Anyone heard from APT? If he saw this news, we might need to contact the authorities for a welfare check.

Atleast most Toyota sedans, Highlanders, & RAV4s are still a good value.

Just curious why you let the Canyon go.

BBRex said:

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Just curious why you let the Canyon go.

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Simply put, I'm a high performance car guy. I'm 44 and have been since my teens. I could only own a truck if it's my secondary vehicle.

Is the price comparison to a full size really the reason for this?

To be clear, I absolutely think sales would be higher if the delta was greater. But this isn't anything new. I would have bought a Tacoma 7 years ago but it was dang near the same price as an F150.

So is that really changing the Y/Y purchases? I wouldn't think so. I'd think it has to be something else.

htxag09 said:

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Is the price comparison to a full size really the reason for this?

To be clear, I absolutely think sales would be higher if the delta was greater. But this isn't anything new. I would have bought a Tacoma 7 years ago but it was dang near the same price as an F150.

So is that really changing the Y/Y purchases? I wouldn't think so. I'd think it has to be something else.

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I tend to agree, as early as I can remember truck prices, going back to the late '80s to early '90s, this has been the case. A loaded out S-10 or Ranger was within $1500 to $2000 of a slightly less equiped full-size truck. There weren't as many luxury features back in that day, so the value comparison really favored the full size back then. Now it seems similarly equipped that price gap is more like $10k due to inflation and feature creep, but as a percentage of MSRP it is probably pretty similar.

For mid-size or whatever we choose to call these trucks, there has never been enough of a price or fuel economy advantage over full-size trucks, to keep people who want to do truck things with them from stepping up to a full size. It seems like their biggest draw has always been the fact that they fit better in parking spots, garages, etc., and their relative size and height make them better for the typical Home Depot runs as long as we aren't talking about bulk delivery of 4x8 sheets of plywood or 2000 lbs of paving stones. They are great home-owner trucks, but it doesn't take much to justify stepping into a full size so you have room to expand your mission criteria for future what-ifs like what if we buy a boat or camper in a few years, or what if I turn my wood working hobby into a side business...

Just not enough of a difference.

But to the basic question, then why have their sales dropped so much? As a society are we live beyond our means more than we did in the '80s and '90s, so more people say screw it, I can't afford either of these trucks, so I might as well pay more for something I really like and makes me feel cooler than my neighbors? I think that is some of it. It is harder to look cool bro-dozering a ranger than an F250...

And maybe more people are aspiring boat and camper owners now?

I would love to see the marketing data the OEMs are using to make their product decisions with. I think it would be fascinating.

How much of it comes down to testosterone levels?

I've always been a buy once - cry once guy, plan your worst case use scenario, multiply by 1.5, and that is what you should base your purchase on when talking about homes, vehicles, guns, or computers. Maybe I should have my T levels checked

Earth Rider said:

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Almost 2.5 times more frontiers sold in 2024 than tacomas. Nobody wants to pay over 50k for that junk 4 cylinder turbo made in Mexico with that small back seat. Their sales have dropped over 50 percent.

I googled the below for truck sales to date in 2024.

Q1 2024 midsize truck sales:

• Nissan Frontier 19,744 (+ 16.6%)
• Chevrolet Colorado 14,922 (+ 12.6)
• Jeep Gladiator - 12,989 (- 4.0%)
• Toyota Tacoma 8,310 (- 55.5%)
• GMC Canyon 5,484 (+ 9.3%)
• Honda Ridgeline 3,967 (- 22.3%)
• Ford Ranger 1,918 (- 83.3%)

May 14, 2024

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The new Colorado is a good looking truck. To bad black is the only interior option.

They are only close to the same price if you compare apples to oranges. A similarly equipped mid size is going to be about $20k less at least on sticker price.

I also wouldn't put too much stock into the Q1 2024 sales numbers, availability for the Ranger, Tacoma and GM's was very low as they were just ramping up production. Q2 numbers will paint a more accurate picture.

Are the GM mid-size twins still only floor/console shift? That is the only thing interior wise that I don't like. The shifter and console just crowd me too much from a long distance comfort stand point. The interior is already narrower with a lower seating position than a full size. Don't force me to have a full length console and floor shifter eating into my leg/hip room.

this is the point i'm making. buying the bigger truck just to get the bigger one really doesn't make a lot of sense.

i've even used this logic myself in the past buying a truck, but either as an old or living outside the US has probably changed how i view it now

It's a valid point. The manufacturers are competing with themselves at the current price point.

I like the midsize and one of my sons owns an older one...but it just doesn't make sense right now for the new ones

Earth Rider said:

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evan_aggie said:

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OP, Tacoma is going through a model/gen refresh and new models ramp up with deliveries. People hold out on existing models which is why they have to be discounted to move off the lot.

I'm not sure this is the best time to draw a conclusion about Tacoma falling off a cliff. Check back in a year and see how the numbers look.

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It may be a bit early, you could be right. I'd be surprised though if the Frontier doesn't supplant the Tacoma as the best selling midsize. I'll check back in six months.

If it holds I feel Toyota has done it to themselves. Raising prices by 8-10k and forcing everyone to accept a 4 cylinder turbo.

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To be fair, Toyota is trying to comply with stupid CAFE standards and sees what losers the EVs are. They've done the smart thing regulation/technology-wise, but it's not what the consumer wants.

88Warrior said:

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If the ass end of the Ranger wasn't 5 foot higher than the front end it would look a lot better…Come on Ford level that thing out!

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I never understood that. It was the first thing I noticed and found odd.

The Blue Goose said:

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I would really prefer a midsize truck as a driver, but the back seat is not feasible for a family.
The Ridgeline gets closest with 36.7 inches.
Tacoma is 33.7 inches in the back seat.

A crew cab f150 is 43.6

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My kid fits in my Tacoma fine, but i completely agree traveling with adults in the back is a disaster.

When I get into my parents f150 it's like a limousine in the backseat. Amazing.

Roger350 said:

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Are the GM mid-size twins still only floor/console shift? That is the only thing interior wise that I don't like. The shifter and console just crowd me too much from a long distance comfort stand point. The interior is already narrower with a lower seating position than a full size. Don't force me to have a full length console and floor shifter eating into my leg/hip room.

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I think all of the mid-sizes are console only now.

Definitely could see that with little ones. Mine are getting to teenage years and it would be too tight for them to be comfortable at all.

Too much money to spend to not be able to use it as a legit daily driver family vehicle. As an extra vehicle, sure - get a single cab or extended with a longer bed and have fun. Once my kids are grown and out of the house it is an option again I suppose.

Tacoma sales are down 24 percent quarter 2 2024 relative to quarter 2 2023. I think that is probably what they can expect for q3 and q4.

It looks like they will retain their title as the midsize truck sales leader. Personally, I think people are still buying Toyota off their past reputation of reliability.

But they are still way down. I think it is just a matter of time before they drop to 2nd or 3rd..

LHM the 2024 just came out!!!

It is hard to sale a vehicle when they are sitting at the Gulf States Toyota distribution center instead of a dealer lot.

I felt like the Canyon and Colorado were showing up more and more. I think the other factors that will continue to favor full size are rebates and interest rates. Those are usually better and more available on full size 1500 models.

kyledr04 said:

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I felt like the Canyon and Colorado were showing up more and more. I think the other factors that will continue to favor full size are rebates and interest rates. Those are usually better and more available on full size 1500 models.

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in my last response: This local dealership had a lot more Canyons than Colorados and by a large margin. I should have also mentioned that most of the Silverado pickups were high 40s and well into the 50s. For the Canyon is mostly low 40s. The Canyon price doesnt get carried away as quickly as a half ton does. GM seems to have placed the Canyon as their golden child for midsize trucks. There are a lot more silverados in the 50k range than there is in the 40k

It basically boils down to, half ton, low to mid 50s, pick your color
Canyon, low to mid 40s pick your color.

Friend of mine just paid 70K for a high end Tundra

Redstone said:

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Friend of mine just paid 70K for a high end Tundra

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I know that is the going rate, but that seems crazy high for a half ton truck. I hope he was able to pay cash for it.

Redstone said:

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Friend of mine just paid 70K for a high end Tundra

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So does this mean there's a $68,500 Tacoma out there?

Earth Rider said:

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Redstone said:

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Friend of mine just paid 70K for a high end Tundra

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I know that is the going rate, but that seems crazy high for a half ton truck. I hope he was able to pay cash for it.

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If you think that is crazy check out the at4 and denali's that are north of 80k.

JP76 said:

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Earth Rider said:

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Redstone said:

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Friend of mine just paid 70K for a high end Tundra

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I know that is the going rate, but that seems crazy high for a half ton truck. I hope he was able to pay cash for it.

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If you think that is crazy check out the at4 and denali's that are north of 80k.

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"High Country" takes on a whole new meaning