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Cold Tub/Ice Bath Therapy

12,224 Views | 44 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by JFABNRGR
AgEng06
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Let's talk about cold tub therapy. There seems to be a lot of information out there, but I'm looking for some specific experiences or recommendations from this board.

Any thoughts or ideas regarding your experiences, water temp, time in water, timing of treatment (post-workout, anytime, etc), frequency of treament.... anything else?

CapitalCityAg
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Used to do them after long runs, but don't anymore because I'm old and hate being cold. They absolutely help with soreness and inflammation. How cold? Cold enough to have ice floating in the tub (melted by the end is okay). Fifteen minutes or so is long enough.
aggiebrad94
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My swimming pool does not have a heater. I've gotten in a least twice a week all year. It is really cold for about a minute and then my body adapts. I try to stay in for about 10 minutes. After a tough workout, I can tell a HUGE difference in muscle soreness. It also makes me feel like a mental badass!
Lightning Dexter
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Do you still get the same benefits if you go take a hot shower right after the cold plunge or do you have to warm up slowly? I don't like being cold, but I could tough it out if I knew I was about to climb into a warm shower.
strohag
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I think Rogan goes straight into his sauna after ice bath. You don't need a slow warmup.
strbrst777
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Check out Hyper Wellness on University Drive and Copperfield. I have been a 2xweek Cryotonics regular for almost two years. A treatment for me is 3 minutes at 183 below 0 in the nitrogen cooled chamber. A treatment is said to have effect of 30 min or so ice bath. I am closing in on 200 treatments. I plan to continue. Google for info of the things the place has to offer.
MosesHallEnforcer
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I used to do them in the evenings after my workouts. 4 bags of ice in the tub, run the water for a bit. Sit in 10 minutes up past the waist, 5 minutes sunk down with just my hands and head out. Last 5 minutes hands in the water. When the timer was up I'd dunk my head in to finish 20 minutes total. I would play a podcast on my phone to make the time go by quicker.

I loved them. Helped with sleep tremendously as well as soreness. You also get a pretty big endorphin rush afterwards which was nice.

Things have gotten a little hectic with the new kid, but eventually I'd like to get a cold plunge and sauna and get back into it.
maca1028
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Started about 2 months ago, 3 ten pound bags in the tub for 3-4 minutes in the morning before my workout. I try for 3-4 times a week and it has been a game changer with my recovery. I'd really like to get a legit cold plunge tub at some point but they're a bit pricey.
Andrew Huberman has a good podcast on the subject
His belief is that 11-12 minutes per week is enough so that's what I try to shoot for.
AggieGunslinger
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Andrew Huberman, a neuro scientist at Stanford has been studying this a lot lately. https://hubermanlab.com/

Sorry Maca, didn't read enough of your post.
Max Power
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strohag said:

I think Rogan goes straight into his sauna after ice bath. You don't need a slow warmup.
Rogan has a Blue Cube at his house. He's offered friends of his daughter $1k cash if they can stay in it for a full minute. The issue with the Blue Cube is that not only is it ice cold but it generates a current so you can't develop a thermal buffer by sitting still. This makes it way more difficult to get to a mental space where you can deal with the cold, it's a more brutal experience.
maca1028
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I haven't thought about the affects of a current. That "thermal buffer" helps me get used to it a little quicker when I'm lying still in still water but the second I start moving my arms and legs it starts over and I'm freezing my ass off again.
strbrst777
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strbrst777 said:

Check out Hyper Wellness on University Drive and Copperfield. I have been a 2xweek Cryotonics regular for almost two years. A treatment for me is 3 minutes at 183 below 0 in the nitrogen cooled chamber. A treatment is said to have effect of 30 min or so ice bath. I am closing in on 200 treatments. I plan to continue. Google for info of the things the place has to offer.
. Adding to post. Today I was in the chamber for three minutes at -202 below O...believe that I will stick with -202. Try it, you will like it.
Capitol Ag
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The interesting thing to me is a lot of studies are showing that ice bath/cold baths are actually detrimental to recovery for certain training types. For instance, in hypertrophy, the studies seem to show that ice baths actually increase fatigue and limit recovery. In many cases, growth of the muscle was limited. So, while they might help get rid of soreness potentially, there are quite a few mechanisms involved in recovery and growth and that ice bath as therapy actually limits recovery. The same seems to be true for other types of training as well like strength training. There is still a lot that needs to be studied though. But for people training for strength and/or hypertrophy, it sounds like it's better to stay away from these for recovery as they may have the opposite effect. It also sounds like the same may be true for excessive use of saunas and steam baths as well. Food for thought at least. I do think a lot of stuff in fitness becomes trendy and popular only to be found to not be useful in the long run when science gets involved.
MosesHallEnforcer
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The cold exposure is supposed to be done at least 2 hours after after your workout so it doesn't limit hypertrophy.

I got that info from Ben Greenfield's website. I can hunt for the link.
MosesHallEnforcer
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Link and excerpt:


https://bengreenfieldlife.com/article/the-ultimate-guide-to-cold-thermogenesis-part-2-routine/


"The right timing of your cold exposure depends on your workout and your goals.

If you're looking to increase strength or muscle mass, allow two hours for the body to mount an inflammatory response before taking an ice bath."

"However, if you must do an ice bath post-workout, there are certain instances where that's okay. It can reduce muscle pain and soreness after training sessions and competitions, according to a 2010 study. Aside from using ice baths post-workout as a means of recovery, you should also have a separate recovery plan of action, such as sufficient resting, stretching, a cool-down period vs. stopping abruptly, adequate fluids, etc."

"Right after exercise, you produce pro-inflammatory cytokines which are involved in tissue repair. These macro****es are the type of immune cell that can get produced and activated in response to inflammation including, you guessed it, exercise-induced inflammation. Now, what happens is that when these macro****es get released, they can increase satellite cell migration. Satellite cells are basically like stem cells, and they're associated with the same type of muscle hypertrophy that you get from strength training.

So, you exercise and you get inflammation. There's an anti-inflammatory response, and then anabolic hormones get released. But what's more important to realize here is that a lot of people are under the impression that if you do hefty amounts of cryotherapy you're going to shut down that satellite cell migration, the mitochondrial proliferation, and the IGF-1 (protein synthesis stimulant) response that should occur in response to exercise because you're getting cold and you're decreasing the amount of some of these inflammatory molecules. If you actually dig into the research, you need a 3% to 8% drop in muscle temperature in order for that to occur (learn more in the video at the end of this section). That's the equivalent of about 10 minutes of pretty cold water immersion. I'm not talking about a cold shower, I'm talking about a 10-minute ice bath, and doing that in an acute post-exercise state.

So, if you're doing super-duper cold stuff right after you exercise, there may be a blunting of the hypertrophic response, even though the blunting is pretty slight. You see a small decrease in muscle mass and a small drop in performance. But again, that's acute exposure to really, really cold, like ice baths or cryotherapy chambers."

Mitochondrial biogenesis is the process by which your body creates more mitochondria, and it is regulated in part by the protein PGC1-alpha. When exposed to cold conditions after engaging in physical exercise like running or playing tennis, there may be an increase of PGC1-alpha resulting in larger muscle size with better cellular survival. If you look at, for example, runners, 15 minutes of exposure to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, which is not super cold, following running can increase PGC-1alpha in muscle tissue. Cold therapy has also been seen to blunt inflammation from cytokines such as TNF-alpha; not only leading towards improved performance but overall health too.

If you're looking to reap the benefits of cold therapy without taking extreme measures, there are many alternatives for post-exercise. A long swim in a pool kept cool or walking outdoors during cooler weather can provide similar effects with minimal discomfort. Rather than subjecting yourself to an icy tub every day, you may find that short bouts of colder temperatures strategically timed throughout your regular workout routine yield beneficial results.
maca1028
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Bought a thermometer, took my first measurement this morning and was surprised that it was only 48 degrees. I thought I was getting it much colder than that.
gigemJTH12
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Max Power said:

strohag said:

I think Rogan goes straight into his sauna after ice bath. You don't need a slow warmup.
Rogan has a Blue Cube at his house. He's offered friends of his daughter $1k cash if they can stay in it for a full minute. The issue with the Blue Cube is that not only is it ice cold but it generates a current so you can't develop a thermal buffer by sitting still. This makes it way more difficult to get to a mental space where you can deal with the cold, it's a more brutal experience.
that current idea is why the cold shower is 100x worse than the plunge for me.

take a shower on the coldest setting and you cannot catch your breath the entire time

MISERABLE
Apache
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Rogan's new episode with Andrew Hubermann has a good discussion about cold plunges.

Something I didn't know, cold plunges spike dopamine levels & it tapers off slowly all day. Kinda like a drug.
Mr President Elect
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Have any of you tried the cheap portable cold tubs? They run about $150, was just curious if they are any good. Or does anyone have a recomendation for a decent one that can go in an apartment?
AtlAg05
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I've read about the Wim Hof method, which sounds familiar, there was a poster on here that was an instructor in the method. Maybe they might have tips for cold baths?
Premium
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Not sure about delivery to the USA but I found these that looked pretty cool. Makes real ice from the bottom.

https://www.brassmonkey.co.uk/products/ice-plunge-xl-millboard-steel-finish

https://instagram.com/brassmonkeyice?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Aggietaco
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Morozko Forge is the US option. Equally as ridiculously expensive.

https://www.morozkoforge.com/ice-bath-for-sale

I've looked into these a few times, looked into the chest freezer conversions, the barrels, and even the crappy portable units but haven't pulled the trigger on anything with the hope that something better and more reasonably priced comes to market. Only tub in our house is in the kid's bathroom, so I'm planning to try one of the portables to see if I can stick with it before anything that costs real money. Hoping to help alleviate some new arthritis pains in my knees.
JobSecurity
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For those of you doing it at home with ice how are you doing it so frequently? I've tried once and used two bags plus everything my fridge makes and the water was like 67*. Do you have a dedicated ice maker, or are you buying $10 in ice every day lol
Premium
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JobSecurity said:

For those of you doing it at home with ice how are you doing it so frequently? I've tried once and used two bags plus everything my fridge makes and the water was like 67*. Do you have a dedicated ice maker, or are you buying $10 in ice every day lol


Buy the Yeti tub, only $40,000 - keeps ice for days…
maca1028
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60lbs of ice first thing this morning got me down to 45 degrees. I'm trying the Huberman method of 11-12 minutes a week so I aim for a MWF routine, and yes, unfortunately I'm buying $25-$30 worth a week. I've thought of getting a cheap deep freeze and looking into buying in bulk from a local supplier but haven't taken it that far yet.
AggieGunslinger
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I am waiting until every chest freezer on FB Marketplace isn't being sold as a cold tub and then will pick one up and convert it.
Hincemm
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Mr President Elect said:

Have any of you tried the cheap portable cold tubs? They run about $150, was just curious if they are any good.
any more info on cheaper options?
CaptnCarl
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After listening to Hubberman on JRE, starting to believe there is some actual science behind introducing cold.

For me, I'm leaning towards just a cold shower. I get the same rush and have to force myself to stay in, which is part of the increasing cold environment threshold. My time would be better served on nutrition in the kitchen than loading 60 lbs of ice three days a week. The $3k for a cold tub is not reasonable for me.

Hopefully an home appliance manufacturer begins making these and dramatically reduces the cost.
HUEY04
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When y'all are talking about a cold shower are you doing something to chill the water or just cold domestic water supply? I never use any hot water at all in the shower and here in CS it isn't remotely close to what I would consider cold even in mid-winter.
JeremiahJohnson
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Yeah there are no "cold" showers in CD
Mr President Elect
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My cold water is 52 deg out of the faucet, but I live in Colorado. I'm expecting it to not stay that cold as the outside temps rise.

The portable ones say that the water stays cold for days, so I'm hopeful to be able to just buy a couple of bags a week, but I'm a bit skeptical.
TurboVelo
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Hincemm said:

Mr President Elect said:

Have any of you tried the cheap portable cold tubs? They run about $150, was just curious if they are any good.
any more info on cheaper options?
I use my tub and throw in bags of ice.
NoHo Hank
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Been doing cold showers last two weeks. Temp is set to max cold, which is ~55*. Not Joe Rogan 34* with ice forming, but a damn chilly shower.

Anecdotal evidence as n=1 but I'm not sure I feel like it's helping with recovery. Where I've seen a benefit thus far is 1) I feel more energized/happy after the shower, and 2) it's cold enough that I get super focused on breathing or at least trying to breathe, which is meditative so I walk away from it less stressed. First could be a placebo effect for sure due to novelty, but second is definitely legitimate. It's impossible to focus on other things while taking a cold shower.
Mr President Elect
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I don't think cold showers will do much for recovery, it is more for the dopamine related benefits. Cold tub is more beneficial for recovery.
gigemJTH12
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the cold shower is infinitely harder than cold tub for me

it is so damn hard to catch your breath. get out feeling like a rockstar though.
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