He's right, imho. Excerpts:

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Large electric vehicles like pickup trucks and SUVs aren't exactly flying off showroom floors. When the CEO of one of the big three says vehicles like his halo electric truck have some "unresolvable" problems, that's what we call raw honesty. According to InsideEVs, Ford CEO Jim Farley made an ominous statement on the company's fourth-quarter earnings call.

"For larger retail, electric utilities, the economics are unresolvable," Farley stated. "These customers have very demanding use cases for an electric vehicle. They tow, they go off-road, they take long road trips. These vehicles have worse aerodynamics, and they're very heavy, which means very large and expensive batteries." He went on to say that the blue oval would focus on small to medium-sized electric vehicles that present a stronger economic case.

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Ford now wants to build a midsize all-electric truck that would slot in below its F-150 Lightning. It would be based on the brand's "Skunkworks" platform, which is also used for an expansive line of efficient vehicles, including hybrids and extended-range electric vehicles (EREVs). EREVs use an electric powertrain like an EV, but they are supplemented by an onboard gas-powered generator that recharges the battery during normal driving, bumping the range.

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As other automakers backpedal their once aggressive EV plans, they must simultaneously reassess what types of EVs they will pursue. Many automobile manufacturers had once planned to go electric across all segments, but now the formula seems to be broken for larger, more expensive EVs that don't seem to draw large numbers of customers.

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Porsche has come to the same realization and is reprioritizing the combustion engine.

I said it when Ford introduced the Lightning. It's for people that like the idea of an electric F150. You're not going to be successful converting an ICE buyer to electric.

That being said, I'm about to roll 45K on my Lightning. It's been great, does almost everything I need it to do. I drive 150-180 miles a day for work and it's been solid except for one computer issue.

There's only been a handful of times where I've been inconvenienced or annoyed at the range or having to charge outside of the house. But unlike most people, I have other gas vehicles I can take if I need to take a long trip.

Would I replace it with another one? I'm mixed.

I have considered the hybrid Maverick, but feel the bed is just too small.

The Ranger is a great size but is priced too close to half to territory and half ton fuel economy.

The value leader is really an STX F150 and I like the 2.7L Ecoboost for its power, fuel economy, and durability.

There's a reason Tesla makes the vehicles it does and has stayed away from large size trucks and SUV. The economics aren't there. Remember that it was Ford who said it was done with cars except Mustang and now they can't figure out how to apply the technology to their fleet. Make good cars for a change. I have a Model Y and it's exceedingly good for my lifestyle. I could have gotten an Explorer and been fine as well and I think an EV Explorer would have a chance.

On the other hand let's talk tech. Last week I had a friend in my Y who owns a Mustang Mach E. We used FSD from University and 6 to a coffee shop at Barron and 6. He was blown away by the car pulling up outside of the coffee shop with me not having touched it in 5+ miles with turns, lane changes, traffic , etc. Tesla is selling a vehicle that's more advanced than anything else out there. An EV Explorer may not compete well because it's an Explorer first and a technologically advanced vehicle second. The push towards autonomy has set Tesla apart in the segment they compete in and until they figure out how to close that gap I suspect Ford will continue to struggle in the EV space where consumers want the technology that Tesla has.

FSD does absolutely NOTHING for me.

I actually like the Lightning, because it looks like a real vehicle. Why do all other electric vehicles have to look so damn ugly? Just put an electric motor in what are otherwise regular looking vehicles.

Just slapping a battery and electric motors in a normal ICE platform is part of the reason Ford and GM EV's suck. Granted it doesn't need to be as polarizing as a cybertruck

redag06 said:

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FSD does absolutely NOTHING for me.

I actually like the Lightning, because it looks like a real vehicle. Why do all other electric vehicles have to look so damn ugly? Just put an electric motor in what are otherwise regular looking vehicles.

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You don't have to like or want FSD to appreciate that it's changing the market. When we first got my Y Mrs LOYAL AG said "no way" but after two drives and using it to come get us in a cold wet parking lot she was sold. It's simply a fantastic technology that sets Tesla apart. Ignoring that all other vehicles are years behind I think a decade from now all new cars will have a similar system and a decade later more people will let the car drive than drive themselves. It may happen faster but it will happen. I took it to Dallas a couple of weeks ago and literally didn't intervene for well over an hour. Bryan to Ennis then again from Ennis to Coit and Campbell. At this point I drive because I want to, I let the car drive most of the time. It's extremely good.

I do agree in the look of most EV. Tesla generally looks like a normal car except Cybertruck and Rivian looks "normal" as well. Most legacy manufacturers seem to want the EV to stand out and that's just bad decision. I do feel like that's slowly going away. We'll see.

GAC06 said:

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Just slapping a battery and electric motors in a normal ICE platform is part of the reason Ford and GM EV's suck. Granted it doesn't need to be as polarizing as a cybertruck

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I think most people don't want to drive a polarizing design that screams "look at me". I.e. different Prius generations, Cybertruck, some of Hyundais really odd EV designs. Etc.

What Ford needs: Coyote station wagon

I could go for a powerboost Expedition, but am glad for this return to sanity of pausing the push for full EV in every application.

redag06 said:

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I actually like the Lightning, because it looks like a real vehicle. Why do all other electric vehicles have to look so damn ugly? Just put an electric motor in what are otherwise regular looking vehicles.

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I came across the Scout truck which is supposed to be ready in '28. I think it's the best looking electric vehicle and definitely electric truck I've seen (except maybe the Lightning because it's just an F150).

I put a deposit on the Scout Traveler - should run for 150 miles on the battery before the ICE kicks in to extend the range to 500+ miles. Seems to be a good blend of around town with the ability to road trip/off road/tow.

tk for tu juan said:

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What Ford needs: Coyote station wagon

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Whipple Coyote Expedition

Call it the Thunder

P.H. Dexippus said:

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I could go for a powerboost Expedition, but am glad for this return to sanity of pausing the push for full EV in every application.

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It's coming.

They are very similar and I like the Rivian but it's still just a bit off. The Scout, for me, removes some of the typical, stupid, electric vehicle styling the Rivian has.

AgLA06 said:

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chickencoupe16 said:

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redag06 said:

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I actually like the Lightning, because it looks like a real vehicle. Why do all other electric vehicles have to look so damn ugly? Just put an electric motor in what are otherwise regular looking vehicles.

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I came across the Scout truck which is supposed to be ready in '28. I think it's the best looking electric vehicle and definitely electric truck I've seen (except maybe the Lightning because it's just an F150).

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Looks almost identical to a Rivian Truck. Just different shaped headlights.

The problem is unless you just want to drive something that looks like a truck with no expectation to get any truck use (towing, hauling) than great. And hunting / offroading in the mountain west is a no go. But even the extended range models only get the equivalent of a single tank of gas with both electric and hybrid combined. Just with only a fraction of the support network.

Unless something has changed, they're still skewing the data on charging stations to gas stations. It used to be no matter how many pumps at a gas station, that was 1 gas station. However, every charger at an EV charging station was counted differently. Real numbers of unique locations were supposedly 5% of the locations as gas stations. And most only in high populations areas (northeast, california, and large cities like Houston and Dallas). A third of the counties in the nation still don't even have a single EV charger.

So EV's are still only practical for local driving and isolated high population corridors.

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In December 2020, the Department of Energy reported that there were nearly 29,000 public charging stations nationwide. By February 2024, that number had increased to more than 61,000 stations. Over 95% of the American public now lives in a county that has at least one public EV charging station.

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Here's a map of just Tesla chargers.

I love it when people talk about "needing" 500 miles of range and yet want to bring the boat, and the dog, and the side x side, and, and, and....


Y'all never drive more than 150 miles at a stretch before refilling the big Yeti and draining the little yeti. Especially if you've got the dog and the kids with you.


Let's just all agree that EV light trucks don't make any dam sense at all.

EV city cars? All for it!
EV delivery trucks/postal jeeps/busses? Yes please.........

F150? Hell no.

nortex97 said:

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They were going to build a 'volume' unit with 3 rows up in Hamtramck roughly labeled an "EV Suburban" but I think they have cancelled that.

The low sales volumes are why they had to pause production for a full month this year (2025) at "Factory Zero" and sell off the ultium battery JV to the Koreans. I've read that they internally cancelled plans for the Suburban EV but I can't find that right now. It seems like it would be another $95K+ asp niche vehicle, imho. Escalade IQ may be a real product shortly, but dealers can't even submit orders until March 27th, and they aren't building any really until May 5th.

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Yup. They can barely move Hummer Trucks and SUVs after the 10 athletes and 14 youtubers bought them. Theres no market for a 100K EV with a 300 mile rated range

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Y'all never drive more than 150 miles at a stretch before refilling the big Yeti and draining the little yeti. Especially if you've got the dog and the kids with you.

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I agree 100% with that, fuel stop with bathroom break, 10 min max.

EV recharge stop with DCFC is 40 min.

I took the lightning to NOLA last year for a work trip. Wasnt bad because I had meetings and calls along the way, but a straight shot would be miserable.

We try to daisy chain our vacation trip stops to Sam's Club and Costco....I drop the rib and kids off at front, drive to gas line, she gets kids to bathroom and then orders lunch, I fill up Maxpedition and park, go in, hit restroom, eat and back on the road. Clean bathrooms, cheap lunch, and fuel.... We can have this down to 35-40 min these days.....