWITNESSES as possible!

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This is the third in a series of articles on events in the morgue at the National Naval Medical Center (NNMC), Bethesda, MD, on the evening of November 22, 1963. The first, published on this Website on May 20, 2009 [1] -- JFK 11/22/63: Body/Casket Chicanery at the Bethesda Morgue -- showed that the president's body entered the morgue at two separate times in different caskets, based on eyewitness accounts. The first entry was at 6:35/6:45 PM, when the body was in a plain shipping casket. The second entry was at approximately 8:00 PM, when the body was in the bronze, ceremonial casket in which it had originally been placed at Parkland Hospital.

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http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pre-AutopsyPhotographs/

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Horne then showed a page from the HSCA's interview of Paul O'Connor.(MD 64). "O'Connor said that the casket that arrived was a pink shipping casket. He [O'Connor] said that the body was in a body bag and the head was wrapped in a sheet. He recalls seeing a massive head wound and a gaping wound in the neck. O'Connor said he was shocked at what he saw. He said the head had nothing left in the cranium but splattered brain matter."

Remember the casket that left Dallas was an 800 pound plus bronze casket. O'Connor has consistently stated at Bethesda JFK was in a cheap pinkish grey shipping casket and it arrives at Bethesda in a body bag whereas it left Parkland in sheets.

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http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/horne/Backes2b.html

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On November 22, 1963, Dennis David was serving as “Chief of the Day” at the Navy medical school at Bethesda. According to an official ARRB interview conducted by Horne on February 14, 1997. According to David, At around 6:30 p.m., He received a phone call stating that “your visitor is on the way: you will need some people to offload. ” David rounded up 7 or 8 sailors to carry in the casket and a few minutes later, a black hearse drove up. Several men in blue suits got out of the hearse, along with the driver and passenger, both of whom were wearing white (operating room) smocks. Under David’s supervision, the sailors offloaded the casket and carried it into the morgue.

What did the casket look like? David stated that it was a simple, gray shipping casket similar to the ones commonly used in the Vietnam War.

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http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/kennedy-casket-conspiracy/

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“Body removed from metal shipping casket at NSNH at Bethesda.” The person who wrote that notation was Joseph E. Hagan, the supervisor in charge of the Gawler’s embalming team for the Kennedy autopsy and who later became president of Gawler’s. When the ARRB interviewed Hagan in 1996, he stated that he had not personally witnessed the president’s body being brought into the morgue in the shipping casket but that someone whom he could not recall had advised him of that fact

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In 1979, Lifton interviewed a man named Floyd Riebe, who was a medical photography student present at Kennedy’s autopsy when he was an E-5 Navy corpsman stationed at Bethesda. According to Horne, Riebe stated that Kennedy’s casket was not a viewing casket because the lid did not open halfway down. Riebe also confirmed that Kennedy’s body was in a rubberized body bag.

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Jerrol Custer was an E-4 Navy corpsman who served as an X-ray technician for the Kennedy autopsy. According to Horne, Custer told Lifton in repeated interviews that Kennedy’s body was in a body bag. Custer also told Lifton that he saw the black hearse that brought in the shipping casket. He stated that he saw two different caskets in the Bethesda morgue, one of which was bronze. In fact, X-ray technician Jerrol Custer, one of the enlisted men who witnessed Kennedy’s body being brought into the morgue in the shipping casket, saw Mrs. Kennedy entering the main lobby of the hospital as Custer was heading upstairs to process X-rays of Kennedy’s body.

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Ed Reed, an E-4 Navy corpsman, also served as an X-ray technician for the Kennedy autopsy. In an ARRB deposition in 1997, Reed testified that Kennedy’s casket was a “typical aluminum military casket.” He said that there were Marines present at the time the casket was delivered. He recalled that the president arrived in a see-through clear plastic bag, not in a standard body bag.

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James Jenkins, another E-4 Navy corpsman who served as an autopsy technician for Kennedy’s autopsy, told Lifton in 1979 that Kennedy’s casket was not ornamental and that it was plain — “awful clean and simple” and “not something you’d expect a president to be in

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We also have two written reports — Sergeant Boyajian’s report and the Gawler’s report — that were filed contemporaneously with the autopsy, both of which confirm early arrival of Kennedy’s body in the shipping casket. We also have a member of the Gawler’s embalming team stating that he saw a body bag in the morgue.

So, what do we have here? We have eight Marine and Navy enlisted personnel who were performing their assigned duties on November 22, 1963, and whose statements unequivocally establish that Kennedy’s body was delivered to the Bethesda morgue at 6:35 p.m. in a shipping casket and in a body bag rather than in the heavy, ornamental, bronze casket into which it had been placed at Parkland Hospital, wrapped in white sheets.

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http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/kennedy-casket-conspiracy/

So far, we have bronze, pink, grey and aluminum.

Somebody is wrong.

I don't know what these people are talking about. When I saw him he was wrapped in bubble wrap and had an arrow still lodged in the side of his head.

My uncle was stationed at Bethesda at the time and was offered an opportunity to assist with the autopsy.

He's still thankful that he didn't.

Sealed room at parkland

So EIGHT different navy personel were wrong on the casket? Ok, right. I'm curious how many cases you won as a prosecuter when the defense showed up with eight witnesses, all of which were good upstanding men? I bet you couldn't win the case if eight junkies all stood up and testified for the defense, let alone navy men....
Also, you are being somewhat disingenuous when you say "any fool can tell you that eye witness testimony is often worthless." Sure, if you are dealing with one eyewitness, but several eyewitnesses seeing the same thing is completely different from a single eyewitness.

I think I know why your career as a prosecuter was short lived!



[This message has been edited by Smithjg (edited 2/3/2014 5:35p).]

I own / have read dozens of books on the assassination and for years thought there was a conspiracy. I eventually decided that LHO acted alone, but the case of the gray shipping casket has always been a sticking point for me. I can't figure out how this many good witnesses saw the same thing. One or two people seeing it is one thing, but eight or nine? Despite what the former prosecutor says, eight witnesses seeing the same thing Carries some weight.

And?

I think the fact they can't decide between several different styles and colors gives good weight to what the prosecutor says. People remember stuff wrong all the time, people can even be convinced their recollection is incorrect too, when it is not.

Bronze, pink, grey and aluminum, as Canyon said above. Someone is obviously wrong.

Either way, and? What difference does it make in who killed him and why?

Would it be unique to transfer a body between casket type for shipping between death and final burial? I doubt it.

It's a whole bunch of nothing and really unclear as to why it's important to anything anyway.

[This message has been edited by p_bubel (edited 2/4/2014 7:32p).]

Ok you convinced me. Thanks

It's always been my theory that the conspiracy industry is based off the simple problem that people don't want to believe a lone nut could kill a President.

Is it possible more was involved? Sure, anything is possible. But it ain't likely. What's the line, don't assign things to malice that can be assigned to incompetence?

Bingo for Canyon. (as usual

I'm not going to comment on the "invasion of the body snatcher's" stuff, however i would like to add that there is a wealth of information out there that lends itself to a "conspiracy"! Like some have said, there is such a cottage idustry when it comes to this topic it's unreal. LBJ, The Mob, The CIA, The accidental SS agent theory (make it stop).....Some of it is laughable. But, FACT is, crucial documents were withheld from both the WC and the HSCA by both the CIA and the FBI. To me, (and I've said this before and no one has commented), IF it's such a cut and dry case of Oswald acting alone, then why were so many documents about the case sealed for over 50 years? Not to mention, the thousands that are still sealed (mostly CIA)....you have to wade through alot of bs, but there are some GREAT books out there, especially Legacy of Secrecy and Hidden History of the jFK Assassanition by Lamar Waldron. These two books are VERY document based, as more and more files are released.
In the end, I don't know why (on a history forum) this is such a "polarizing" issue, with so many personal attacks. If you choose to believe in a probable conspiracy, then so be it, or vice-versa. For me, if people like Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken ODonnell (who were riding behind Kennedy) say shots came from the front, then that makes me want to delve deeper into the topic! When the Presidents brother tells the Director of the CIA that "I think one of your people killed my brother"....and Bobby was privy to much of the info, I want to delve deeper, etc. Here is a great link to some recent info on Waldron's books:
http://www.mmdnewswire.com/jfk-assassination-files-130311.html

The FBI covered things up becasue they had their eye on Oswald and they were embarrassed when in the middle of watching him he shoots the President.

"78....You are very much correct that the FBI didn't want to reveal they had been watching Oswald (see agent James Hosty) and certainly tried to cover that up. HOWEVER, that only scratches the surface.......the FBI controlled the WC investigation and DID NOT supply them with crucial evidence in many areas...Ruby's mob connections, information tied to organized crime, the attempted assassinations of JFK in Chicago (in which another "LONE NUT" was aprehended named Thomas Vallee...he recently worked in an office building overlooking the route, had been handing out "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets, and 17 other parallels to Oswald...when arrested he had a rifle and ammo in his car) and Tampa (another "Lone Nut" with similarities to Oswald named Gilbert Policarpio Lopez). The FBI did not supply the Chicago and Tampa assassination information to the HSCA either.
This is from the HSCA's report: (their own words)
"The committee concluded that the FBI's information supplied to the Warren Commission was deficient in the areas most worthy of suspicion: including organized crime, pro and anti-castro cubans, and associations of individuals connecting Lee Harvey Oswald with Jack Ruby."
(HSCA Final Report page 242)
Of course the HSCA determined that JFK was probably killed by a conspiracy. (and of course I know that SOME of that came from a supposed "dictabelt" recording of 4 shots that recent evidence points to being false).....however, the HSCA determined independent from the "dictabelt" that both Marcello and Trafficante had the motive, means and opportunity to assassinate JFK! (their wording)

And I havent even scratched the surface of what the CIA withheld from the WC, the HSCA and the AARB!

Well said Big. The House Select Committee concluded Ruby had connections with Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana and Joe Campisi, a Dallas organized crime figure who was an associate of Carlos Marcello, the longtime New Orleans crime boss who also controlled Texas. There are a lot of parallels between Oswald, Ruby and the mob, that were "overlooked" by the WC that still bring about questions. Much like Hillarys famous " who cares" comment, a large number of people still care. I was three when it happened and I STILL CARE.