Deus Vult said:

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Ag12thman said:

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This might be a stupid question, but is Whole30 basically a form of a keto diet?

I've been trying to figure out how to make more progress with my overall fitness and I think a lot of my trouble is diet. I have no problem weight training 4 to 5 days per week and also getting some running in, but I have been unsuccessful in getting rid of some stubborn body fat.

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I think the difference is keto shoots for fat and carb targets where Whole30 and Paleo is just removing certain foods from your diet.
What seems to have made the difference for me is removing desserts, alcohol, breads & pasta (any wheat based foods), pototoes, rice, legumes and dairy, not counting the milk in my morning lattes. Also watching foods with excess sugars like miracle whip, ketchup, soda, etc. I don't worry about fat levels in meat, but we end up eating leaner meat more out of what we like to eat versus being forced to choose them by a diet. Lots of fruit and vegetables. I can say I don't have cravings or feel like I am missing something or being deprived in any way.
For us this way of eating should end up being sustainable because we like what we are eating.

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Thanks for the very helpful response. I guess in looking at and trying to learn about what I need to do to make better progress, there are just too many different options out there and several seem to be very similar. So, now I'm spending too much time trying to research what all of these diets are about instead of just getting going on something. This is just a few, which many frequenters of this forum are probably familiar with, but I am not:

• Intermittent Fasting
• Mediterranean Diet
• The Ketogenic Diet
• If It Fits Your Macros
• Veganism
• Carnivore Diet
• Paleo Diet
• Whole30

Seems like Whole30 might be what I'm looking for. I feel like I need something that is pretty structured and I need to cut out sugars and grains as I think I'm having way too much of those still and didn't even realize how much I was consuming. I am also likely not getting near enough protein, based on research I've done so far.

Whole 30 is a great place to start to break your sugar addiction. Yes, you are addicted to sugar. Everyone in America (except those of us who are off of it) is addicted. It's just the way it is. Sugar is in everything. It's even in milk from the grocery store.

Don't do veganism. Vegans are not healthy. We don't have canines to rip and tear the flesh of a tomato.

Once you do these diets you find out that it's not a diet. It's the real way to eat and provide nutrients for your body. Don't believe the "everything in moderation" folks either. Is cocaine or meth ok in moderation?

There is more to losing weight than just calorie deficit. Hormones are affected when we fast. Hormones also change when we put garbage food into our faces. I can eat lots of healthy fat and protein gain no weight because I have my insulin level under control and my body burns fat very efficiently now.

Summary: Quit thinking calories and think about quality.

All those will probably work for you. Don't over complicate it, just find what you think you can best follow. I love carnivore and it's a harder form of keto but I find it easier to go 100% than 90%. But if veganism sounds easier to you, go for that.

Mr President Elect said:

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All those will probably work for you. Don't over complicate it, just find what you think you can best follow. I love carnivore and it's a harder form of keto but I find it easier to go 100% than 90%. But if veganism sounds easier to you, go for that.

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Exactly. Whether they are just different ways to maintain a calorie deficit or they actually do something internally with one's biology beyond the deficit, you try out what you think you can maintain and do it. As long as it is helping you reach the goals you have, keep doing it. I have seen people lose weight on all of these. We can argue all day long about the science behind it, but if you lose and keep the weight off that you want, you win regardless! And in the end, that's the whole point.

Builder93 said:

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Whole 30 is a great place to start to break your sugar addiction. Yes, you are addicted to sugar. Everyone in America (except those of us who are off of it) is addicted. It's just the way it is. Sugar is in everything. It's even in milk from the grocery store.

Don't do veganism. Vegans are not healthy. We don't have canines to rip and tear the flesh of a tomato.

Once you do these diets you find out that it's not a diet. It's the real way to eat and provide nutrients for your body. Don't believe the "everything in moderation" folks either. Is cocaine or meth ok in moderation?

There is more to losing weight than just calorie deficit. Hormones are affected when we fast. Hormones also change when we put garbage food into our faces. I can eat lots of healthy fat and protein gain no weight because I have my insulin level under control and my body burns fat very efficiently now.

Summary: Quit thinking calories and think about quality.

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You're right, I am likely addicted to sugar, even though I don't think I am. I have been trying to cut back no it, but it's hard to do. It's funny you mention milk, since I love milk (but I did know that it, too, has sugar).

I just listed veganism as yet another option that is out there. I have no intention at all of becoming a vegan. I literally could not do it. I am just too much of meat lover to ever even think about veganism. I agree that they are not healthy - at least the ones I know do not look healthy.

That is what I am looking for - something that just becomes what I do for the rest of my life when it comes to nutrition. I just need to reprogram my entire diet. I am not at all an "everything in moderation" type and I totally agree that's not the way to go.

I have always thought quality was important in a diet, but - you're right - there are many that just go "if it fits your macros" and think that is okay long-term. Maybe younger people can do this successfully, but I know that I can't do as well without the quality being middle-aged.

I appreciate all of the advice and info!

Milk has sugar but in most cases it's not added. It's lactose which is natural.

I do Low Carb. Not trying for Ketosis. Don't check if I'm in ketosis or not. Don't care. Maintained same weight after 15 pound loss for ~2 years. Don't want to lose more weight. Happy where I am. Bloodwork excellent.

Meat, Eggs, Cheese, Avocadoes etc. Basically animal products. If you need crunch, pork rinds, or Siete in limited amounts. No beer or non-diet soda.

Oils: Butter, Coconut, Avocado, Olive (avoid any food or packaging with Soybean/Sunflower/Grapeseed/Vegetable/Cottonseed oils. They will cause all kinds of problems to your body, read labels, they are VERY deceptive these days)

Protein Supplement (with low to no carbs) - most people don't get enough protein. We need 2-3 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight.

Take a multivitmin.

Make sure you're getting enough electrolytes (salt) this is the largest cause of "Keto Flu"

No grains, no flour, no pasta, no sugars, no starches, no fruits. Occasionally some cruciferous vegetables (Brussel Sprouts, Asparagus, or Broccolli - but not often).

I eat as much as I want. I don't count calories. I don't care. I eat until I don't want to eat anymore. People look at you funny when you order a ribeye with a side of ribeye. But it works, and sometimes they say "T&P for his arteries" except that just shows they know nothing of the biochemistry of the body or the function of cholesterol.

Happy to help anyone succeed, or provide research articles as well.

The only tip I can provide is that your health is a priority over other people's opinions and social approval. I'm totally fine with social gatherings where I don't eat things that aren't healthy just to "be polite". After a couple years most people know anyway and don't give it a 2nd thought.

https://twitter.com/BlueTeam02

(not selling anything, just have several research articles liked, and follow several M.D./Ph.D/ and Dieticians that also follow a similar nutritional plan I hate the word diet).

This is very similar to what I do. I eat more cruciferous vegetables than you, though.

Builder93 said:

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I eat more cruciferous vegetables than you, though.

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Worst brag ever

I hope you didn't see that as a brag. I have better things to brag about. No, wait, no, I don't.