So I suffer from anxiety and was looking for non-pharmaceuticals options to help relieve it. I have been off my SSRI now for about 6 months and while exercise helps, I still have a night or two a month where I experience chills, cold sweats, poor sleep, racing thoughts, and piloerection (goosebumps in waves all across my body) for the entire night. I will have a song stuck in my head on repeat, or a certain thing I saw earlier, or whatever. For whatever reason, I cannot turn my brain off -- even if I am exhausted.

Some nights I would get in bed at 830pm and basically toss and turn until 6am, which makes the next days recovery brutal. This was actually occurring when I was on my SSRI, so I thought it was the cause and it does not seem like it was after now being weened off of it since August.

This led me to doing research on micro dosing with psilocybin a couple of times a week, taking a very small amount, then taking a break for two or so weeks. I feel like they do relax me and there isnt any of that psychedelic feeling mushrooms are famous for. I have never taken enough to get visuals or anything like that.

Now I am seeing that there are a lot of newer places opening up ketamine therapy for treating PTSD, anxiety, depression, OCD, and others.

Now I grew up in the 90s, when D.A.R.E was still around and I was taught that any drug or alcohol are bad bad bad, so even reading about mushrooms felt a little bit strange.

I know nothing about ketamine at all, but I do believe that you can overdose on the drug, and it is a "drug" -- a synthetic...but now there are a rash of websites out there attempting to convince people that it's safe.

Has anyone tried this?

Thoughts? Im thinking I probably dont want to start even looking into this, I was just curious.

Yes, exactly that was my concern. You can probably have a mega-bad trip from mushrooms, but there is little to no risk of OD.

Ketamine is a sedative, which makes its potential to OD significantly higher.

I think most of the programs I've seen so far are under doctors orders. They don't send you K in the mail and tell you "good luck".

I also would not want the visual hallucinations or any of the trippy **** going on either.

First off, great move getting off SSRI's. I was on Zoloft briefly several years ago and hated the feeling. I ditched it quickly. My wife was on minimum Lexapro for post-partum, and getting off that too suddenly was a horrible experience. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if coming off isn't still impacting you in some way.

I'm no shrink or clinician, but finding someone to talk to about what's eating you is big. I went through the Re:Gen program for depression at my church in Dallas, and it was life-changing. I'm more than happy to talk because I still get some of the same symptoms you do on occasion. If I'm upset about something I think I can't talk about, I'll lie awake until all hours with some garbage song stuck in my head.

Regarding ketamine itself, I recalled this post from the Entertainment Board thread about Matthew Perry. Sounds like nothing anyone should touch, in my non-medical opinion.


Hang in there

Oh wait, I somehow failed to connect the dots that you're in my actual snip. Glad you're gathering lots of info

Ah yeah I see that as well. Sounds like a def no go then.

Yeah wanted to check on H&F v. EB to hopefully get some different doctors who lurk here's advice.

Thanks for sharing that you have similar symptoms and triggers. I thought j had some sort of OCD or something.

I do have a lot on my plate right now and it's a stressful time so I think it's just very intense anxiety, and I can almost predict now when these things will happen. Symptoms seem to last for several hours into the next day. I try to take a nap, but still can't sleep. Odd. Maybe once or twice a month.

They use the prescription ketamine (Spravata) at Baylor Scott & White mental health clinic. It is a nasal mist. You can only get it administered in the clinic and have to stay for several hours to be sure you're ok.

In this form it's pretty mainstream and I'd say generally safe.

You could probably look up spravata to find a clinic near you if you're interested

In my experience, talking to a professional who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy has really helped.

Have you looked into EMDR? From what i have read, it looks like a good alternative to chemical based therapies.

I did EMDR therapy and couples therapy about 8 years ago after I was diagnosed with PTSD from a traumatic event in 2016. I am not the same person I was before this time, but it seemed to really help. I wasnt sure that it would work for generalized anxiety. Come to think of it, I think that day was what caused this generalized anxiety I am still experiencing to this day.

I dont ever remember being anxious that often in college or in my late twenties at least when I was it was for a totally normal and routine reason: finals, stress, exams, etc.

This just seems to happen at random for discernable reason.

I will look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

Thank you so much for the info. I'll look into it, but I think I'm going to stay away from ketamine.

Plan is more exercise, better diet, trying to get more sleep and maybe look into therapy.

I know this probably goes without saying, but I feel compelled to note that this is only my experience.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) has worked well for me when it comes to anxiety. CBT is also helpful, and I have had success with both methods.

From a conceptual standpoint, I often struggle with "changing the way that I think", which is a primary focus of CBT. In short, changing the way that one thinks will in turn change the way one feels. ACT focuses on more accepting what is going on around a person and then ultimately committing to action that is congruent with the person's values.

My struggle with the former is that I will often bog down in a pattern of knowing I am anxious and try to forcefully change the thought pattern and expect the outcome of that. In doing so, I have a habit of becoming anxious about being anxious and anxious about the desired outcome not happening (quickly enough). There are many undiscussed layers there, but that is the general synopsis. With ACT, I am not trying to change my surroundings or trying to change the way that I think, but more accepting them as reality (though not accepting them as me) and then committing to action that is congruent with what I value and positively engages me.

Both are very valuable methods of therapy and can be very beneficial to those struggling with anxiety. I have found that a lot of talk therapy is based around CBT, and ACT does not seem to be as prevalent.

On a somewhat related parallel, I have found ACT to be particularly helpful in training and chasing fitness goals.

Summarized reading here: https://psychcentral.com/lib/whats-the-difference-between-acceptance-and-commitment-therapy-mindfulness-based-cognitive-therapy#what-is-act

Thanks. I will look into it. I have heard of CBT before, but not ACT.

I'll check it out.

ACT is newer than CBT… it's more of a type of CBT in some ways than a whole new theory. That being said, the emphasis on acceptance is the priority.

Either way, it's good. While you're looking for a therapist that focuses on it, there are a lot of books that you can read and get your mind going along this path

Anxiety is a nasty b i t c h. I feel your pain and know what you are going through. SSRIs suck for a lot of reasons. Benzos create more problems than they are worth. The things I've found help most are avoiding alcohol, taking care of my gut health, and exercise (walking meditation especially). My buddy swears by micro-dosing. The Huberman Lab podcast on psilocybin finally convinced me to try it for a while. I didn't find the success my bud did, but we are all wired differently. I hope you find what works for you and you get relief. It can be real hell, but you aren't alone. Good luck.

I think letamije clinics are popular because they are better for business than other psychedelics in that there's a demand for recurring upkeep.

I think a heavy dose of mushrooms possibly followed with self-guided or therapist guided steps to incorporate the experience properly.

Having been involved with the "psychedelic renaissance" for a good 5 years that's my opinion. Doesn't make it true, but thats what I've experienced.

Ketamine has a step up as it's not a overly scheduled drug vs the others. The rest of the psychedelic lineup has to be federally legalized or decriminalized before you can build businesses around it in a relatively "safe from the government" manner.

I've requested ketamije over opiods for a surgery and the biggest thing that you get from it is the elimination of all barriers from initial thought to what comes out of your mouth. The amount of love I felt blossoming in my heart when I looked at my wife poured from my mouth, where normally it would've been filtered and come out in a different manner that would've referenced prior hurts or pains or life experiences and come out more filtered.

That kind of mental state is exceptionally valuable for therapy and asking questions that your core self would want to pursue, instead of your core self getting filtered out by the fears and anxieties and pains and traumas experienced throughout life.

At the same time, anxiety is a manner of your body telling you something about the environment around you that needs be absolved. Have you traced down where the anxiety stems from?

Fyi:

Single LSD dose provides lasting anxiety relief: Research

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted breakthrough therapy status to an LSD formula to treat generalized anxiety disorder after an initial study has shown that a single dose of the drug could provide… pic.twitter.com/ORqPzZu29C

— Owen Gregorian (@OwenGregorian) March 8, 2024

Quote:

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Single LSD dose provides lasting anxiety relief: Research

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted breakthrough therapy status to an LSD formula to treat generalized anxiety disorder after an initial study has shown that a single dose of the drug could provide lasting relief.

The LSD therapy developed by Mind Medicine (MindMed) must still go through the standard FDA approval process and will soon enter Phase 3 clinical trials.

The study that prompted FDA advancement found the drug was "generally well-tolerated with most adverse events rated as mild to moderate, transient and occurring on dosing day, and being consistent with expected acute effects of the study drug," according to a release on the findings.

The most common adverse effects on the initial "dosing day" or when patients were first given the drug included hallucinations, euphoric mood, abnormal thinking, headache, dizziness and nausea, among others.

The company plans to meet for an update with the FDA in the coming months and begin an expanded clinical program in the second half of the year.

MindMed, a pharmaceutical company focused on developing psychedelic drugs into medicines, has spent years researching possible medicinal uses for LSD, an illicit drug that has never been approved for medicinal use. The specific LSD formula from the study is dubbed MM120.

Dr. David Feifel, a California-based psychiatry researcher who was an investigator in the study called the findings "truly remarkable."

"I've conducted clinical research studies in psychiatry for over two decades and have seen studies of many drugs under development for the treatment of anxiety," he said in a statement provided by the company. "These results suggest the potential MM120 has in the treatment of anxiety, and those of us who struggle every day to alleviate anxiety in our patients look forward to seeing results from future Phase 3 trials."

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Took LSD in Boston the first time after a Cannabis business conference. I began drawing for the first time with enjoyment versus anger/frustration at not being able to convey the imagery I wanted appropriately. The anxiety around artistic expressions melted away.

LSD is pretty damned cool. Ended up wandering around Boston, emphatically enjoying the architecture (especially the churches!) And overall a new appreciation for life that I hadn't recognized before.

Good ****, would recommend.

Tim Ferris’ newsletter this week: pic.twitter.com/h4NPmWFpk9

— Jules Evans (@JulesEvans11) March 9, 2024

"I've seen more high functioning people derailed by ketamine than any other substance."

Lykos Therapeutics (formerly MAPS PBC) just submitted to FDA for MDMA-assisted therapy. Their data is all publicly available for those that enjoy extra reading on this topic.

I knew a physician with depression that said ketamine worked but it didn't have long lasting effects and was expensive because I don't think insurance companies pay for that.
CBT rocks and you can work on acceptance doing it.

CBT is good stuff. I like leading with MI to see where patients want to go.

I was interested in Ketamine therapy from a patient perspective and Veteran. But man that stuff is expensive. I know it's been great for Vets too.

Glad you enjoyed the experience. I'm a big fan of psychedelic therapy in a controlled manner.

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time, OP

I too have suffered from anxiety pretty much my whole life. Always overly worried about stuff and occasional panic attacks. It's gotten worse being a dad.

I would STRONGLY recommend therapy. That's been the most helpful thing. Been going for a decade now.

Mindfulness meditation is fantastic too. Actually about to hit a 200 day streak on Headspace. They have different series, depression, anxiety, etc.. it's great


Have you tried CBD? I've also found this very useful. Particularly for unwinding before bed and the nighttime anxiety. I buy through Lazarus Naturals. Well vetted, high quality products. I use gummies. Let me know if you're interested, I can send you a 20% coupon.

Feel free to DM me, been in the trenches with you OP https://texags.com/forums/48/topics/3403091/replies/65699906#65699906

What about Ketamine Therapy appeals to you? What are the results you have researched that you like?

What other forms of therapy have you tried beyond medication?

I wish I could use CBD. The Army don't like that though.

Glad to see people embracing therapy. It helps!

That blows.

Even the THC free stuff?

BadMoonRisin said:

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I did EMDR therapy and couples therapy about 8 years ago after I was diagnosed with PTSD from a traumatic event in 2016. I am not the same person I was before this time, but it seemed to really help. I wasnt sure that it would work for generalized anxiety. Come to think of it, I think that day was what caused this generalized anxiety I am still experiencing to this day.

I dont ever remember being anxious that often in college or in my late twenties at least when I was it was for a totally normal and routine reason: finals, stress, exams, etc.

This just seems to happen at random for discernable reason.

I will look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

---

My anxiety doesn't manifest in the same way but I can empathize with randomly being freaked out for no reason with my fight or flight response going into overdrive. I don't have the PTSD aspect you had, but similarly didn't really have problems with anxiety until my 30's.

I would recommend a book called Anxious Truth (he also has a webcast). Very easy read and helps deal with anxiety from a behavioral perspective. Helped me get better.

Aggie Therapist said:

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Glad you enjoyed the experience. I'm a big fan of psychedelic therapy in a controlled manner.

---

Can't remember if I mention:

I think the self-guided trip is best (requires some upfront preparing for best results), but if the person isn't able to do the hard work upfront a guided session is excellent.

I just don't know how much I trust the average person or therapist with my exposed psyche. Maybe it doesn't matter as much but when I think about how much time and money went into researching psychedelics from a military standpoint it slightly unnerves me.

I dunno. Saul goodman.

Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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At the same time, anxiety is a manner of your body telling you something about the environment around you that needs be absolved. Have you traced down where the anxiety stems from?

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Yes. Im pretty sure I know where the anxiety comes from, to the exact day, hour, minute, and second.

I've even done EMDR therapy that was the result of a PTSD diagnosis from said event.

I went to couples counseling with my wife to help us through it and, at the time, I thought that I was ...fixed? Cured? accepted it? I dont know what to call it, I thought I was 'all better'.



Coming to find out that might not be fully true.

Sorry, I responded to a previous comment.

I have done EMDR therapy and couples counseling. Those were years ago and I thought they "worked". I think they did and maybe I just need to go back because I wasn't ever all the way uhm fixed?

I dont really like to talk about it, but I've shared a few times on this website so it doesn't make sense not to give context to people that are attempting to help me -- the event was related to the death of my 7 week old infant daughter.

A little bit of me thinks that there is no coming back from something like this. It's difficult to explain. I don't want the wounds to heal because it will just take me further and further away from my daughter. I have dreams about her weekly -- what would she be like? Would she call me dad, daddy, or dadface (like my youngest daughters does)...would she be a tomboy or a girly girl? I have no idea. She would be 8 on April 15th. I miss her. Every single. day.

But I also have a wife and two kids that love me more than I can ever express, and I need to be present and capable for them, here and now.

I dont want to do anything to jeopardize that, I just have no clue what that looks like, so I appreciate this thread and the posters and Aggies that have tried to help.

What is MI, if you dont mind me asking?

I dont want to get high, I just want to be able to turn my brain off.

Yes. I have tried CBD + CBN for sleep. That seems to help slightly, but the nights I am referring to have no end and no prevention.

The only coping mechanism I have is pretending that I deserve it, which is not healthy either.

I think its clear that I need some type of talk therapy whether it be ACT or CBT.

The key is to turn my thoughts into constructive things instead of always-on-negative-self talk bull*****

Life is already hard enough, it doesnt help if im more negative than I should be.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds tough.

Yes please do some type of therapy like CBT

Also, don't sleep on my mindfulness meditation suggestion either. It's scientifically proven to help with neuroplasticity and being able to rewire your thoughts just like you mentioned.

They are probably happening so often that you're in a sort of bad pattern. Being able to be aware that they are happening and are only thoughts/feelings can go a long way in tuning down the severity/frequency.

Great book that set me on the mindfulness path:

https://www.amazon.com/10-Happier-Self-Help-Actually-Works/dp/0062265423?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=e8c4a94f-4656-42d7-b538-565e4efc66a6

It's a treatment modality I like to start with.

Motivational Interviewing. Similar to solution-focused therapy, it can keep clients task oriented and making progress towards obtainable goals!

MI is the client and the therapist working as a team in order to make a collaborative treatment plan. It's realizing that everyone has the right to their own self-determination. I can't force you to change at that moment in time, I can help you navigate through your ambivalence but you have to want to seek change.

I found it helpful when working with recently housed Veterans and those suffering with substance abuse issues.

I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling to such a degree. Though I've battled depression a long time I developed anxiety out of nowhere a few years ago. I'm fortunate enough to live in a medical marijuana state. I take a 5 mg pill at night that also has CBD and it helps me manage. I don't take enough to get high, I haven't been high since college. Every once in a while I need some help and I have some THC/CBD breath mints that are 2.5 mg. I didn't want to take another pharmaceutical for it, I'm on enough as it is.

I'm certainly no expert but based on what you've gone through I'd think you have PTSD to some extent. I listen to the Shawn Ryan show from time to time and I know that he, as well as a number of his guests who've battled PTSD, have gone through intensive plant based therapy. That would mean taking a trip to central or South America to undergo either ayahuasca or ibogaine therapy since those are illegal here. Listening to them talk about it sounds like a game changer for a lot of them who've gone through hell and it helped them come out the other side. I'd consider it myself for my own reasons but I don't think it's in my price range. I believe a number of them have been to a place in Mexico for ibogaine therapy specifically. I don't know whether it's something you'd consider but if you're considering ketamine then perhaps you should look into it.

Is that good or bad? I dont want to get high, I just want to stop my racing thoughts.