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Any Neurologist on board?

3,000 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by OasisMan
whatthehey78
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I have an adult son (51 yrs) who began to experience slurred speech approx 2 yrs ago. Has problem drinking liquids, etc. No other known symptoms to date. ALS and MS have been ruled out via MRI's performed late last yr. New Neurologist has run another MRI which ret'd "normal". As I understand it, the Dr. is "thinking" my son has Primary Progressive Nonfluent Aphasia and intends to perform a three dimensional, PET scan next.

Does this sound reasonable?
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
OasisMan
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Cannot rule out ALS with MRI

Is the slurring & trouble swallowing progressively worsening? Or Does it fluctuate in severity from day to day (or even within the day)?

Is is still only swallowing/slurring? Can he read/write no problem?

PPA would be on the differential, but likely on the lower end based on what you've said
whatthehey78
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OasisMan said:

Cannot rule out ALS with MRI

Is the slurring & trouble swallowing progressively worsening? Or Does it fluctuate in severity from day to day (or even within the day)?

Is is still only swallowing/slurring? Can he read/write no problem?

PPA would be on the differential, but likely on the lower end based on what you've said
ETA - I live in Dallas area. He lives in Hou. area.
In reply, the only thing I know is:
1 - ALS and MS were ruled out by his first Neurologist
2 - His speech impediment has worsened over time
3 - I'm not aware (he has not mentioned) whether condition fluctuates
4 - He is seeing a Speech Therapist
5 - No information relative to his writing (size, legibility, etc.). Will inquire.
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
03_Aggie
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Not a Dr. But have they considered/mentioned the possibility of myasthenia gravis? My brother was recently diagnosed with it and one of the early signs was difficulty with speech after eating. Trouble swallowing is also a sign as it appears to impact those muscles most.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/myasthenia-gravis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352036
whatthehey78
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whatthehey78 said:

OasisMan said:

Cannot rule out ALS with MRI

Is the slurring & trouble swallowing progressively worsening? Or Does it fluctuate in severity from day to day (or even within the day)?

Is is still only swallowing/slurring? Can he read/write no problem?

PPA would be on the differential, but likely on the lower end based on what you've said
ETA - I live in Dallas area. He lives in Hou. area.
In reply, the only thing I know is:
1 - ALS and MS were ruled out by his first Neurologist
2 - His speech impediment has worsened over time
3 - I'm not aware (he has not mentioned) whether condition fluctuates
4 - He is seeing a Speech Therapist
5 - No information relative to his writing (size, legibility, etc.). Will inquire.
ETA:
He claims no affect on his writing. Seemingly fluctuates/worsens when he becomes fatigued. He is right handed, but has noticed some/slight weakness on his left side. He works out at a gym regularly.

That's about all I can add at this time. OH...thanks for your query and input. MUCH appreciated!!!
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
whatthehey78
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OasisMan said:

Cannot rule out ALS with MRI

Is the slurring & trouble swallowing progressively worsening? Or Does it fluctuate in severity from day to day (or even within the day)?

Is is still only swallowing/slurring? Can he read/write no problem?

PPA would be on the differential, but likely on the lower end based on what you've said
Oasis:
If the diagnosis turns out to be PPA...is it terminal? Are there treatments?
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
OasisMan
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your description does not sound like a typical PPA case

but PPA is a progressive, neuro-degenerative disorder -- no cure -- some meds can maybe mildly "slow" the progression


if it has not already been done, i would have an EMG/NCS performed w/ a neuro-muscular neurologist (ALS, myasthenia, myopathy, etc)

it is important to have the EMG w/ someone who does a lot -- for instance i could do an EMG tomorrow on someone, but i am a neuro-hospitalist and have not touched an EMG machine in 5+ years
whatthehey78
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OasisMan said:

your description does not sound like a typical PPA case

but PPA is a progressive, neuro-degenerative disorder -- no cure -- some meds can maybe mildly "slow" the progression


if it has not already been done, i would have an EMG/NCS performed w/ a neuro-muscular neurologist (ALS, myasthenia, myopathy, etc)

it is important to have the EMG w/ someone who does a lot -- for instance i could do an EMG tomorrow on someone, but i am a neuro-hospitalist and have not touched an EMG machine in 5+ years
THANKS! Much appreciated.
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
whatthehey78
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I'm aware there are some other Neurologist who peruse this thread. I would appreciate any comments and or recommendations relative to my son's condition. I'm simply a concerned Dad and just trying to cover all the bases associated with his potential diagnosis and treatment. TIA!!!!!!!!!!!
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
txags92
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Not a doc here, but just a thought out of the blue, have they checked his B12 level? My sister had a college friend who started suffering severe neurological issues in his early 50s, and it turned out eventually that his B12 was severely low due to an issue with uptake in his GI system.
whatthehey78
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OasisMan said:

your description does not sound like a typical PPA case

but PPA is a progressive, neuro-degenerative disorder -- no cure -- some meds can maybe mildly "slow" the progression


if it has not already been done, i would have an EMG/NCS performed w/ a neuro-muscular neurologist (ALS, myasthenia, myopathy, etc)

it is important to have the EMG w/ someone who does a lot -- for instance i could do an EMG tomorrow on someone, but i am a neuro-hospitalist and have not touched an EMG machine in 5+ years
Just spoke with my son on the phone and asked him whether his neurologist had performed an EMG. He said he had and "it lit him up" (his words) and that he had passed with "flying colors". Oddly, he did add that the results indicated he had "carpal tunnel" in one or both of his wrists, which I suppose is fairly normal for someone in the IT industry?? The only test that hasn't been performed to date is a 3D PET scan.

ETA - How is a PPA diagnosis usually made?
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
OasisMan
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a clinical call based on the history and exam

neuroimaging is more of a supplementation
whatthehey78
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OasisMan said:

a clinical call based on the history and exam

neuroimaging is more of a supplementation
OasisMan - Do appreciate your feedback. The wife and I have been blessed with sons and grandkids and have practically experienced no ill health problems. Only exception is wife, who's had MS for 48 yrs (1st exacerbation in '73, retro-bulbular neuritis). Now, all of a sudden we've had one grandson (Sr. at A&M/Dec. '21 Grad) who was recently diagnosed with Epilepsy and then our oldest son that's experiencing this speech/lower mandible issue. His speech is becoming difficult to understand and sometimes he seems to choke on his saliva. He has "follow-up" appt. on the 25th. Might learn more then.

AGAIN...I just want to THANK YOU!!! and I fully understand your probable hesitancy in replying for professional reasons and personal/medical implication. Never-the-less, I and the wife APPRECIATE your valued input. ETA - Wife and GI Bill put this "old" Ag thru A&M. Both or her bros. are A&M grads as well.
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
YokelRidesAgain
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whatthehey78 said:

I'm aware there are some other Neurologist who peruse this thread. I would appreciate any comments and or recommendations relative to my son's condition. I'm simply a concerned Dad and just trying to cover all the bases associated with his potential diagnosis and treatment. TIA!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm the other neurologist here, that I know of.

General thoughts:

1) The thing here that strikes us as odd is that you are describing more of a motor problem (dysfunction of muscles of speech and swallowing), whereas the diagnosis that is being suggested (primary progressive aphasia) is a problem with language and cognition, and is a form of frontotemporal dementia. People with PPA have difficulties expressing themselves via written language as well and usually there are issues with grammar and word-finding difficulties (paraphasias, e.g., not being able to come up with the word you want to say or using the wrong term). If all of this is normal in your son and he is solely having difficulty pronouncing words and swallowing, I would be skeptical of that diagnosis.

2) There can sometimes be overlap between certain conditions in these areas: for example, frontotemporal dementia and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) occur as a complex in some cases.

3) ALS can begin with involvement of muscles affecting speech and swallowing (bulbar onset ALS)--I would want to know whether the neurologist tested any muscles in the face or tongue with a needle during the EMG (not all neurologists will be comfortable examining those muscles). Nonetheless, after 2 years most people with ALS would have involvement of the arms and legs as well.

4) A definite diagnosis of PPA, like most dementias, is generally only made at pathologic examination of the brain after life, in the context of a clinical history.

5) PET scan of the brain is useful in differentiating Alzheimer's disease from frontotemporal dementias, in many cases, based on what part of the brain is showing reduced activity. If the PET scan is entirely normal, on the other hand, both diagnoses are quite unlikely.

My primary recommendation is that your son be seen at an academic neurology department (that is, one associated with a medical school), if that has not happened already. Primary progressive aphasia is not a common disease and I would be concerned about that diagnosis being rendered by a community (private practice) neurologist, in most cases--although certainly there are exceptions.
whatthehey78
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YokelRidesAgain said:

whatthehey78 said:

I'm aware there are some other Neurologist who peruse this thread. I would appreciate any comments and or recommendations relative to my son's condition. I'm simply a concerned Dad and just trying to cover all the bases associated with his potential diagnosis and treatment. TIA!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm the other neurologist here, that I know of.

General thoughts:

1) The thing here that strikes us as odd is that you are describing more of a motor problem (dysfunction of muscles of speech and swallowing), whereas the diagnosis that is being suggested (primary progressive aphasia) is a problem with language and cognition, and is a form of frontotemporal dementia. People with PPA have difficulties expressing themselves via written language as well and usually there are issues with grammar and word-finding difficulties (paraphasias, e.g., not being able to come up with the word you want to say or using the wrong term). If all of this is normal in your son and he is solely having difficulty pronouncing words and swallowing, I would be skeptical of that diagnosis.

2) There can sometimes be overlap between certain conditions in these areas: for example, frontotemporal dementia and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) occur as a complex in some cases.

3) ALS can begin with involvement of muscles affecting speech and swallowing (bulbar onset ALS)--I would want to know whether the neurologist tested any muscles in the face or tongue with a needle during the EMG (not all neurologists will be comfortable examining those muscles). Nonetheless, after 2 years most people with ALS would have involvement of the arms and legs as well.

4) A definite diagnosis of PPA, like most dementias, is generally only made at pathologic examination of the brain after life, in the context of a clinical history.

5) PET scan of the brain is useful in differentiating Alzheimer's disease from frontotemporal dementias, in many cases, based on what part of the brain is showing reduced activity. If the PET scan is entirely normal, on the other hand, both diagnoses are quite unlikely.

My primary recommendation is that your son be seen at an academic neurology department (that is, one associated with a medical school), if that has not happened already. Primary progressive aphasia is not a common disease and I would be concerned about that diagnosis being rendered by a community (private practice) neurologist, in most cases--although certainly there are exceptions.
Many thanks! Will certainly take every comment into consideration. I don't think a diagnosis has officially been made, as yet. I suspect the Dr. might have mentioned the "possibility" of PPA as a cause.

As you might (?) understand, my son seems to be reluctant to want to dwell on the problem. I don't know if it's because of individual fear or not wanting to worry Mom and Dad. He claims he has no other symptoms he is aware of, with the exception of slight weakness (almost unnoticeable) on his left side. He is continuing to work, drive and regularly workout. He has always been fit and on the somewhat muscular side. Does not smoke or drink. I'm rambling...so, again let me THANK YOU for "jumping in".

ETA - His speech impediment began approx. 4 to 6 mos. after a heart attack. He's had 4 stints placed by Cardiologist. Been on beta blockers and blood pressure meds since. Heart disease is definitely genetic in my and his pool.

ETA 2 - Speaking of Med School conducting suggested tests...to your knowledge, is A&M capable of doing this?
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Ag9701
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If he is in Houston, he should be able to find a great Neurologist at Baylor College of Medicine, Methodist or UT Houston. The Texas Medical Ctr is a great place for pts with neurological disorders.
whatthehey78
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Latest MRI (2nd) results = "Negative" (normal??)
Doing lab/blood tests Friday. Testing cortisol and adrenal levels
Scheduling PET scan next.
Yes. Son lives in Houston

Comments/feedback requested/welcome. TIA!
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
administrative errors
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OasisMan said:

Cannot rule out ALS with MRI

Is the slurring & trouble swallowing progressively worsening? Or Does it fluctuate in severity from day to day (or even within the day)?

Is is still only swallowing/slurring? Can he read/write no problem?

PPA would be on the differential, but likely on the lower end based on what you've said


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OasisMan
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wow
thx for the link
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