I know people always talk about the Higdon plans, but I think I could benefit from having longer long runs than what he has in his plans. What are some of your other favorite plans? I'm looking to get faster times.

longer run doesn't exactly equate to faster times.

if you want to go faster, you should look at doing quality workouts.

How long have you been running? Why do you think you've mastered Higdons plans?

The Pilot said:

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How long have you been running? Why do you think you've mastered Higdons plans?

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I've done 3 half marathons so far, with some smaller races throughout. I started running about a year ago. I don't necessarily think that I've mastered Higdon's plans, just wondering if something different might work better for me. I always hear people say that if you want to run faster, you have to run further. It could just be a mental thing, but I have trouble pushing myself the last few miles of the half. I think it could also be where I think, well this is as far as I've run in my training, so I don't know if I can push these last couple of miles. In this last race, my body felt great, except my legs just felt like they couldn't go anymore. I attribute that to undertraining, but in my previous race, I was doing awesome. I felt great. I was going to set a great PR, then my IT band went on a downhill. I know nothing could have prevented that other than trying to be a hero on a downhill, but I keep wondering if longer runs would help me keep it together at the end.

Can someone explain why the Higdon plans are better than the Galloway plans, that do have you running more than 13 miles on your longest run?

You aren't getting what we are saying. If you want to run faster, you need to run faster, not farther. Quality workouts are the key, not longer runs. Speed and tempo work are your best friends. Longer runs won't hurt you, but they won't make you faster, they will help you run farther at the same pace.

When I want to run faster I get on the treadmill and use the sprint/jog feature. Set the incline and sprint pace so that I really exert myself. Then during the jog interval and eliminate the incline and slow the pace to catch my breath. Repeat 8 times or so in a session. 30 second sprint 1:30 jog. Do this for several days and will see half second or so come off my 5k pace. Then I take that pace and extend to 5 or 6.2 miles and now my 10k is nearly at that pace.

Have you checked Higdon Intermediate 2 for Half? That gives a good idea of how to work on speed.

If you just want to look at something besides higdon, look into a Hanson's program (with speed workouts). Their programs are good enough to win the Boston marathon.

And to prove longer distance doesn't make you faster, Hanson never goes over 16 miles for their marathon training programs.

bert harbinson said:

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Have you checked Higdon Intermediate 2 for Half? That gives a good idea of how to work on speed.

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I have looked into that, but that plan has you running 5 days a week. I tried doing that the last round and I felt like I was set up for failure. My body wasn't quite ready for that many back to back days of running.

I've looked at plans with speed work, and I started working in hills, and was planning to do some intervals, but multiple things went wrong for me, including trying to run 5 days per week. This time I plan to run probably 4 days per week and add in some cross training.

I just though having a run as long or longer than the half in training might help me get past the hurdle of mentally falling apart and walking some at the end. That's really what's killing my time.

Based on what you have said, it's probably not oversimplifying to say you need more intervals and less distance. You kinda said it yourself in your last post.

I used that plan as a guideline (ran fewer days per week, as you mentioned). It's a bit aggressive, but even modified it works. Of course other plans may suit you better.

I'm far from an expert, but in my experience going up to 5 days a week really helped me.

I've got to say that speed workouts have helped me the most. I feel like the endurance at the end of the race comes not from running longer but being trained to run harder (faster).

AggieOO said:

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And to prove longer distance doesn't make you faster, Hanson never goes over 16 miles for their marathon training programs.

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This is what I can't get over. Forgive me because I haven't looked at this training plan.

Someone runs a max of 16 miles (along with all the other training), can then be expected to run 26.2 miles?

Yes. Its how the rest of the miles are structured.

JHUAggie said:

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AggieOO said:

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And to prove longer distance doesn't make you faster, Hanson never goes over 16 miles for their marathon training programs.

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This is what I can't get over. Forgive me because I haven't looked at this training plan.

Someone runs a max of 16 miles (along with all the other training), can then be expected to run 26.2 miles?

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i have never run a full marathon, but my understanding is that marathon training is like pinching a water hose. You build and build and build your total base miles over a period of time. Then you taper, ie; don't run for several days. You then release all of those miles at once.

Ragoo said:

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JHUAggie said:

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AggieOO said:

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And to prove longer distance doesn't make you faster, Hanson never goes over 16 miles for their marathon training programs.

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This is what I can't get over. Forgive me because I haven't looked at this training plan.

Someone runs a max of 16 miles (along with all the other training), can then be expected to run 26.2 miles?

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i have never run a full marathon, but my understanding is that marathon training is like pinching a water hose. You build and build and build your total base miles over a period of time. Then you taper, ie; don't run for several days. You then release all of those miles at once.

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What I can't get over is the fact that I run around 50 miles a week. It's usually around the same distance every day. Fifty miles is around the max mileage during the training weeks on Hanson's advanced marathon plan. To shift those miles around a little bit and do a little speed work (which I do on occasion) I could be ready for a marathon following this plan.

I just can't see myself running a marathon on so few miles. My mind is blown. I would be so afraid of bonking or walking the last half of it.

More miles is generally always better, but the number of miles should never trump quality of miles.

I have a runner who just ran Boston that I've been working with the last two years. He's maybe been over 50 miles once, he has a 3:08, 3:04 and just ran a 3:09 in Boston.

The Pilot said:

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More miles is generally always better, but the number of miles should never trump quality of miles.

I have a runner who just ran Boston that I've been working with the last two years. He's maybe been over 50 miles once, he has a 3:08, 3:04 and just ran a 3:09 in Boston.

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what do you consider quality?

Ragoo said:

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The Pilot said:

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More miles is generally always better, but the number of miles should never trump quality of miles.

I have a runner who just ran Boston that I've been working with the last two years. He's maybe been over 50 miles once, he has a 3:08, 3:04 and just ran a 3:09 in Boston.

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what do you consider quality?

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Just don't run miles to hit a number. A lot of folks just see a program and it says 5 miles, 3 miles, 12 miles and they go out and trudge through those miles without any thought. Always try to get something out of each run. Tempo runs, speed work intervals, long runs, recovery runs. Each day should have a set goal almost.

JHUAggie said:

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What I can't get over is the fact that I run around 50 miles a week. It's usually around the same distance every day. Fifty miles is around the max mileage during the training weeks on Hanson's advanced marathon plan. To shift those miles around a little bit and do a little speed work (which I do on occasion) I could be ready for a marathon following this plan.

I just can't see myself running a marathon on so few miles. My mind is blown. I would be so afraid of bonking or walking the last half of it.

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If you're following the Hanson Brothers plan and not seeing a benefit or don't believe it's enough, you're a freaking stud. Their plan is not super high mileage, but quality runs and a lot of them. Sounds like your mileage is inline with plan, perhaps quickening your pace and already mentioned speed work, in order to push yourself harder? Either way, good luck.

I can second that quality miles are way more important than quantity. I reduced my weekly runs to 4 but did some real hard tempo stuff for my last HM and PR'd by 4 minutes. Never ran longer than 10.

The Pilot said:

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More miles is generally always better, but the number of miles should never trump quality of miles.

I have a runner who just ran Boston that I've been working with the last two years. He's maybe been over 50 miles once, he has a 3:08, 3:04 and just ran a 3:09 in Boston.

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If he would eat a sandwich or two, maybe he wouldn't get hypothermic in cold weather and hold his 3:05 pace for the entire race.

What's your current base and how far out is the perspective marathon?

The cornerstone of any marathon training plan should be the long run, next level up should be a harder run (tempo, speed work, hills). If any of those are suffering or you're unable to finish the long run, gotta scale back the miles.