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Cholesterol, fat, sugar, processed foods, and living longer

6,454 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by Todd 02
TXTransplant
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8:04a, 1/17/24
Sometimes I think "fitness gurus" overstate the importance of the gut microbiome, but this is one area of research that is really in its very early stages.

It does make sense that what you eat will influence the makeup of your gut microbiome, and based on what I know about microbiology, it stands to reason that you would want a diverse population of bacteria in your gut. If all you eat is protein and fat, then that's likely going to push out bacteria that utilize carbs, sugars, and fiber.

That in turn is going to make it more difficult for your body to process fibrous veggies - and you will further exclude that food group from your diet.

There are a lot of studies that demonstrate the benefits of fiber, so I personally feel like that could be one negative effect of diets like carnivore.
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2girlsdad
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In reply to TXTransplant • 8:42a, 1/17/24
That's valid, and why I randomly eat some low glycemic fruit. I do have to eat them in the morning as if I do in the evening then my stomach can be an issue the next morning.

Maybe I'll start having plain Greek yogurt with frozen blueberries in the morning (and allulose to take the tart off).
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TXTransplant
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 9:32a, 1/17/24
I eat yogurt every day. I started off with Greek, but the Icelandic yogurt is even better. Siggi's Skyr or the Icelandic Provisons. I also do plain and smash up raspberries and blackberries with a little stevia in it.
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2girlsdad
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7:01p, 1/17/24
Alrighty, I ordered an apoa/apob/crp/homocysetine test. After 10 months on mainly carnivore, let's see. Man I hope my apob is good...I'll post my results.

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TXTransplant
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 8:22p, 1/17/24
Funny coincidence…I had a drs appt today to review some blood work. I've never paid attention to my apob numbers before. It just wasn't on my radar. My apob this time was 36. My dr said she doesn't think she's ever seen one that low.
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True Anomaly
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 8:54p, 1/17/24
AG
2girlsdad said:
Alrighty, I ordered an apoa/apob/crp/homocysetine test. After 10 months on mainly carnivore, let's see. Man I hope my apob is good...I'll post my results.

Good luck!
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DeepintheHeart06
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11:30p, 1/17/24
AG
These comments are a general observation and not directed at any one individual or post on this thread. Not looking for a debate.

I think everyone (a lot of medical professionals included) tries to over-simplify this topic. Diet/cholesterol is an incredibly complex equation that frankly we don't understand well enough. And likely is different for different people based on personal body make-up, genetics, risk factors, goals, etc.

Everyone points to some study promoting different aspects of diet/supplements, and there is probably at least some truth to most of them. But to honestly think that at this stage we have 1 diet that is superior to anything else is optimistic at best.

Likewise, cholesterol cannot be viewed in a vacuum. We know for a fact that elevated LDL is associated with higher risk for cardiovascular outcomes. Then we break that down to subtypes and then add in ApoB and Lp(a) and HDL and CRP and ESR and whatever other marker. All it does is show the complexity. One single number does not tell the whole story. I fear that too many people keep searching for 1 marker that gives them the result they want and thus justification to ignore other markers.

I don't pretend to have some extraordinary understanding of these topics either. So when this kind of stuff starts coming up , I think in the right population Calcium scores and maybe to some extent Cardiac CTA can be powerful tools. It is an objective measure of your individual risk compared to the population at whole. It isn't perfect, but it's hard to argue with. So in other words, if your calcium score is through the roof, I don't care what any of your numbers or diet are.....it's not working. But again, this has to be considered in the right population. Just my 2 cents.

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TXTransplant
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In reply to DeepintheHeart06 • 5:45a, 1/18/24
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. Diet/weight is just the only thing we as individuals can influence/change. We can't change our genetics. And if you are overweight and your bloodwork numbers aren't good, the first thing the doctor is going to tell you is to lose weight. The medical community is just as guilty of oversimplifying the issues.
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2girlsdad
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6:17a, 1/18/24


So this study shows that of you do low carb, and start to get lean, LDL goes up. As BMI goes up, LDL goes down. So at least here it appears saturated fat doesn't affect LDL as much as BMI?

This goes to the crux of my conundrum. If carnivore, in this instance, gets someone down to 12% bf, is there any data showing those people are still having coronary events laternin life?
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MRB10
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 6:19a, 1/18/24
AG
2girlsdad said:
Alrighty, I ordered an apoa/apob/crp/homocysetine test. After 10 months on mainly carnivore, let's see. Man I hope my apob is good...I'll post my results.



I had crp, homocysteine, and lipoprotein a done in December on a similar diet. I probably eat more higher glycemic fruit that you though.

They were all very very low so I'll be interested to hear what you get back.


CRP - 0.6
Homocysteine - 7.0
Lipoprotein A - <10
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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94chem
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8:49a, 1/19/24
The goal for all of us should be to die healthy.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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GeorgiAg
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9:28a, 1/19/24
AG
I'm going mostly carnivore for now. It's been about two weeks. I have a visit with my PC coming up, so we'll see what the bloodwork says. It will be almost 4 weeks by the time I get my bloodwork done.

Steak
ground beef
ground turkey
chicken
eggs
beef jerky
pork rinds
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Max Power
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 10:28a, 1/19/24
AG
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Yeah, I really want to find some place that still has the gros michel banana. Apparently they were ravaged by a fungus decades ago and everyone switched to the cavendish banana. Supposedly gros michel has a more banana flavor - like more akin to artificial banana flavor which is what it was modeled after.

But yeah, would be interesting to see what original fruits and veggies were like thousands of years ago. Also the effect they've had on the animals that eat them.
So I can't remember where I read or heard about it but the change in the human diet has lead to physical changes in the body. When old skeletons are exhumed they noticed the teeth were primarily straight, unlike today where crooked teeth are very common. Evidently the human jaw used to be much bigger as it needed to be strong to chew tough food, both meat and plants. The human diet got softer, and the bone structure got smaller, but the teeth didn't so they grew in crooked due to lack of space.
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2girlsdad
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12:49p, 1/20/24
Apo B was 222....damnit

Apo little a, <6 (so yay)
Homocysetine - 10
CRP - 2.6

I don't know if my risks are higher for a cardiovascular event, but I'm still concerned. I will get my CAC score and try to get a CT angiogram.

Until I feel more comfortable, I'm staying carnivore BUT eating chickenbreast with olive/Avocado oil, ground turkey with the same oils, and some Avocado and will test again in 3-4 months. Cutting out bacon and cookingy eggs with the same oils. I'll also eat some avocados and other low glycemic fruit.

Oh, and salmon. I already like sardines and I get those in olive oil (with Chipotle Tabasco, it's awesome).
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Cyp0111
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 1:22p, 1/20/24
Seems like the simple switch to chicken, turkey, salmon and fruit should help. How are you on other veggies ?
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True Anomaly
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 2:00p, 1/20/24
AG
Sorry to hear the results. But it does sound like you're figuring out changes that really should work. Will be interested to see what happens, but I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised
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Ryan the Temp
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In reply to TXTransplant • 2:21p, 1/20/24
AG
TXTransplant said:
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. Diet/weight is just the only thing we as individuals can influence/change. We can't change our genetics. And if you are overweight and your bloodwork numbers aren't good, the first thing the doctor is going to tell you is to lose weight. The medical community is just as guilty of oversimplifying the issues.
My doctor and I have had numerous discussions about how genetics is probably the one thing keeping me from being in a really bad place, given my weight. At my last physical I was 70-80 pounds overweight (on the BMI scale) and my total cholesterol was 122, HDL was 36, LDL was 75, and triglycerides was 53. It was also the reason keto worked so effectively for me, even though it was personally unsustainable.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to Max Power • 2:48p, 1/20/24
Max Power said:
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Yeah, I really want to find some place that still has the gros michel banana. Apparently they were ravaged by a fungus decades ago and everyone switched to the cavendish banana. Supposedly gros michel has a more banana flavor - like more akin to artificial banana flavor which is what it was modeled after.

But yeah, would be interesting to see what original fruits and veggies were like thousands of years ago. Also the effect they've had on the animals that eat them.
So I can't remember where I read or heard about it but the change in the human diet has lead to physical changes in the body. When old skeletons are exhumed they noticed the teeth were primarily straight, unlike today where crooked teeth are very common. Evidently the human jaw used to be much bigger as it needed to be strong to chew tough food, both meat and plants. The human diet got softer, and the bone structure got smaller, but the teeth didn't so they grew in crooked due to lack of space.


Yeah, my orthodontist told me about this over 20 years ago when I was in high school. I think it was an old dentist that wrote a book about it around the early 1900s. Somehow refined carbs were believed to be what caused it. Doesn't make sense, unless something is triggering some epigenetic changes, but I dunno.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to 2girlsdad • 7:14p, 1/20/24
What was your total LDL?

Also, just remember CAC is just a picture at this moment in time. It's not something that can change like LDL can. It pretty much just goes up with age. So if you had great arteries before, but you've only done carnivore for a short period of time, it might not have had an effect yet. And you may do it for 2 years before it has an effect that you can see on CT.

In other words, I don't think you can use it to predict anything. It can only give you retrospective data. And unless you get one yearly, there's no way of knowing what your current lifestyle is doing vs what your prior lifestyle did.
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2girlsdad
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 7:39a, 1/21/24
I didn't test total LDL as well as HDL ir triglycerides this time. I have a few times in the past 3 years and my HDL is always high and triglycerides low. My LDL has always been elevated as well as my sisters. We seem to have high hereditary LDL and my mom, who's health has been horrible for 30 years, is still going well for a 69 year old (no cv issues), and my dad is almost 80 and also didn't take care of himself (but wasn't obese like my mom was until she had gastric bypass 15 years ago).
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The Grinder (99)
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 8:49a, 1/21/24
AG
My first impression of this would be, did those prehistoric people lose teeth regularly thus less crowding thus straighter teeth

I got Invisalign as an adult after already having 4 wisdom teeth removed and still had crowding. They had to "shave" a fraction of a millimeter off a couple teeth to make the teeth line up

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2girlsdad
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11:02a, 1/21/24
On a positive note, yesterday was day 1 on low saturated fat day and I've been stuck at 217 for a month and was 214 this AM.

I did buy the oikios 0/0/0 greek yogurt but am mixing in Avocado oil which sure does make it good and creamy.

I will also still be making my beef jerky since it's very low fat (use eye of round).
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Bird Poo
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3:09p, 1/23/24
AG
My cardiologist told me that cholesterol was 75% based on genetics. That's why he prescribed me a statin that I never take because my cholesterol saturated brain causes me to forget to take the damn thing.
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zooguy96
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12:43p, 1/25/24
AG
I'd say generally eat as much unprocessed food as you can. Whenever I do that, I lose weight and feel better.

Whole 30 really works for me. It forces me to eat more vegetables and fruit.
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Todd 02
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2:40p, 1/30/24
AG
Oreo Cookie Treatment Lowers LDL Cholesterol More Than High-Intensity Statin therapy in a Lean Mass Hyper-Responder on a Ketogenic Diet: A Curious Crossover Experiment

Case Report: Hypercholesterolemia "Lean Mass Hyper-Responder" Phenotype Presents in the Context of a Low Saturated Fat Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet
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2girlsdad
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2:59p, 1/30/24
So I can go back on red-meat carnivore!?!?!

I have some baselines of when my BMI was higher and every time I did keto or carnivore and lost fat, my LDL went up.

So is it possible to then be lean and overall metabolically healthy and yet be at a higher chance of stroke or a cardiac event just because apoB is high?

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Todd 02
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3:14p, 1/30/24
AG
Man, I dunno.

While I have no specific data to back up my opinion, nor am I educated enough in this topic to even have formed such an opinion because I'm just a dumb engineer, I have a "hunch" that the attack on cholesterol is unfounded and is based solely on discovering LDL particles coagulated in patients who experienced cardiovascular disease and correlating an abundance of LDL particles with heart disease. Correlation does not equal causation, as we all know. But who really gives a flying #%!@ about causation when you can treat the correlation for a much longer and more lucrative amount of time as compared to solving the causation issue?

LDL is made by your body because your body requires it. Keep the pipes clean and free from abrasive sugars and acidic seed oils, both of which cause oxidation of your LDL, and it'll probably flow just fine in your bloodstream. But don't take my word for it.

For me, the bottom line is that anybody out there that thinks they have it all figured out is both arrogant and wrong.
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