We are soon going to be in the market for an upgrade for my wife. We have 3 kids. We will be getting a used vehicle. Probably 50-60k miles or less. This question is mainly concerning the powertrain differences between the two vehicles. Features are more something I'm going to let my wife decide.

My thoughts currently:

The 5.3 L V8 in the GM vehicles is probably one of the most longstanding engines out there. Are they still as dependable as always?

The Ford seems to give you a little more bang for you buck in terms of features for your money, but I'm not sure about a V6 moving around the Expedition Max. It seems like it should have a V8


Any personal experience or thoughts?
TIA

Have you looked at a Toyota Sienna or Kia Carnival?

I think my wife hates minivans more than I do

If you get a suburban or yukon XL and hate it you can always get out of it w/o losing a ton of money , that is not true with the Expedition. Plus it seems Fords have more issues. If you get the Ford get an extended warranty for atleast 100k

I bought a 2018 expedition max with 55k on it 3 years ago and it's been a great truck. Trouble free for the most part.

I hated the GM interior fit and finish and the seats.

mosdefn14 said:

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Have you looked at a Toyota Sienna or Kia Carnival?

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tsuag10 said:

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but I'm not sure about a V6 moving around the Expedition Max. It seems like it should have a V8

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It's not just a V6, it's a V6 with two turbos. Because of that it makes 20 more horsepower and 87 more ft-lbs of torque. Turns out there is a replacement for displacement, and it's called boost. Boost is a beautiful thing.

Now that I got my snarky yet educational post out of the way I will try to answer more helpfully.

Knowing people that have had both, the answer is both are a crapshoot. The 5.3 is guaranteed to have a failure of some sort, caused by an AFM lifter issue. 9/10 times, this requires a full engine rebuild or replacement. Usually it happens around 100k miles or more, but I personally know someone that this happened to at 35k miles. Luckily it was still under warranty and it didn't cost him anything, but it required a whole new engine.

Chevy is also notorious for having transmissions that crap out a little after 100k miles.


The ecoboost is far from perfect as well. They have a well known cam phaser failure issue that is pretty much guaranteed to happen at some point. Literally every person I know in my close circle of friends and family with a 3.5 ecoboost has had the cam phasers replaced at least once, and most are on their second time. My truck has had the cam phasers replaced 4 times now. That being said, when these fail, it's not a catastrophic failure and it won't leave you stranded on the side of the road. Also, the out of pocket cost to replace them is only about $3k-$4k, so less than half the cost of a whole new engine or transmission. Also, they supposedly fixed the part sometime in 2022, so if you you get a 2022 or newer, there's a chance your build could have the updated design and you won't have this issue, but no guarantee.

If you are dead set on one these two vehicles, it's really a coin flip in my opinion.

Definitely get an AFM disabler if you go the GM route.

Buddy just switched from the suburban to the expedition max because of the suburban transmission issues and the replacement cost of that alone.

Everything has its issues

Both are good and will have problems. Ford has more features in the higher trims that you will appreciate. Touch the handle to lock and unlock. Keypad that doesn't require a subscription to unlock your truck if you lock the keys inside. More torque. The list goes on.

Chevy looks way better this cycle. So it's really preference.

I'd buy new. The cost difference is small compared to years past and you won't be buying a hurried 2020 or 2021 model year. That's my only advice.

Wife has a 5.3 Tahoe and it's been great at 105k miles. I had two 3.5 ecoboost. One had the cam phaser issue and the other was fine. It has serious power so I would t worry about that.

If reliability is a concern I'd buy new, maintain it well and hope for the best.

We might be selling our 2020 expy max in the fall. Currently just short of 30k miles. Wife works from home so don't expect a ton of miles until then.

2wd KingRanch loaded. Extended warranty etc that's transferable. If it makes sense to sell direct over trading it in we can talk.

And it's been a great vehicle. The boost blows away the 5.3 in the burb or Tahoe. We had two tahoes before and hated them. Kids are starting to get out of car seats so she wants to downsize to an atlas

Had a 2010 Suburban LT and in 2021 bought a new Expedition Max Limited. I've liked both. The Chevy with the 3rd row seats up has a ton of cargo space, the Expedition not as much but more than say a Sequoia. Expedition gets around city better.

We had a suburban 2022 in Colorado as a rental this past year (Premier 4x4). Enjoyed it, but still prefer the Expy. The only thing that would make the Expy better is matching cargo space as the Burb. Agree that I think you get more bang for your buck.

Get the 3.0 Duramax in the GM product. Profit. My dad gets 28mpg in his Denali XL.

Depending on the paint color, I may be very interested in this.

It's white

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Get the 3.0 Duramax in the GM product. Profit. My dad gets 28mpg in his Denali XL.

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I am looking for one of these for my wife. I think I would have better luck finding a unicorn.

Let's for sure stay connected about this. Username at gmail dot com. Thanks!

Yep will do, trying to figure out when the 2024 atlas's will be released this fall.

Dogdoc said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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Get the 3.0 Duramax in the GM product. Profit. My dad gets 28mpg in his Denali XL.

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I am looking for one of these for my wife. I think I would have better luck finding a unicorn.

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He had a nationwide search and flew to the northeast to buy and drive home.

Interested.

Emailed you

Removed phone number

Wife has a 2019 Expedition and I regularly drive it (thankfully cam phasers were replaced under warranty and we've had no further issues). I also rented a Yukon (2021, 2022) several times over the past few months. The expedition drives MUCH better than the boat of a Yukon did. Expedition has much less body roll and just a more solid feel on the road overall and going over bumps. Drive them both, because I couldn't begin to imagine daily driving that Yukon I had.

So not the Suburban XL or the Max, but the experiences won't be much different. Cam phasers (fixed in recent models) vs. AFM lifter issues (get a disabler) are both known issues.

drummer0415 said:

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The ecoboost is far from perfect as well. My truck has had the cam phasers replaced 4 times now. That being said, when these fail, it's not a catastrophic failure and it won't leave you stranded on the side of the road. Also, the out of pocket cost to replace them is only about $3k-$4k, so less than half the cost of a whole new engine or transmission.

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Holy crap

Yeah. Not bad. Just $12-$16K in repairs.

That's about what an oil change costs on my Maybach.

/Texags trillionaire

I would like to bring about to this discussion, that the naturally aspirated V-8, with no "alternating cylinder", start-stop technology, and all that BS brought directly to your doorstep by the Obama Admn, would have been lasting well over 200-250K at this point, regular maintenance required, and when the motor needed this kind of work, it would have been a fraction of the cost to repair/replace.

The environment is not the issue. It is the politicians lining their pockets with YOUR money that drives this short motor duration BS, and their desire to shorten your ability to move about efficiently.




Apologies: Back on topic. If you are going on motor, stay with the naturally aspirated 5.3, screw the turbos. The 5.3 will last longer, but the interior of the GM will need to be carted off by hand as it falls apart at 100K (not me, according to friends that some reason will line up to buy another at 100K).

Thats why we have Toyotas as a family, but they are sticking their heads in the head gate now, as well.

F.

Old Sarge said:

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I would like to bring about to this discussion, that the naturally aspirated V-8, with no "alternating cylinder", start-stop technology, and all that BS brought directly to your doorstep by the Obama Admn, would have been lasting well over 200-250K at this point, regular maintenance required, and when the motor needed this kind of work, it would have been a fraction of the cost to repair/replace.

The environment is not the issue. It is the politicians lining their pockets with YOUR money that drives this short motor duration BS, and their desire to shorten your ability to move about efficiently.




Apologies: Back on topic. If you are going on motor, stay with the naturally aspirated 5.3, screw the turbos. The 5.3 will last longer, but the interior of the GM will need to be carted off by hand as it falls apart at 100K (not me, according to friends that some reason will line up to buy another at 100K).

Thats why we have Toyotas as a family, but they are sticking their heads in the head gate now, as well.

F.

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Eh, have had a 5.4 Expy go 300K+ and we are at 165K on the eco boost Expy.

I'd bypass both the Chevy and Ford and look for a late model Toyota Sequoia with the V8. Power is a little better than the Tahoe, a little less than the Ford, but reliability is WAY better than both, especially the GM. The only problem with 2019-2022 Sequoias is that there weren't many sold and finding one might be difficult. I wouldn't be shocked, however, if a dealer had a new one still on the lot.

I don't like the looks of the Nissan Armada. Its also a little smaller than the other ones. However, it is pretty reliable. I'm not sure on the power numbers. In spite of owning 2 of them, I'm not a big Nissan fan.

In reading this thread there's just one thing I noticed a total lack of regard for… affordable options

The costs. Who the heck is able to go out there and buy a $70K+ Tahoe/expy like it's nothing? If you financed it for $40K after a $30K down payment, you're still looking at over $800/month in car payment assuming a 5YR note.

Maybe that works for you, but I can't grasp that amount and be ok with living in other areas of my life. Kids are expensive.

Wife has a 2021 Explorer and we are going to be looking for an upgrade if/when we have our second kiddo and I'm just not looking forward to it. Makes me sick thinking I'm gonna have to go the minivan route to haul the dogs, kids, us and all our crap.

Or a new 23 Lexus 460 gx. Sadly, this is the last year they are being produced with the reliable 4.6 liter v8.
The 24 model will come with a twin turbo engine. More money, more problems.

In a few years, people will look back and wish they had gotten a last year of production normal v8 engine. Toyota/ Lexus was the last holdout for suvs, and after 23, they are gone also. Supposedly the last ones are in the shipping pipeline now.

I think buyers will have more negotiating power come end of the year. Supply is getting too high on new vehicles because to your point they are just too damn expensive for the middle class American. Now, I don't think you buy a $40K F-150 or Expy ever again, but I do think we'll start to see buyers getting $5-7K off MSRP again in 2024. Lots are fill up with new vehicles again. My local Ford probably has 70 F-150's on the lot, many sitting for a long while now.