I have always struggled with poor sleep basically ever since I hit middle school. I have a 4 and 2 year old now which adds even more to the stuggle.

I have tried melatonin with mixed results. But, I'm always hesitant to use it for too long.

I have a healthy fear of things like ambien for several reasons.

working out regularly helps a bit. but, it's definitely not a cure for me.

i can really tell now that my lack of sleep time but more importantly lack of quality sleep is really starting to bite me.

open to suggestions. i've thought about a sleep study but what good will that do if its very likely i will not fall asleep during the night of the study?

The only time in my adult life I didn't need medication to fall or stay asleep was when my daughter was still an infant.

Are you on screens at the end of the day? Reading always helps me fall asleep, my main issue is staying asleep.

I never tried Ambien because when I initially talked to my doctor about it like 20 years ago he said his patients that got hooked on Ambien went through hell trying to kick it. Instead what I've been on is half an OTC sleep aid and melatonin. Neither on their own helped me much but that specific combination helps me get to sleep and stay asleep.

I don't have kids so I don't know how to navigate that but the easiest (and cheapest) things I did to improve my sleep were: quit drinking, no caffeine after like 2pm, I don't typically eat after 7pm, and no screens within an hour of wanting to fall asleep. I have a pretty solid sleep routine now so my body knows when it's time to start shutting down. If I am having difficulty calming my nerves, relaxing, whatever I will do a sleep meditation or breathing exercise.

Dr Matt Walker has appeared on quite a few podcasts (Huberman, Peter Attia, etc) and has his own with a wealth of information on improving sleep. Check those out.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/matthew-walker-on-improving-sleep-quality

I've heard a number of folks talk about a specific type of magnesium supplement, in addition to what's posted above, for what it's worth. I've never tried it though.

Download the CBT-i Coach app and follow recommendations there.
Make sure your sleep hygiene is good, there is a ton of information online to help with that.
There are some non (or less) addictive options for sleep aids out now, such as daridorexant and suvorexant that might be worth a try if you want to try to avoid the traditional sleep aids if all else fails.

I like Clvr blends sleepy time blend. It doesn't make me sleepy but it helps me fall asleep faster and not wake up in the middle of the night.

For supplements, I've had a good experience with Momentous Sleep Packs but they're way too expensive. I build my own buying supps off Amazon:

Magnesium L-Threonate
Apigenin
L-Theanine

I find they do a good job of getting me in to a sleep-ready state.

Are you having a yearly physical? If so, discuss it with your doctor.

I sleep fine, just have a weird schedule - can't stay awake past about 8 PM and wake up at 3 AM.

I complained to my doc and he was like "gee you're getting 7 hours - what's your problem?"

I use mag threonate + gaba + L-theanine cuza Huberman

Also per Hubs,
Limit caffeine after 2ish (depending on when you go to sleep), natural light exposure early in AM, wait on coffee for 1+ hrs after waking, exercise, etc

Exercise at like 5 or 6 am. You will be plenty tired and worn out at night and will sleep well.

Talk to your doc and get referred to a sleep specialist

I've been on magnesium 20 of melatonin and 50 of diphenhydramine for forever

Now im getting a sleep study done and on 3 of lunesta

Sleep is more predictable these days

I started having sleep issues about the same time in my life. I spent the past 20 years trying multiple supplements and medications and always had concerns of what the long term effects might be.

In the past 18 months I have implemented a strict regime of (1) regular exercise in the morning (2) healthy diet and avoiding eating/drinking anything for 4 hours before I go to bed and (3) removing all digital inputs other than music/podcasts/meditation apps for an hour before I try to go to sleep.

I still have bad nights, but my sleep has improved tremendously. I regularly get 6-7 hours of uninterrupted sleep now. Best I've had in 20 years.

Not saying I know the answer for you. But just wanted to share what has worked for me. Poor sleep sucks and affects so many areas of life. I hope that you find something that works.

Agree with Eskimo, those changes help a lot. I've been doing Hard75 and as part of that I've been going on a 45 min walk outside first thing in the morning (I am a terrible get out of bed and run person) and I think that has helped quite a bit in setting my rhythms. Then doing the reading right before I go to bed winds me down.
At my worst, I was getting maybe 2 hours of good sleep a night and I found Unisom Restorative Sleep and that helped me get into a positive space

Hey www.rogueshop.com is a TexAgs Sponsor and we can almost guaranteed help you sleep better and reduce pain naturally with most our our products. If you want to chat, jump on our website we have a live chat me and or my Wife will answer any questions you may have.

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K Bo said:

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I don't have kids so I don't know how to navigate that but the easiest (and cheapest) things I did to improve my sleep were: quit drinking, no caffeine after like 2pm, I don't typically eat after 7pm, and no screens within an hour of wanting to fall asleep. I have a pretty solid sleep routine now so my body knows when it's time to start shutting down. If I am having difficulty calming my nerves, relaxing, whatever I will do a sleep meditation or breathing exercise.

Dr Matt Walker has appeared on quite a few podcasts (Huberman, Peter Attia, etc) and has his own with a wealth of information on improving sleep. Check those out.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/matthew-walker-on-improving-sleep-quality

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I will second a lot of this. I'd also recommend a device that monitors sleep like an Oura ring. It's not perfect but it gives you an idea of what works and what doesn't. Do what you normally do for a week while using the device and then start experimenting. What if you don't drink for a couple days, does your sleep score improve? Same thing with no food 4 hours before bed, no caffeine in the afternoon, etc. For me, caffeine has no impact but other people have issues. Alcohol kills me though, even just 1 or 2 drinks. I can fall asleep but can't stay that way and generally get less deep sleep. Good within a few hours of sleeping is a (lesser) problem.

One other thing I'd add is I also found that I like noise, like someone talking or storytelling, so I listen to long podcasts like Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. It helps keep me from dwelling on things that make me anxious.

Pepper Brooks said:

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I've heard a number of folks talk about a specific type of magnesium supplement, in addition to what's posted above, for what it's worth. I've never tried it though.

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Magnesium supplement is a good idea, it helped me with the night cramps and improved the quality of my sleep. Do you have some other things which are bothering you? I couldn't sleep for couple of months cause of uncomfortableness in my ears and i solved the problem in my day by doing a professional ear cleaning only. It felt very annoying and i even had some pain here and there.

Three things that have really helped me get quality sleep:

1) 50mg full spectrum CBD
2) Pillar Performance Triple Magnesium - I feel like it helps with getting to sleep but also sleeping soundly and recovering well
3) This clock - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0093162RM?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share - the light slowly dimming in the evening and slowly rising in the morning plus natural sounds makes for a much better sleeping experience - I feel so much better waking slowly than with a harsh alarm noise in the morning

Haha, an alarm. I have young kids, haven't set an alarm in almost 5 years.

Both of these, about 1-2 hours before bed time.

They do NOT make you "sleepy" or groggy. But, once asleep they will keep you there. I don't take them if
I have to be up super early the next morning. You have to be able to give yourself enough time to wake up naturally. So 8 hours minimum.

They give you dreams that Jimi Hendrix would be proud of too......

Ditching caffeine was the thing that did it for me. As I got older I had to stop eating after dinner as well. After all that I'm out like a light around 10 unless the kids cause commotion.

I concur with everyone. My sleep health routine is as follows (if I want decent rest):

• No caffeine after 12.
• Eat dinner before 7 (later and my acid reflux tends to kick in)
• I hate to say this, but no alchol - period. I have issues with booze. When I drink, I tend to go on 10 year benders... I stop, anxiety floods in, insomnia, etc. I took a break starting about 5 weeks ago. After the first week of tremors, stupid high blood pressure, etc, I finally was able to get it to stop. I have been sleeping like a champ for the first time in years. I doubt this is an issue for you, but it made a huge difference for my sleep quality.
• I usually take 2 aspirin and 2 benedryl before going to bed
• Recently, very recently, I may or may not have been using indica about an hour before bed. This by far is the best sleep aid I have ever had. It helps with the pain. I fall asleep quickly and usually don't wake up and if I do, I pee and immediately go back to sleep (versus tossing and turning until my alarm went off)
• I can't tell you if exercise helps or not. I have been exercising for over 20 years so I can't tell you if it makes a difference.
• More sex - seriously - it takes the edge off.

I went for a period of about ten years with two hours sleep per night. About the only time I slept more is if I was having allergy issues and took an antihistamine.

Do any of you all track your sleep with a sleep score/app?

I use Amazon Halo Band, and while I feel like I'm a bad sleeper, my "score" is in the 70s most nights. Im getting about 6 hours of actual sleep (says I'm awake some, although I don't feel it), but really low on the "deep" sleep - which is usually around only 40min per night.

Anyone else have comparisons - either for good or bad sleepers? wondering how i compare, as I frequently feel like I didn't get a "good" nights sleep.

sirhc said:

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Do any of you all track your sleep with a sleep score/app?

I use Amazon Halo Band, and while I feel like I'm a bad sleeper, my "score" is in the 70s most nights. Im getting about 6 hours of actual sleep (says I'm awake some, although I don't feel it), but really low on the "deep" sleep - which is usually around only 40min per night.

Anyone else have comparisons - either for good or bad sleepers? wondering how i compare, as I frequently feel like I didn't get a "good" nights sleep.

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I get reports from the Sleep Number app. On good nights I get about 6 hours of sleep.

Another thing to look into is getting a good pillow. When we got our Sleep Number bed last year we got some pillows to go with it and it's the best pillow I've ever had. We were in a hotel a couple weeks ago and I couldn't sleep for anything and I think the hotel pillows were why. I don't think the Sleep Number bed itself is anything making a different because I can sleep on damn near any surface with a decent pillow. A pillow that costs over $100 sounds insane but it's worth every penny. I have the curved pillow, and it's exactly what I'd get again if/when I need another one. If you have a store nearby go check them out, they'll have pillows there too, total game changer for me.

https://www.sleepnumber.com/products/pillow-comfortfit

I wear an Oura ring and our Eight Sleep tracks our sleep. I used to be big in to the data but now, most mornings, I just glance at my sleep score, HR, and HRV. On average I get 7hrs of sleep. I really don't derive much from the data anymore as I can usually tell when I have had a low quality night of sleep. I'm not sold on the value unless you're an elite athlete or are trying to solve a very specific sleep problem and have exhausted most of the previously mentioned solutions.

I think you could use a variety of wearables. Oura is just the least intrusive IMO. Some people may be fine just keep on their watch with sleep tracking. I think it helps more with putting data in your hands while you experiment with what helps you sleep better. After you have figured things out for a few months it's less useful.

Read Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Opens your eyes to a lot of stuff when it comes to sleep. Couple of changes I've made that significantly changed my patterns for the better:

1. Eliminated phone and pad screens an hour before bedtime and have put them in my office instead of my bedroom. Went back to an old school alarm clock.

2. Chucked the apps and trackers out. All they do is make you more anxious about your sleep.

3. Go with the flow when it comes to going to bed and when I wake up instead of relying on a norm. All of our circadian rhythms are a little different. Listen to yours instead of considering specific numbers and it will work itself out.

4. Exercise and eating right and maintaining a good weight. Listen to what your body is telling you and pay attention to things that disrupt you. For instance, as much as I love beer, when I drink more than 1 in an evening, my body can't deal… I wake up at odd times and it disrupts me badly.

Recently heard something along these lines….

3-2-1

Do not eat within 3 hours of sleep
Do not drink the last 2 hours
No screen time within the last hour you're awake

Worth a shot

I take avery small dose of Ambien. What I found is when I wake up middle of the night, I can go back to sleep and not toss and turn for a couple hours I dont take it every night, but when I do, I sleep pretty well

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I've had trouble sleeping since I was a kid. It's been a problem my whole life, even when I was crazy active. My brain just isn't wired to be able to go to sleep at a normal time. I'll lay in bed for 3-4 hours before I finally give up and get up.

I've been on Ambien for years. It was the only thing that kept me from losing my mind from lack of sleep. 5 mg is still enough to get me to fall asleep. Never noticed a tolerance develop in any way. So I'm not sure why it's got such a bad rep, but I know it's getting harder to find doctors that will prescribe it. I guess the abusers and addicts once again screw over the rest of us.

I recently started taking Quetiapine. It works surprisingly well. I'm so sleeping I can barely keep my eyes open within about 30-45 mins. I do feel groggier the next morning than I do with Ambien, but at least I've found SOMETHING to help that the doctors don't seem as averse to prescribing.

how''s your vitamin D levels?

Not sure if that's directed at OP or me.

But I regularly get my vitamin D levels checked (every 6 months) because it got as low as 12 about 2 years ago. I now take 5000 IU daily and I've had consistently good levels.