Turning 64 soon and joined the gym 7 days ago. No lifting for 5 years. None. When I stopped I was 59 and 210 pounds and free bench press max was 240. I had trained hard and fairly smart for 3 straight years and juiced a lot but tried to do so without being too overboard but looking back it was a fairly intense stack.

Been on 200 mg Test for the first month (I had low T) then have been on 400 mg Test/week (200 mg twice weekly) for the last month anticipating my gym membership coming up.

My routine for the past 7 days is 1) Chest/Triceps 2) Abs & legs 3) Back & Biceps, then 1,2,3, with day 7 off.
45 minutes of light then building the next day with yesterday being fairly intense. Goal is to go 1 hour intensely each time after say 6 weeks of building up. Doing a 12, 8, 5, 3, 1 (or to failure). Monitoring for Rhab which got me 5 years ago and a 2 night hospital stay.

I'm more into strength training than mass. I'm 5'11" and 181 pounds. My thoughts are staying with 400 Test for another month then dropping to 250 per week. Hard for a stranger to answer but 1) is that too much Test? Maybe 200 should be tops? 2) Would a 1,2,3, off, 1,2,3, off be a better strategy at my age? I need to add some cardio, maybe walking with a weighted vest. Goal of 200 grams of daily protein and 5 mg creatine and 10 mg BCAA with 8-9 hours of sleep.

TIA

To me that is my ideal height/weight combo. Good luck.

You may want to stop into the weightlifting thread.

There is a poster there that may be able to chime in

https://texags.com/forums/48/topics/3361390

Gwt the book New Rules of Lifting. Easy and good read and think it has some good stuff for you.

BartInLA said:

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Turning 64 soon and joined the gym 7 days ago. No lifting for 5 years. None. When I stopped I was 59 and 210 pounds and free bench press max was 240. I had trained hard and fairly smart for 3 straight years and juiced a lot but tried to do so without being too overboard but looking back it was a fairly intense stack.

Been on 200 mg Test for the first month (I had low T) then have been on 400 mg Test/week (200 mg twice weekly) for the last month anticipating my gym membership coming up.

My routine for the past 7 days is 1) Chest/Triceps 2) Abs & legs 3) Back & Biceps, then 1,2,3, with day 7 off.
45 minutes of light then building the next day with yesterday being fairly intense. Goal is to go 1 hour intensely each time after say 6 weeks of building up. Doing a 12, 8, 5, 3, 1 (or to failure). Monitoring for Rhab which got me 5 years ago and a 2 night hospital stay.

I'm more into strength training than mass. I'm 5'11" and 181 pounds. My thoughts are staying with 400 Test for another month then dropping to 250 per week. Hard for a stranger to answer but 1) is that too much Test? Maybe 200 should be tops? 2) Would a 1,2,3, off, 1,2,3, off be a better strategy at my age? I need to add some cardio, maybe walking with a weighted vest. Goal of 200 grams of daily protein and 5 mg creatine and 10 mg BCAA with 8-9 hours of sleep.

TIA

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What are you taking to up your testosterone specifically? Are we talking TRT or gear? What are your current T levels after you have started your therapy/administering your test? Not an expert in these areas but this could help for those that do know.

Also, shoulders on arms day or chest and back?

bam02 said:

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You were juicing at 59?

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Why? I know a lot of guys on gear in their 50s and 60s. And a lot on TRT. Luckily, at 51, I naturally have very high testosterone, but I get why folks who take gear do. I just do not want the side effects...And I have UC. Probably not a good idea for me to get on gear. For what? to weight 225 at the same BF% (I am below 10 currently). Plus, I do this stuff for fun and therapy. If I am not the biggest cat in the gym, so be it. And I train with Gods, super heros and mutants at my gym. LOL, there's a lot of gear users around me. Many 35-60+ years old. Honestly, wouldn't want it any other way. Regular gyms just don't have the same level of intensity. But, I digress...

That said, I assume most on here know TRT isn't gear. It ups the testosterone levels to what one would naturally have. Gear is different. Using gear to up your test alone is like using a thermo nuke to hit a factory when a smart bomb would do just fine and not leave the whole city in dust. Gear works to get one BIG depending on your genetics and lifting skills and will help with strength but it sounds like only so much in that department, again depending on the individual. Never been worth it for me, BUT I don't judge. Just make sure you get good advice on usage. and use JUST the amount that gets the job done, test your blood often and find and use the safer protocols out there. Likely can save your life. But is no guarantee.

NoahAg said:

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Do your Affliction shirts still fit?

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We have a trainer that wears Affliction stuff all the time at our gym. Cut off sleeves. The whole 9 yards. probably a couple of years older then me. He is a nice guy. Just a bit intense looking but good dude. I mean, he'd probably never start a fight with Jeff Nippard or anything. Just has his style.

Well, I know there was an edit on the OP and I don't remember exactly what it originally said, but pretty sure it alluded to gear and not TRT. The way it's worded now definitely sounds like a TRT regimen.

Yes, I know there are plenty of people in their 50s and 60s that take anabolic steroids but I think that is dumb. I don't have any problem with somebody doing TRT at any age. I mean, truthfully, it's not my business anyway, but this is a message board.

Capitol Ag said:

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NoahAg said:

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Do your Affliction shirts still fit?

---

We have a trainer that wears Affliction stuff all the time at our gym. Cut off sleeves. The whole 9 yards. probably a couple of years older then me. He is a nice guy. Just a bit intense looking but good dude. I mean, he'd probably never start a fight with Jeff Nippard or anything. Just has his style.

---

Man that Jeff Nippard video was WILD

BartInLA said:

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Turning 64 soon and joined the gym 7 days ago. No lifting for 5 years. None. When I stopped I was 59 and 210 pounds and free bench press max was 240. I had trained hard and fairly smart for 3 straight years and juiced a lot but tried to do so without being too overboard but looking back it was a fairly intense stack.

Been on 200 mg Test for the first month (I had low T) then have been on 400 mg Test/week (200 mg twice weekly) for the last month anticipating my gym membership coming up.

My routine for the past 7 days is 1) Chest/Triceps 2) Abs & legs 3) Back & Biceps, then 1,2,3, with day 7 off.
45 minutes of light then building the next day with yesterday being fairly intense. Goal is to go 1 hour intensely each time after say 6 weeks of building up. Doing a 12, 8, 5, 3, 1 (or to failure). Monitoring for Rhab which got me 5 years ago and a 2 night hospital stay.

I'm more into strength training than mass. I'm 5'11" and 181 pounds. My thoughts are staying with 400 Test for another month then dropping to 250 per week. Hard for a stranger to answer but 1) is that too much Test? Maybe 200 should be tops? 2) Would a 1,2,3, off, 1,2,3, off be a better strategy at my age? I need to add some cardio, maybe walking with a weighted vest. Goal of 200 grams of daily protein and 5 mg creatine and 10 mg BCAA with 8-9 hours of sleep.

TIA

---

I have no advice to offer on the hormones part- I don't even know my own test level

But- I would say with everything you're doing, the 10 mg BCAA's are adding absolutely nothing to the overall picture. You're getting plenty of protein already, and you're on hormonal supplementation, and getting rest, AND pushing to failure regularly....yeah, I dont see how some more branched chain amino acids will add anything at all

bam02 said:

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Well, I know there was an edit on the OP and I don't remember exactly what it originally said, but pretty sure it alluded to gear and not TRT. The way it's worded now definitely sounds like a TRT regimen.

Yes, I know there are plenty of people in their 50s and 60s that take anabolic steroids but I think that is dumb. I don't have any problem with somebody doing TRT at any age. I mean, truthfully, it's not my business anyway, but this is a message board.

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I think it was Thomas Sowell who said, "there are no solutions, only trade-offs". If one wants to absolutely maximize their gains (obviously once they have reached a maximum in their training naturally and they need or truly want to reach that next level), gear is the next answer and, yes, it comes with a price. That price being side effects initially and potentially a loss of years on your life. Granted, every individual is different and may present with low side effects and live a long natural life. But I agree, it's playing with fire. Hence why I've never gone to the "dark side". And that is saying something given how long and how much I love training. But, honestly, a lot of that is b/c of the advice of friends who have been on gear. Most will tell you, it is no small thing and isn't always fun.

My advice to t he guy is to see what you could do off gear. Get TRT is you need to up your hormones to be healthy if you're low T, but hold off on gear. You aren't a pro body builder or pro power lifter. there just isn't a need to be on gear. At our ages, looking good, feeling good and good health are the main drivers. Hell, for anyone really that isn't an IFBB pro.

True Anomaly said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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NoahAg said:

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Do your Affliction shirts still fit?

---

We have a trainer that wears Affliction stuff all the time at our gym. Cut off sleeves. The whole 9 yards. probably a couple of years older then me. He is a nice guy. Just a bit intense looking but good dude. I mean, he'd probably never start a fight with Jeff Nippard or anything. Just has his style.

---

Man that Jeff Nippard video was WILD

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Agree. I love Jeff and his content. That was a dick move by that guy. He (the trainer who hit Jeff) is a washed up former IFBB pro who never did much on the body building circuit apparently. Obviously, he presents one of the standard effects of roids, roid rage. Not cool at all...

True Anomaly said:

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BartInLA said:

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Turning 64 soon and joined the gym 7 days ago. No lifting for 5 years. None. When I stopped I was 59 and 210 pounds and free bench press max was 240. I had trained hard and fairly smart for 3 straight years and juiced a lot but tried to do so without being too overboard but looking back it was a fairly intense stack.

Been on 200 mg Test for the first month (I had low T) then have been on 400 mg Test/week (200 mg twice weekly) for the last month anticipating my gym membership coming up.

My routine for the past 7 days is 1) Chest/Triceps 2) Abs & legs 3) Back & Biceps, then 1,2,3, with day 7 off.
45 minutes of light then building the next day with yesterday being fairly intense. Goal is to go 1 hour intensely each time after say 6 weeks of building up. Doing a 12, 8, 5, 3, 1 (or to failure). Monitoring for Rhab which got me 5 years ago and a 2 night hospital stay.

I'm more into strength training than mass. I'm 5'11" and 181 pounds. My thoughts are staying with 400 Test for another month then dropping to 250 per week. Hard for a stranger to answer but 1) is that too much Test? Maybe 200 should be tops? 2) Would a 1,2,3, off, 1,2,3, off be a better strategy at my age? I need to add some cardio, maybe walking with a weighted vest. Goal of 200 grams of daily protein and 5 mg creatine and 10 mg BCAA with 8-9 hours of sleep.

TIA

---

I have no advice to offer on the hormones part- I don't even know my own test level

But- I would say with everything you're doing, the 10 mg BCAA's are adding absolutely nothing to the overall picture. You're getting plenty of protein already, and you're on hormonal supplementation, and getting rest, AND pushing to failure regularly....yeah, I dont see how some more branched chain amino acids will add anything at all

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Agree. Save that money on that...

Capitol Ag said:

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My advice to t he guy is to see what you could do off gear. Get TRT is you need to up your hormones to be healthy if you're low T, but hold off on gear. You aren't a pro body builder or pro power lifter. there just isn't a need to be on gear. At our ages, looking good, feeling good and good health are the main drivers. Hell, for anyone really that isn't an IFBB pro.

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This right here. This should be stickied to every weightlifting thread there is.

Its easy to get swept up in the strength or aesthetics part of this. Its fun to chase numbers and/or physique...mix in some competition among lifters and yourself...its a potent combination.

But man, I'm not sure I've heard anyone say..."man, Im sure glad I did gear" (when asked over the long term).

Key concepts/techniques to recovery? I've always focused on strength over mass.

After a several years break I joined a gym again and my PR on the machine bench press (no big weights at PF) was 160 the first day back. Turning 64 next month. 3 years ago it was 240.

I'm trying to find that sweet spot of training like a beast yet not overtraining. In the past while busting it I've had 9 straight weeks before with no strength gains. I actually went down. It was very discouraging.

Thursday I went high weights to failure doing 1-6 reps. Friday I was sore to the bone. In the three weeks before I started, my chest press 1 Rep Max dropped from 160 to 140.

Here are my 2 main questions.
1. If you don't have 1 rep PB that improve after X weeks does that almost guarantee you are overtraining? What is X?

2. Key ideas for recovery? So many but my guess is I'm not eating protein CONSISTENTLY. At 180 pounds, I'm aiming for 175 g of protein and think I should break it up into 5 meals. Maybe 10 g of creatine taken 12 hours apart in 5 g doses.

This seems to be a challenging hobby. So much unknown and false bro science and of course genetics differ and there's the age factor.

I never (being honest) really did legs and barely abs. Today I realize leg strength is critical to overall strength/growth and I don't want any gut. On Mounjaro (Type II diabetes) I got down to 152. Too low. Looked 10 years older BUT it was nice not to have any gut (no developed abs just not a gut). Personally I want defined abs but let's see if my actions matches my words. Flatter abs impress women more than bigger arms typically (I'm married but still). Cardi counts. Blood profile is important. There's like 48 metrics lol. It can get overwhelming. Having practical strength, longevity, and aesthetics are a top three.

When you are competing against yourself it's pretty cool but after the initial gains, it's complicated and difficult in my opinion. I'm trying to understand the science underlying strength training and the idea of not doing nervous system damage while strength training. Want to develop a list of simple top 10 principles.

I have a few thoughts. I'll preface this with that I personally devote much more of my training towards hypertrophy than strength. But I think I've learned quite a bit about how to balance the two

If you're stalling out on lifts, I highly encourage you to switch up your exercises and choose something else to progress on for that specific muscle group. So for chest, find something else you would enjoy that you could progress on. And try some different training modalites that target that muscle area- so if you're doing a machine chest press, then try something like cable chest flys that you could take to a higher rep range before you fail. This way you accumulate VOLUME which will help grow that specific muscle group better. Muscle grows not just because of getting higher numbers on a specific exercise, but the actual muscle gets continuously stimulated close to failure, forcing it to adapt and increase in size. And you can do this with a combination of increasing strength on a bench press, coupled with increasing the number of sets of cable chest flys taken to failure. And the growth you experience can help you increase your overall strength. Really this is just another way to view the concepts behind Westside Conjugate.

From reading later in your post, you mention aesthetics are important. That comes with fat loss of course (you simply diet down to the body fat % where your abs show as much as you're happy with. concept is simple, but execution is tough)….but doing more isolated resistance training helps a ton with aesthetics. So things like face pulls, lateral raises, lat pulldowns, overhead tricep extensions/skullcrushers- which target specific muscle areas- will force those to grow at a higher rate than they otherwise would if you were just doing compound movements only.

Recovery- if you value muscle size in any way, I am not a fan of cold plunging because it might blunt the inflammatory response you want which is directly telling your muscle to adapt and heal and grow so you can handle a heavier load next exercise. Just be consistent with protein, and don't be afraid of carbs because they help tremendously with muscle function. And above all, dont push a muscle if it's still sore. if it takes an extra day of rest for that particular muscle for it to not be sore, then so be it

You mentioned you're on hormonal supplementation, which will help with all of this- recovery and muscle preservation and likely growth with proper full-range-of-motion resistance training. Having extra testosterone on board means those extra isolation exercises to help grow your shoulders/back/arms will just grow all the more.

Capitol Ag said:

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bam02 said:

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You were juicing at 59?

---

Why? I know a lot of guys on gear in their 50s and 60s. And a lot on TRT. Luckily, at 51, I naturally have very high testosterone, but I get why folks who take gear do. I just do not want the side effects...And I have UC. Probably not a good idea for me to get on gear. For what? to weight 225 at the same BF% (I am below 10 currently). Plus, I do this stuff for fun and therapy. If I am not the biggest cat in the gym, so be it. And I train with Gods, super heros and mutants at my gym. LOL, there's a lot of gear users around me. Many 35-60+ years old. Honestly, wouldn't want it any other way. Regular gyms just don't have the same level of intensity. But, I digress...

That said, I assume most on here know TRT isn't gear. It ups the testosterone levels to what one would naturally have. Gear is different. Using gear to up your test alone is like using a thermo nuke to hit a factory when a smart bomb would do just fine and not leave the whole city in dust. Gear works to get one BIG depending on your genetics and lifting skills and will help with strength but it sounds like only so much in that department, again depending on the individual. Never been worth it for me, BUT I don't judge. Just make sure you get good advice on usage. and use JUST the amount that gets the job done, test your blood often and find and use the safer protocols out there. Likely can save your life. But is no guarantee.

---

For those of us that are subject to USADA / WADA, TRT *is* gear.

So much to unpack here.

Lets start with the majors:

(1) You aren't going to get the abz and hit strength PRs. If you do, there are one of two things going on (1) you are very detrained and are getting the novice gains, or (2) you are on gear.

(2) If you want some advice, post your program. I think your programming is off. I also don't think you are overtrained, I think you are in a caloric deficit and its dropping your strength.

(3) Not telling you what to want or feel, but I would suggest forgetting about abz for a bit and getting stronger and putting on some muscle. Your window of putting on some muscle before you start the very non-linear aging curve is quickly closing. Your older self is going to thank you for it. (Plus, and man, I made this mistake for a decade, trying to get abs before going through a muscle gaining strength phase will not work very well. It is MUCH easier to get abs when you have a good amount of muscle and strength. Hell, even if you do succeed in getting abs without going through a bulk phase, you will look like you are terminally ill, ask me how I know)

BartInLA said:

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Key concepts/techniques to recovery? I've always focused on strength over mass.

After a several years break I joined a gym again and my PR on the machine bench press (no big weights at PF) was 160 the first day back. Turning 64 next month. 3 years ago it was 240.

I'm trying to find that sweet spot of training like a beast yet not overtraining. In the past while busting it I've had 9 straight weeks before with no strength gains. I actually went down. It was very discouraging.

Thursday I went high weights to failure doing 1-6 reps. Friday I was sore to the bone. In the three weeks before I started, my chest press 1 Rep Max dropped from 160 to 140.

Here are my 2 main questions.
1. If you don't have 1 rep PB that improve after X weeks does that almost guarantee you are overtraining? What is X?

2. Key ideas for recovery? So many but my guess is I'm not eating protein CONSISTENTLY. At 180 pounds, I'm aiming for 175 g of protein and think I should break it up into 5 meals. Maybe 10 g of creatine taken 12 hours apart in 5 g doses.

This seems to be a challenging hobby. So much unknown and false bro science and of course genetics differ and there's the age factor.

I never (being honest) really did legs and barely abs. Today I realize leg strength is critical to overall strength/growth and I don't want any gut. On Mounjaro (Type II diabetes) I got down to 152. Too low. Looked 10 years older BUT it was nice not to have any gut (no developed abs just not a gut). Personally I want defined abs but let's see if my actions matches my words. Flatter abs impress women more than bigger arms typically (I'm married but still). Cardi counts. Blood profile is important. There's like 48 metrics lol. It can get overwhelming. Having practical strength, longevity, and aesthetics are a top three.

When you are competing against yourself it's pretty cool but after the initial gains, it's complicated and difficult in my opinion. I'm trying to understand the science underlying strength training and the idea of not doing nervous system damage while strength training. Want to develop a list of simple top 10 principles.

---

What is X? It depends. What is your program? And I'd even argue that the idea of "overtraining" isn't looking at it the right way. A better way to think about it is fatigue management. Are you trining so much that you are building up too much fatigue without recovering enough...One of the reasons I loved RP was b/c of Dr. Israetel's focus on fatigue management.