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Crossfit games and nativity.

16,472 Views | 122 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by dave99ag
BallerStaf2003
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11:39p, 7/27/15
AG
I think crossfit is more interesting to discuss the aas use within it because anybody into bodybuilding or weight training knows it's IMPOSSIBLE to keep that sort of size without a lot of steroids and other compounds.

The contrast is so stark that when people claim their top crossfit athletes are clean, it's hard not to laugh in their face.

Cycling they're so lean it's not so obvious, same as other sports.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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4:08a, 7/28/15
They had the Crossfit Games on tv when I was at the gym the other day. I'm very confident that a lot of the competitors, men and women, were PED-built. They had far too much muscle mass to be all natural.

Here's an example:


Look at the shoulders, traps, and pecs she has. Maybe she's a genetic abnormality, but women normally can't get close to that amount of muscle mass, even if they've lifted regularly with heavy weight for years. To do it at her thinness makes it even less plausible.
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BallerStaf2003
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 6:29a, 7/28/15
AG
Not to mention everything they do is high intensity. High intensity training should make you very lean bc you're burning muscle and fat.
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Vander
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 7:37a, 7/28/15
AG
quote:
Yet somehow the only threads we ever see about this sort of stuff references CrossFit and CrossFit only, never any other sport.


Wait what? Everyone is using gear of some sort at the top level of every sport. When you're talking about the kind of money these people can make and that the difference between using and not using may mean millions, yeah you can bet your ass that they will use as much as they can get away with. Only the incredibly naive believe sports are clean.

The only reason I rag on Crossfit about this is because of the cult like devotion of its followers who somehow think their sport is above the rest for some unknown reason. Steroids are just as rampant in Crossfit as they are in everything else. You cannot attain the physique many of the competitors at the professional competitions have without them.
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Vander
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 7:42a, 7/28/15
AG
quote:
They had the Crossfit Games on tv when I was at the gym the other day. I'm very confident that a lot of the competitors, men and women, were PED-built. They had far too much muscle mass to be all natural.

Here's an example:


Look at the shoulders, traps, and pecs she has. Maybe she's a genetic abnormality, but women normally can't get close to that amount of muscle mass, even if they've lifted regularly with heavy weight for years. To do it at her thinness makes it even less plausible.


Hahahahahah holy **** is she using all sorts of gear. The capped shoulders and large traps are a textbook indication because no one has that naturally, especially not women.

All of the women who compete at that level look like that, huge and low bodyfat%.

I think the reason people think they are natural is because the average person has no idea what a natural physique looks like due to having literally never seen one in fitness media or in professional sports where everyone is using.
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Pahdz
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9:01a, 7/28/15
I have some friends, both he and his wife are really in to CF here. She was a college pole vaulter so she was already athletic, but since she's done CF she's got that typical CF girl body (big quads, etc). Even she was commenting the other night while watching the games at a party we were at about how unnatural the women at the CF games look, so there are those within the community who admit there are probably some shenanigans going on.
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bthotugigem05
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9:10a, 7/28/15
AG
To my knowledge there was only one male CF Games individual athlete that had a full-time job NOT as a CF coach. Many of the competitors don't even coach, they train for a living with sponsors covering their costs. So it's hard to compare body types between even some pretty good CrossFit athletes who work a day job versus someone who has the ability to train pretty much all day every day.

Not saying shenanigans aren't happening, just trying to add some context.
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Pahdz
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 9:23a, 7/28/15
fair enough, I get that
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AggieOO
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9:28a, 7/28/15
this is the analogy I've always used to explain doping in cycling (and other endurance sports) to those who aren't into the sport, but it applies to all sports.

Let's say you worked all your life toward a single goal of gaining your dream job in sales. (I work in sales right now, so its the easiest analogy. everyone knows their dream job isn't in sales, but bear with me) Now let's pretend that your current employer is not only the highest paying sales job/organization on the planet, its really the only one out there other than a few small players that barely pay anything, if at all. If you lost your job, you really aren't sure what you'd do with your life. Now pretend that the entire sales force is incredibly competitive, and they'll regularly cut the bottom performers and bring in new people to fill the void. After a while, you find that you are slipping dangerously close to the bottom performers, and you have a wife and kids at home depending on your paycheck. Now you find out that 90% of the people around you are taking a pill that causes them to sell 25-50% more than you without them having to do a single thing, and there's very little chance they get caught. And even if they do, there's a good chance they'll just get a slap on the wrist. You probably have no or only partial education and no other work experience. What do you do?

obviously that mostly explains the middle of the pack types, not the ego-driven people like Lance, but it really makes people understand why doping is so rampant. Even those who might not normally dope can easily fall into it.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 10:46a, 7/28/15
quote:
To my knowledge there was only one male CF Games individual athlete that had a full-time job NOT as a CF coach. Many of the competitors don't even coach, they train for a living with sponsors covering their costs. So it's hard to compare body types between even some pretty good CrossFit athletes who work a day job versus someone who has the ability to train pretty much all day every day.

Not saying shenanigans aren't happening, just trying to add some context.


One of the big myths in lifting is that more = better, linearly, off into infinty. In fact, as far as muscle building is concerned, once you're onto a good lifting schedule you're going to cap out your gains after maybe 90 minutes per day. Phil Heath, the pro bodybuilder who's the current Mr. Olympia (juiced out of his freaking mind and lives to build muscle mass) only lifts 2ish hours per day. So no the fact that these crossfit competitors work out all day doesn't mean that they should be on another plane of existence as far as muscle mass is concerned. Really, all that extra cardio should make them LESS muscular than the guy who crushes it in the weight room for an hour before work and that's it.

Point is, should not look at the Crossfit Games for how jacked you can get naturally. You cannot build that much mass at that bf% without some PEDs. It's not that they're working out more and if you only had more time, you'd look like that too.
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Vander
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10:47a, 7/28/15
AG
That's exactly the reason why steroids are rampant in sports. They can mean the difference between making the NFL, MLB, etc. and being stuck in development hell for a decade. True using gear doesn't guarantee success but it will significantly improve your chances. When it comes down to a difference of millions of dollars or losing your entire livelihood/dream, most people would use without a second thought especially if they understand that no one cares or see others using for gains.

At the top level guys use because everyone is so good that any small advantage, even a minute one, can mean the difference between winning and losing.
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PhiAggie
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In reply to Clem • 10:49a, 7/28/15
AG
Methodology of training?

What is the "methodology" of training for crossfit?
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to Vander • 10:55a, 7/28/15
Right? I hesitate to speak in absolutes because I'm sure that there are a few complete freaks on earth that defy normal rules, but... that's what juicing looks like. Women can't look like that normally.
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Vander
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 10:55a, 7/28/15
AG
quote:
quote:
To my knowledge there was only one male CF Games individual athlete that had a full-time job NOT as a CF coach. Many of the competitors don't even coach, they train for a living with sponsors covering their costs. So it's hard to compare body types between even some pretty good CrossFit athletes who work a day job versus someone who has the ability to train pretty much all day every day.

Not saying shenanigans aren't happening, just trying to add some context.


One of the big myths in lifting is that more = better, linearly, off into infinty. In fact, as far as muscle building is concerned, once you're onto a good lifting schedule you're going to cap out your gains after maybe 90 minutes per day. Phil Heath, the pro bodybuilder who's the current Mr. Olympia (juiced out of his freaking mind and lives to build muscle mass) only lifts 2ish hours per day. So no the fact that these crossfit competitors work out all day doesn't mean that they should be on another plane of existence as far as muscle mass is concerned. Really, all that extra cardio should make them LESS muscular than the guy who crushes it in the weight room for an hour before work and that's it.

Point is, should not look at the Crossfit Games for how jacked you can get naturally. You cannot build that much mass at that bf% without some PEDs. It's not that they're working out more and if you only had more time, you'd look like that too.


Eh there is still debate about volume training. Some bodybuilders train like 4 hours a day and get phenomenal results from it. Some bodybuilders go low rep/high weight (Ronnie Coleman is one of these types) while others concentrate on perfect form, full extensions, and high volume workouts with a mid range amount of weight (see Rich Piana). Arnold was a combo, he did a huge amount of volume but also high weight and no one can deny he has the best chest in history.

The thing that people need to realize is that you should rarely take advice from a person who uses gear about workout type or length. Steroids allow for almost instant recovery, which in turn allow for very long workouts. That is, soreness and especially DOMS do not happen while using. They will have good advice on exercises and form, but their volume and and routine are designed for gear users, not normal people.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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11:02a, 7/28/15
I've seen that, but at minimum you can see that volume training doesn't automatically put a person in another strata. "I lift for an hour a day and he does crossfit for six hours per day so I can't expect to be close to his ripped-ness." is not an accurate statement.
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AggieOO
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11:06a, 7/28/15
btw - i still can't get the image of baby jesus and the wisemen doing kipping pull-ups in a stable out of my head.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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11:08a, 7/28/15
The other thing to note is that drugs reduce recovery time. So a bodybuilder might be able to see benefit from four hours of lifting per day, but he's on a multi-drug stack and therefore on a completely different recovery schedule than a normal person.
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Vander
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 12:25p, 7/28/15
AG
quote:
The other thing to note is that drugs reduce recovery time. So a bodybuilder might be able to see benefit from four hours of lifting per day, but he's on a multi-drug stack and therefore on a completely different recovery schedule than a normal person.


That's what I was saying. Gear = instant recovery from a workout. Many of these guys workout for hours a day with sporadic breaks because they can actually do it and receive benefit from it.

A perfect example of this level of insanity is Rich Piana's 8 hour arms where he does skullcrushers and curls for 8 straight hours. A routine like this is only and I mean only possible with gear. Thankfully Piana is entirely honest about his use of steroids, so people don't think that this is what you need to do to get big.

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Pahdz
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In reply to AggieOO • 4:25p, 7/28/15
Wait, is this a meme? I need a link
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AggieOO
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4:36p, 7/28/15
no, just an image i have in my head. though i did google search "crossfit nativity" when i first saw this thread, but not luck with anything useable.
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AggieOO
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4:38p, 7/28/15
though this did come up under "paleo christmas"
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Pahdz
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4:38p, 7/28/15
GTFO
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Woody2006
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3:07p, 7/29/15
AG
During last year's games they interview Rich Froning and asked him about PEDs. He fidgeted uncomfortably and said "It's not a problem in crossfit, and honestly I don't even know how it would help in our sport" or something to that effect.

It was priceless.
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Furlock Bones
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5:19p, 7/29/15
AG


good lord
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Vander
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5:39p, 7/29/15
AG
She has more muscle mass than the guy behind her and is even more lean. Nope, no PEDs there.

Granted I don't honestly care either way because she's hot as ****.
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bmks270
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8:57p, 7/29/15
AG
It's pretty obvious peds are rampant for the females.

When females arms have that much size and definition, and even some of them their chests looks like men... how could anyone conclude otherwise?

I knew some strong female olympic lifters in highschool that got kind of bulky, and big legs and shoulders, but these crossfit women physiques blow them completely away. Not natural, no way.

For the guys Its a lot harder to tell. I think some are probably clean and just freaks and many are probably using PEDS. The recovery is where peds will really be an advantage.
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Vander
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1:08p, 7/30/15
AG
Check their traps and capped delts, it's the easiest way to tell for men because that is the area with the highest amount androgen receptors so it will respond a lot more than other muscles. Also check their height and weight along with any sign that bodyfat% is well under 10 (like 7% or so). Basically if their FFMI (fat free mass index) is above the natural limit of 25, then they are not natural. This is how you can tell if athletes are natural or not as well. Basically if some guy is 6', 220 lbs and 6% bf, he isn't remotely natural.
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bmks270
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4:18p, 7/30/15
AG
FFMI is not a limit... it is an averaged limit.

Apparently an early 1900s strongman had a FFMI of 27. It's hard to know what their body fat % was so maybe it's off.
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BBDP
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7:56p, 7/30/15
AG
You may be able to beat a cheater once in a while, but you will never beat a cheater consistently without cheating. If a few of the losers are on gear, all of the winners are.... It makes that much difference. Gear helps perception, reaction, spead, coordination, strength, stamina, recovery, and size.
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Quinn
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9:17p, 7/30/15
AG
Is JJ Watt on something or nah?

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BBDP
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9:27p, 7/30/15
AG

Has been at some point based on my theory above.

Gear has been used in all money sports sine the 60's.

People don't play sports competitively against 25 year old cheaters at 40 years old without cheating also.
Hank Aaron, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens all played beyond natural limits against known cheaters and dominated.
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Furlock Bones
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In reply to Quinn • 10:00p, 7/30/15
AG
Yes he's taking some type of PEDs.
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Vander
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In reply to Quinn • 10:59p, 7/30/15
AG
quote:
Is JJ Watt on something or nah?



Without question yes. ALL NFL players use, you cannot compete without them. Gear has been rampant in the NFL since the 70s at least. Now with designer steroids and all sorts of other ****, these guys can attain the size of bodybuilders at times.
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bigtruckguy3500
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11:35p, 7/30/15
What about Jeff Bagwell. Anyone have any thoughts on him? He was dominating when he was young, but it was about the same time we started seeing some massive numbers being put up in the MLB, before anyone started questioning it.
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bmks270
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12:43a, 7/31/15
AG
In only a few minutes of googling I found a few steroid forums with threads people asking abut and talking about best peds to use for crossfit, some threads were years old and the people didn't even really compete seriously.

People use at every level, and I think body composition too. I think there's probably plenty of users just looking for quick results without work that probably are less impressive than dedicated natural athletes.
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