Ram steps into the EV game in a huge way

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AggieKatie2
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6:59a, 11/7/23
AG
The new Ramcharger

"Tim Kuniskis, the head of Stellantis' Ram truck brand, insisted during a press conference that the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is not a plug-in hybrid. The main distinction, he said, is that the Ramcharger's 3.6 liter 6-cylinder engine is not connected, in any way, to the truck's wheels. It is only connected to a generator that can charge the batteries and, in some situations, send power to the electric motors, which then drive the wheels….

With a fully charged battery pack and a full tank of gas, the Ramcharger should be to drive a total of about 690 miles before needing recharge or refill, according to Stellantis. In terms of total range, that's similar to much smaller, lighter non-plug-in hybrid vehicles like the Hyundai Sonata and Toyota Camry."

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sts7049
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7:48a, 11/7/23
AG
so basically, an edison motors design
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Dill-Ag13
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In reply to AggieKatie2 • 8:41a, 11/7/23
AG
It's an EV with a range extender.
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'03ag
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8:43a, 11/7/23
This is the way. 150 miles pure EV more than enough for a huge number of buyers. When towing that's probably 75-90 miles which is pretty good for city dwellers that tow occasionally. With the gas engine kicking in I bet you can tow 300 miles minimum. You'll be able to do a lot of "truck stuff" with this one. This style of hybrid fits a lot of use cases. Would like too more of them in the regular car/suv market.

92kwh battery [edit - actually ~ 70kWh]
available 7.2kw inverter
27(?) gallon gas tank
will tow 14,000lbs
Pentastar V6 is your generator which is a pretty solid engine.


Will probably have a youtube chat about this one. It'll be huge with campers and overlanders. Payload will be the key question for some people

edit: I see now payload is already out. 2,650lbs. with all wheel drive and air suspension standard.
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htxag09
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In reply to AggieKatie2 • 8:44a, 11/7/23
AG
AggieKatie2 said:
"Tim Kuniskis, the head of Stellantis' Ram truck brand, insisted during a press conference that the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is not a plug-in hybrid.

With a fully charged battery pack and a full tank of gas
So a hybrid?
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agnerd
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9:30a, 11/7/23
AG
So it's a gas-electric like a locomotive. Should be interesting to see how reliable it is and how the engine does towing a load up a long incline that will drain the batteries. Could be good for just about everything except towing a travel trailer over a pass in Colorado.
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'03ag
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In reply to agnerd • 10:00a, 11/7/23
agnerd said:
So it's a gas-electric like a locomotive. Should be interesting to see how reliable it is and how the engine does towing a load up a long incline that will drain the batteries. Could be good for just about everything except towing a travel trailer over a pass in Colorado.
This seems like a pretty easy load management problem to solve. I'm betting you'll have a few different modes to pick from as far as how/when the engine comes on to charge. These are just guesses but I think you'd see a minimum of 3 modes.

1 - pure EV, don't use engine at all unless it's about to die.
2 - Let the generator kick in under a certain range number, hopefully user defined.
3 - Keep the battery topped up to near 100% at all times.

It's a large battery. Even under load if you're 100% topped up you're going to be able to tow up that mountain a long time. With over 600hp on tap, the right mode, and hopefully a healthy amount of braking regen capability for the trip down ... could be a really good use case.
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Dr. Doctor
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11:13a, 11/7/23
AG
This is what I thought should be done a long time ago. Buddy and I talked about this while drinking in 2005/2006.

Diesel set to 2 speeds and electric motor for moving. Low speed is recharging battery if needed and high speed when actually traveling. Battery can recharge with you not in car, assuming you are in an open space.

Add in plug in and you can make the vehicle go really long distances.

But glad to see someone is finally doing it.
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cavscout96
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11:26a, 11/7/23
AG
If it will tow horses and cattle and hold up, this could be a game changer. I'm interested to know from any EV or hybrid folks how well the "bells and whistles" hold up.

I've replaced two transmissions on two separate trucks in the last 3 years and eliminating the TQ, etc would be fantastic. I actually toyed around with converting the diesel to a manual trans, but needed it back to work on a more reasonable timeline.

260k and 330k so, there is that..., but it's still a pretty good hit to the wallet.
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PeekingDuck
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11:56a, 11/7/23
AG
Have they considered just getting rid of the batteries and generator?
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PMD03
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12:06p, 11/7/23
AG
Seems like a great idea and I really hope that it pans out.

However, and I hate that my thoughts on this are now always negative

  • What is the price going to be (assuming only on high trims)?
  • What is going to be availability?
  • What are the dealer markups going to be?

The past few years have made it difficult to get excited about automotive news, especially regarding trucks. I used to consider new model reveals to be the best time of the year.
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vansprinkle
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In reply to PeekingDuck • 12:26p, 11/7/23
AG
PeekingDuck said:
Have they considered just getting rid of the batteries and generator?

Then you'd be left with a V6 engine trying to power electric motors. Don't think you'd make it too far.
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GarlandAg2012
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In reply to htxag09 • 12:31p, 11/7/23
AG
htxag09 said:
AggieKatie2 said:
"Tim Kuniskis, the head of Stellantis' Ram truck brand, insisted during a press conference that the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is not a plug-in hybrid.

With a fully charged battery pack and a full tank of gas
So a hybrid?


Hybrids typically use a planetary gear set that allows the combustion engine to direct power to the wheels. There's no mechanical connection between the engine and wheels in this setup.

the_batman26: I guess yall need this, its something to take pride in. At least the Feds trusted us with the Space Center; and I seem to recall the Feds not having the best time in Dallas.
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AgGrad99
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12:36p, 11/7/23
AG
Hybrid is the way. I like the idea.

The only concern is going to be the cost. I cant imagine this is very affordable for a while.

If they can make it affordable, it will sell like crazy.
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Kyle Field Shade Chaser
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12:44p, 11/7/23
AG
I can tell you my family can't keep going on forever buying $70K vehicles. Either market needs to correct, pay raises need to match inflation, or Trucks will soon be permanently in the luxury vehicle market.

I can go get a Lexus GX or TX "luxury vehicle" for $10-15K less than a XLT FX4 truck nowadays.
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Milwaukees Best Light
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1:19p, 11/7/23
AG
Can you plug this truck in at home, or is it generator only? Only thing I saw was that 'it wasn't a plug in hybrid'. Is the genny gasoline or diesel?
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cavscout96
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In reply to Kyle Field Shade Chaser • 1:27p, 11/7/23
AG
Kyle Field Shade Chaser said:
I can tell you my family can't keep going on forever buying $70K vehicles. Either market needs to correct, pay raises need to match inflation, or Trucks will soon be permanently in the luxury vehicle market.

I can go get a Lexus GX or TX "luxury vehicle" for $10-15K less than a XLT FX4 truck nowadays.
preach. I've been exclusively used trucks for well over a decade. New truck prices are just stupid.

If this thing will do the work, not brand break, and have longevity, I MIGHT change my mind.



edit---- autocorrect
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cavscout96
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In reply to Milwaukees Best Light • 1:31p, 11/7/23
AG
Milwaukees Best Light said:
Can you plug this truck in at home, or is it generator only? Only thing I saw was that 'it wasn't a plug in hybrid'. Is the genny gasoline or diesel?
plug in at home or at charging station

AND

gas powered generator
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MaxPower
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In reply to GarlandAg2012 • 1:40p, 11/7/23
GarlandAg2012 said:
htxag09 said:
AggieKatie2 said:
"Tim Kuniskis, the head of Stellantis' Ram truck brand, insisted during a press conference that the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is not a plug-in hybrid.

With a fully charged battery pack and a full tank of gas
So a hybrid?


Hybrids typically use a planetary gear set that allows the combustion engine to direct power to the wheels. There's no mechanical connection between the engine and wheels in this setup.

Said another way, it's an electric vehicle with a built in gas generator
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'03ag
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In reply to MaxPower • 1:50p, 11/7/23
MaxPower said:
GarlandAg2012 said:
htxag09 said:
AggieKatie2 said:
"Tim Kuniskis, the head of Stellantis' Ram truck brand, insisted during a press conference that the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is not a plug-in hybrid.

With a fully charged battery pack and a full tank of gas
So a hybrid?


Hybrids typically use a planetary gear set that allows the combustion engine to direct power to the wheels. There's no mechanical connection between the engine and wheels in this setup.

Said another way, it's an electric vehicle with a built in gas generator
yeah.

And there have been some others.

Chevy Volt
BMW i3 had a range extender option
Mazda has recently added a rotary based range extender to the MX30, but I don't know if we get that in the US anymore.
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NoahAg
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3:35p, 11/7/23
They should add solar panels, a sail, and a Mr. Fusion.
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CEPhD
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6:52p, 11/7/23
AG
Basically no transmission needed, so that's some savings.
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Buck Turgidson
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8:03p, 11/7/23
This is all new technology to me, but doesn't it seem excessive that they have a V6 gas engine JUST to charge a battery? If the gas engine is not connected to the wheels, why can't it be quite a bit smaller?

Also, no way in hell would I buy this thing in the first couple years of production. I think there's a good chance this could start out with all kinds of recalls.
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'03ag
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In reply to Buck Turgidson • 8:16p, 11/7/23
It has over 600 horsepower of electric motor.

They need enough power to charge at a reasonable rate while still delivering on their horsepower/towing/range promises. I'm guessing a 150hp 4 banger won't do that.
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1agswitchin4lanes
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9:18p, 11/7/23
AG
so what happens when the oil cooler fails and sucks all the engine oil into the cooling system?
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to 1agswitchin4lanes • 12:19a, 11/8/23
AG
1agswitchin4lanes said:
so what happens when the oil cooler fails and sucks all the engine oil into the cooling system?
It is a Dodge, so I assume massive fire.
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:59a, 11/8/23
AG
Dodge + EV =


Like the concept though
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Jack Boyett
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In reply to Buck Turgidson • 6:23a, 11/8/23
AG
Buck Turgidson said:
This is all new technology to me, but doesn't it seem excessive that they have a V6 gas engine JUST to charge a battery? If the gas engine is not connected to the wheels, why can't it be quite a bit smaller?

Also, no way in hell would I buy this thing in the first couple years of production. I think there's a good chance this could start out with all kinds of recalls.
How many amps is the battery charger? Why do you assume it's excessive?
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The Kraken
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6:44a, 11/8/23
AG
Interesting. Apparently the Ramcharger may be slightly cheaper than the REV since it will have a smaller battery.

Quote:
While Stellantis hasn't announced pricing for either electric truck, Kuniskis hinted that prices for the Ramcharger could be lower than for the Ram REV since the range-extended truck has a smaller battery pack. Batteries are the most expensive part of an electric vehicle.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html

If that's the case then I have to think this would easily outsell the REV. Only downside would be no frunk and engine maintenance costs.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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bam02
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8:14a, 11/8/23
AG
I like the concept! Hope they are successful with it.
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Complete Idiot
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8:29a, 11/8/23
Ram is owned by Stellantis, like Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler - correct? If so they have quite a bit of experience with hybrid vehicles if not this exact on board charger type hybrid.

Apparently many refer to this as a Series Hybrid - the on board charger only charges the battery, the electric motor is all that drives the wheels - vs a Parallel Hybrid - the ICE engine is in parallel to the Electric Motors and either can drive the wheels.

It's nice that all trims will offer this drivetrain, the biggest initial question is pricing and then after that performance and reliability.
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GarlandAg2012
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In reply to Jack Boyett • 9:55a, 11/8/23
AG
Jack Boyett said:
Buck Turgidson said:
This is all new technology to me, but doesn't it seem excessive that they have a V6 gas engine JUST to charge a battery? If the gas engine is not connected to the wheels, why can't it be quite a bit smaller?

Also, no way in hell would I buy this thing in the first couple years of production. I think there's a good chance this could start out with all kinds of recalls.
How many amps is the battery charger? Why do you assume it's excessive?
A Class 2 charger is about 19 kW or 25 HP.

Class 3 chargers range from 50-400 kW which would be 67-536 mechanical HP, so the required engine HP would be more than that due to losses in the generator. The 3.6L Pentastar V6 puts out around 300 HP so that would be roughly equivalent to a 200-225 kW fast charger.

Edit: the 300 HP figure is max HP which I imagine they will avoid because it is much less efficient for the engine. I bet the charging will be more like 100-150 kW and maybe there will be a fast charge mode/high output mode where the engine is revved higher. I don't know a lot about engine tuning but I'm sure it will be specifically tuned for this application.
the_batman26: I guess yall need this, its something to take pride in. At least the Feds trusted us with the Space Center; and I seem to recall the Feds not having the best time in Dallas.
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tk for tu juan
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In reply to GarlandAg2012 • 10:02a, 11/8/23
Specs say 130 kW generator
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GarlandAg2012
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 10:07a, 11/8/23
AG
tk for tu juan said:
Specs say 130 kW generator
Well there ya have it. 130 kW is about 175 HP, before any efficiency losses (generators are pretty good but nothing is 100 %). Running a small 4 banger in a way to generate that much power is probably less efficient and harder on the engine than a larger displacement unit like the V6.

Only major downside to me is it means there's probably no Frunk and payload is about 400 lb less than my 2015 F150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost.
the_batman26: I guess yall need this, its something to take pride in. At least the Feds trusted us with the Space Center; and I seem to recall the Feds not having the best time in Dallas.
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'03ag
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In reply to GarlandAg2012 • 10:09a, 11/8/23
GarlandAg2012 said:
Jack Boyett said:
Buck Turgidson said:
This is all new technology to me, but doesn't it seem excessive that they have a V6 gas engine JUST to charge a battery? If the gas engine is not connected to the wheels, why can't it be quite a bit smaller?

Also, no way in hell would I buy this thing in the first couple years of production. I think there's a good chance this could start out with all kinds of recalls.
How many amps is the battery charger? Why do you assume it's excessive?
A Class 2 charger is about 19 kW or 25 HP.

Class 3 chargers range from 50-400 kW which would be 67-536 mechanical HP, so the required engine HP would be more than that due to losses in the generator. The 3.6L Pentastar V6 puts out around 300 HP so that would be roughly equivalent to a 200-225 kW fast charger.

Edit: the 300 HP figure is max HP which I imagine they will avoid because it is much less efficient for the engine. I bet the charging will be more like 150 kW and maybe there will be a fast charge mode/high output mode where the engine is revved higher. I don't know a lot about engine tuning but I'm sure it will be specifically tuned for this application.

From Motortrend

Quote:
Yet that not-terribly-impressive figure is aided by a game-changing add-on: A 3.6-liter Pentastar V-6 acting as a 130-kW generator, capable of 190 kW power delivery peaks. With a 27-gallon fuel tank topped off with gasoline, the range-extender-equipped Ramcharger has an estimated maximum range of 690 miles between its battery and gas-supported source of energy

So your bet looks spot on.

Quick math says once you've exhausted the 150 miles of EV range, the 27 gallon fuel tank can take you an additional 540 miles. Right at 20 mpg in pure generator/hybrid mode under the most optimal conditions.
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