CP90's Catastrophic Cummins

39,388 Views | 212 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by MTTANK
Centerpole90
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I am presuming you mean that the head is in no way, shape, or fashion coming off the block, in the truck, with head studs? I figured that was just the cost of going fast…

I do appreciate the advice. Now I just have to make it all fit the budget.
Streetfighter 02
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Language on this one as well.
Silvy
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Centerpole90 said:

[The bearing on #3 is definitely sloppier than silvy's ponrhub search history.
"Old man + peanut butter + chickens = ????"
Silvy
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Highly recommend that all watch the Refined series
GentrysMillTX10
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I think you are referring to the valve cover clearance issue I mentioned with studs. I don't know if ARP has better instructions now or not - but back when we did studs on my 05, everything looked great and bolts back together but the valve cover isn't seated all the way and it will spray oil out of the back of the head. This is due to at least one maybe 2 ARP studs being too long by millimeters. We fixed the issue with a dremel to the inside of the valve cover - after we cleaned up an oily mess. Just be warned of the issue and read instructions closely!
Centerpole90
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Thank you for that info, I didn't know that and it's great to know. I just thought you meant the heads not coming off in the truck…
sts7049
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Streetfighter 02 said:



Language on this one as well.
forgot about those, they are a classic
LRHF
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Great project and fun thread. I've got nothing to offer just wanted to see what old CP was up to!
Centerpole90
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LRHF said:

Great project and fun thread. I've got nothing to offer just wanted to see what old CP was up to!
Well he's not fishing, because it's too windy, too busy, and too much time in the shop. But I am building a tow rig to get me back to Durango this fall!

Offer stands if you make it down - you're always welcome on the bow.
Centerpole90
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*Program Update

This afternoon I had time to pull the clutch. Suprised to find the truck actually had a Valair dual disc clutch. The clutch disc had some wear and there are is a small hotspots or two in the pressure plate and intermediate flywheel. I'll probably call Valair next week and inquire about disc kits, but not going to surprise me if I end up investing in new one.

I removed the pan and as expected #3 rod bearing is gone, all the way gone, but the rest of the rod bearings are good and the mains are all good (even though they do show wear). Bearings were all standard size. I don't think the block will have any trouble being a good core - I don't know about the crank though. Remember the bores were 0.020" over.

Not that it makes a lot of difference since I'm likely going with a long block - but I get the impression this engine was 1. romped on pretty hard judging by the clutch and 2. was kind of wham-bam when assembled. I say that because I found a couple places (oil pickup is a good example) where gobbed on RTV was the sole sealer and no actual gasket was used. I know, I know - it works; but - gaskets are are there for a reason and having gobs of RTV hanging off places like that are just opportunities for that to sluff off and makes its way into some oil passage. It's just a thing with me.

I'll have to talk to prospective source for a long block to see what I should, or will be required, to replace and what I can re-use. I already sat down and ran some numbers - sticker shock is real.
GentrysMillTX10
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I bet Valair takes good care of you!
Centerpole90
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Thoughts on Hamilton 178/208 cam? It's offered as an upgrade from the engine builder, with some other stuff that increases the price about 2x the cam price. I did some online research and don't know if that grind really moves the needle that far.

I'm thinking that $ spent on a custom tune and Edge gauge package to monitor it all might be more bang for the buck?

Injectors and CP3 pump went to injector shop for evaluation. I called Valair and asked about discs and grinding suggestions - they quoted me a price for a re-new service and I'm packaging up the flywheel to go back to Mineral Wells. All they wanted was the flywheel - they'll grind that and everything else will come back new.
will.mcg
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Most likely you have a local machine shop that can grind your flywheel just fine.
GentrysMillTX10
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Unless there's a need for a fresh cam/springs/pushrods/tappets, no, the upgrade of these items isn't really worth the money for your application. But there might be a need considering how the engine was treated before you bought it.

Sounds like Valair is taking care of you.
Centerpole90
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will.mcg said:

Most likely you have a local machine shop that can grind your flywheel just fine.
will, I'm sorry I missed this post earlier. I didn't mean to ignore the comment.

I set out to do exactly what you suggested and when I was pricing clutch discs from Valair I inquired about thickness tolerances on the floater plate. This one has lots of hot spots and since there are 3 surfaces to grind I didn't know what the total takeoff would end up being. That's when he suggest I send them the flywheel and get a new spec clutch for a little more than what the clutch discs alone were going to cost. So I opted for that route.
LRHF
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Centerpole90 said:

LRHF said:

Great project and fun thread. I've got nothing to offer just wanted to see what old CP was up to!
Well he's not fishing, because it's too windy, too busy, and too much time in the shop. But I am building a tow rig to get me back to Durango this fall!

Offer stands if you make it down - you're always welcome on the bow.


This thread is super cool! I will definitely take you up on the offer one day!
will.mcg
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No worries. Yes that sounds a bit more complicated than a simple resurface.
Centerpole90
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Not a lot of progress to report but I thought I'd update anyway.

First. I heard from the injector shop a while back, and the injectors were in varying stages of high return and overfueling, so, pffft. On GentryMill's suggestion I ordered some new ones with wee bit bigger holes than stock. If it's going to hurt, may as well make it worth it, right? The CP3 pump had rust in it too, so there goes more $$$. I'm starting to observe a pattern. On a positive note, I got the engine core fully stripped and ready to swap out - so I took it out of the engine stand and set it on pallet...



I've been working on the engine harness a little at a time. I got some OEM style fabric electrical tape and I'm re-wrapping all the branches, cleaning all the connectors, and inspecting for any problems. before and after:



I pulled the fuel tank out so I could clean it (now that I know the fuel system is no bueno) and while I was under there I got to inspect the bed wiring a little better. I don't know if I've mentioned it already but if I gave Mrs. CP and handful of solderless connectors and a pair of wire pliers she could have done a better job. That is not a compliment on her wiring skills.

This led to a survey while I was lying on the creeper: Wiring: Ass. Bed mounting attachments: Ass.
Two is enough, time to rectify this stuff.



The plan is to scuff the undercarriage up and paint it all black so it looks nice. I started threatening out loud to paint the truck red, but luckily I got talked out of that nonsense pretty quick.



Would you look at this bird's nest? I have been studying the factory manual but it ins't really helping me decipher the 12 wires that come out of the factory harness. I'll probably have to wait until I get the batteries hooked back up and do it the old school way. I will build a harness for the bed and trailer plugs, then connect all that to the truck with a singular modular plug.



Good time to ask - does anyone have a favorite (and modest sized) brake controller they like these days? I know they're built into most trucks now, hence I haven't bought one in a long time, but I'll need to replace the one in this ride. I don't want the big ol' honking knee banger hanging under the steering wheel. Surely there are some better options in 2023.

This evening I set the frame level and started doing some studying of how I want to bolt the bed to the frame.



I didn't point it out earlier but if you look real close in this picture I think you can see the bed is not perfectly aligned with the body molding on the door. The bed ran downhill just a tad - and it bugged the sh*t out of me. That alone makes the extra work worth it. I hope.

EskimoJoe
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Install one of those electric over hydraulic dump bed kits while you have the bed off. It takes a lot of jack work out of hooking up to goosenecks.
GrimesCoAg95
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I may have a prodigy p3 that came out of my old truck if you decide to use that style. I will check if you are interested.
GrimesCoAg95
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You said 12 wires, but I do not know the real total. Could you use a trailer junction box for the bed? I am not sure if it would help or where you would mount it, but I am about to rewire a trailer so it was top of mind.

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE-Weatherproof-Connection/dp/B07G8S9ZCB
magnumtmp
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One thing I figured out messing with my Norstar bed, is there are individual wires for each side brake light, blinker, backup lamp, and running for each side, then wire for the trailer hook up too…. At least that's what I remember. So that's 4 per side plus 4 for the trailer. Should be a 12 V and a the trailer brake too, and I think I remember several ground wires….

The factory rear lights have a separate bulb for brake and blinker, but the trailer hook ups will 'blink' the brake light filament, hence all the wires. My '04 might be a little different though. I know the shop that put my bed on completely hosed the wiring and I had to fix it all. I actually took advantage of it on my bed and made my outside LEDs blink where the inside LEDs stay as a brake light (two lights on each side in the bed not including backup).

Hope this helps! I struggled finding a good wiring diagram too. I had my son in the truck turning switches all over the place and labeled as I went. I also had to install resistors to fake the current for the BCM so the stupid lamp out warning would STFU. It still dings sometimes…
Centerpole90
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Ya'll answered my question in the affirmative to what I was suspecting - that the truck has the tattletale 'light out' warning of some kind. There are so many similarly marked wires, I suspected that some of them are probably individual (grounds?) that go back to the controller to sense load.

The inventory:
Heavier gauge:
1. Black with green trace
1. Solid Black
Lighter gauge:
1. yellow
1. black
1. brown
1. green
2. white w/ green trace
2. white w/ yellow trace
2. white w/ brown trace

12 total

I haven't laid the rat's nest out to see how they split out. I think the OP left a lot of the bed harness in place so I can tell mostly what went right and what went left - that should help me pair them up. What I did find was where someone tapped into the main harness above the branch and using a test lamp, violated all the wires. I plan to eventually go and tie in above that invitation for trouble.

Yes, Grimes, I will use something like a trailer terminal box, or a 12 pin Deutsch connector..


ETA: that's probably a bad example, I don't know what amperage that is rated for, but there are other factory style 14 pin connectors just for this application.
Centerpole90
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EskimoJoe said:

Install one of those electric over hydraulic dump bed kits while you have the bed off. It takes a lot of jack work out of hooking up to goosenecks.
you have my attention. Go on....
EskimoJoe
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Centerpole90 said:

EskimoJoe said:

Install one of those electric over hydraulic dump bed kits while you have the bed off. It takes a lot of jack work out of hooking up to goosenecks.
you have my attention. Go on....


since i can't get imgur to work.

https://www.piercearrowinc.com/products/dump-kit-flat-bed

or if you just want to go all out...

just throw a dumping flatbed or dumping bale bed on it
https://c5mfg.com/

The C5 bed is made locally, The owner comes in the store and buys combine parts.

MTTANK
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I'm a little late to answer here. For a brake controller check out the Redarc setup. You can hide everything and its just a knob on the dash to control it. That's what I'm planning on putting in my first gen Tundra.
GIG 'EM
Centerpole90
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Update:

I haven't really started putting things together on this truck since last update, but I am making small steps. Mostly, I'm sorting things out and accumulating parts along the way to get ready for assembly. This 'catch up' update will be mostly pictures. Everybody loves pictures.

First, the long block was ready a few weeks ago. I went to Htine and picked it up one afternoon. While I was there I fetched some Ford wheels for a farm truck. I found some on FB marketplace, seemed legit, tires had a little life left in them, and I didn't get robbed. So that was good. I had been told the engine would be black, but I guess the upgraded head studs and stuff deemed it 'performance' and they painted it Cummins Apex Red like the ISX. I ain't mad about it; I'll just lean into it.



You seemed to like the engine stand. So I revisited it. If ya'll recall I said the Harbor Freight worm gear I robbed off the winch was the most jiggy think in my setup. Now that the engine was home I wan't about the balance this new pricey mill on that POS. You can see how it flexed under the weight, plus, I missed the gear engagement height a bit and it was all hangin' on about half a tooth or less at times.



I re-engineered it but I had to use a longer shaft; so that meant starting with a 1/2" bolt and the worm needed to be opened up a bit from the original metric size. This was the most worrisome step because the worm was the one thing I could't make. I played around with the lathe and I couldn't make threads that course. The lathe may do it, but I couldn't figure it out.



I made new bushings for each end of the worm and milled a new shaft for the crank. (which has yet to swing and catch me in the cajones, thankfully)



I used some old cultivator shank for the frame and drilled them for the bushings.



The guys would say 'es bien macizo' and they wold be right. No more flexing.



If you recall in the OP I said this all started because I was poking around FB Marketplace looking for a skirted flatbed for another truck. That truck is a 2001 single cab truck I bought in a surplus auction. If you are from cotton country you will probably suspect this is an old Texas Boll Weevil Eradication Foundation truck, and you would be right. That's a 2001 with 35,000 original miles when I bought it in 2021. It's a 5.9 gutless gasser with an automatic transmission. They used these duallys to pull out stuck trucks and haul their little mist sprayers; so they never got many miles. What they did do was sit outside for 20 years and get exposed to chingos of malathion so the paint was crap and the flatbed was rusted off. I bought it because I originally had designs of doing a cummins swap but learned real quick that I'd be better off with a native diesel truck - so instead I put it on the farm pulling a nurse trailer for the sprayer.

I bought the Catastrophic project and had plans to just keep this Gooseneck be on it. Well, that plan changed, and it happened kind of quick-like. First, I priced a bed for the second-gen a little over a month ago but shied away from buying it because it was a little pricey for that ride. Then it rained and I had a glut of help around the shop; a good opportunity to fix stuff up. I also went to get the license plates for the Ford that I was putting the wheels on and was treated refund check for a mistake they'd made calculating taxes, ALSO, a check for the pickup bed we sold off that truck to put a service body on it. It all added up to over half the price of a new skirted flatbed, so I decided to roll with it and spoke up for new CM skirted bed for the Catastrophic Cummins.

That meant I had to throw the guys into sanding and masking the second-gen after we jerked the rusted out flatbed.



$350 worth of base, clear, reducer, and hardner. A few runs because it's hell throwing clear on white in a poorly lit barn. Never mind a couple overspray spots and the loose bumper; we straightened all that out. I also had to spend a day working on fitment of the bed because the runners weren't for a second-gen, so it took a little customization and time; but at least my original goal of fixing this truck up nicer is done.



While this was going on I put the long block in the engine stand. I am much happier with the way it performs now. It doesn't flex and the motion is very positive with full tooth engagement between the worm and gear. I keep it under a sheet in the machine room in the air conditioning.



Late night Ebay and beer really go well together. A few days later cool stuff shows up at my house. I bought greasy ones with dogeared pages so you know they're legit.



Remember when MrsCP went to Harbor Freight for the winch and y'all thought that was so cool? Now, I have REALLY tested the limits of 29.5 years of marriage. I had a put some cash in her purse when we went on a trip a while back *just in case* some wheels popped up somewhere along our route. They didn't on that trip, however, she was in College Station last week helping CPjr move out of his townhouse so he could start his extended COSC internship when a set of wheels were listed on the right side of Houston. She did tell me that this earned her a gold star because it was a little sketchy... but, got wheels, so I owe her now.



I've put off starting to assemble much because I think I'm kind of nervous. I organize parts, re-organize parts, wipe parts down, and just about everything in between to procrastinate. I guess way down deep inside I'm kind of apprehensive about putting it together; but I'm about out of exercises and excuses. Harvest will start soon, but I can get a lot done before that if I put some effort into it. Today, I painted the oil pan and timing cover. I better get me another 1 or 2 cans of that red. It goes fast to get good coverage. That beoch is going to be R. E. D.



One more thing, since it's Memorial Day; I had thought about sharing this here anyway at some point, but today is quite fitting. CPjr is interning in Dallas and today he went and picked up his Grandmother to drive her to the National Cemetery and visit her son, his late uncle, Matthew Worrell '94. Matthew was MrsCP's only sibling. It made me really proud that he wanted to day that today and he sent this picture.

Here is why it matters, Matthew was killed on 14 May 2006. When I bought this truck and looked in the door post I was immediately struck - it was built in May 2006. The engine valve cover is dated 18 May. To me, everything in that decade is categorized as before or after 14 May 2006. If I knew the exact day this truck was built I could probably tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing or feeling - especially if it was after the 14th, Mother's Day that year. What an unexpected connection. Anyway, today, remember those who made it possible for the rest of us to enjoy these hobbies. Sorry for rambling.

CenterHillAg
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What auction company had the boll weevil trucks? That would be perfect for a project I'm working on.
Centerpole90
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They held their own special auction at a large auto wholesaler auction house in San Antonio. It would be something normally closed to the public, but was open for their surplus auction.

They sold 8 of these '01 duallies that day. Sometime since I've started this project I saw another one of those 8 come up on FB marketplace at a small dealer in San Antonio - but I can't seem to find it this morning. I don't remember what they were asking, but it was a good bit of markup from the auction price.
CenterHillAg
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Alrighty thanks, I'll keep cruising the forest service auctions.
Centerpole90
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It was a wonky deal actually. I saw them lining up a bunch of trucks in front of our local TBWEF office and 4 of the trucks were these duallies. So I turned around asked the guys if they were headed to auction, because you could see them verifying VINs, and they said that yes, they were taking them to Robstown. Well, outside Robstown is Sterling City Auction - so I immediately called a buddy who has access and said 'hey, these trucks are going to sell soon and I want one or two of them'.

They never showed up at the next couple auctions so I called Abilene and the young lady told me they were actually just staging all the RGV and Coastal Bend trucks in Robstown and they hadn't made any hard plans yet for the actual date and location yet. I left my number and she said she'd put me on the contact list for when it was set. Hell, I'll bet it was a year later I get a call from Abilene, but she did exactly what she'd said she would do. I gave her my email and she sent me a list of lots with location and date. I went and was shocked what they were selling for and felt like I was only able to get the one I wanted because it sold out of order and I was paying close attention. I had plans to buy 2 for me and one for a buddy but only bought the one.

I'd imagine all these second gens are gone through their system now.

Do you do any TBWEF work?
CenterHillAg
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I don't, it was pretty well over up here by the time I got started. Sounded miserable anyway, I don't think I missed out on anything special. My loader truck for dry material is on its last leg, '82 F-Super Duty that's put out over 30 million lbs of fertilizer in it's life. The loading gear is all stainless and in great shape, but the truck leaves a pile of rust every time you get a load. One of my friends has designed a hydraulic system that turns the auger, with a big Briggs & Stratton running the pump. I'd like to build up the same, but having the PTO as a last resort would be a good option.

I bet you drove right by the airport I run out of between El Campo and Wharton on the way to Houston, stop by and say hi if you make the trip again.
GentrysMillTX10
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I've been meaning to text you about progress the last couple weekends and get an update. Quit procrastinating already, I'm ready to see and read about how it all goes together
P.H. Dexippus
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Thanks for sharing the additional info. Quite the resume.
Quote:

His awards and decorations include two Bronze Stars, the Meritorious Service Medal, the Air Medal for valor, three Air Medals, the Army Commendation Medal, two Army Achievement Medals, two National Defense Service Medals, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, the Iraq Campaign Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, the Army Service Ribbon and the NATO Medal. He is also authorized to wear the Senior Aviator Badge, the Airborne Badge, the Air Assault Badge and the Combat Action Badge. Worrell was posthumously awarded the Silver Star and the Purple Heart.
Centerpole90
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@CenterHillAg. Thanks for the invite, and don't be shocked if I stop by some time. I know exactly where you are talking about and I've wondered in the past if that's where you work out of. I'd like to see your cub. Sun Valley in San Benito is who I've worked with for almost 30 years.

@ GentrysMill. I am still high-centered if you can believe that on a turbo. Don't laugh at me, it's a classic case of the paralysis by analysis. I think I've come up with a solution though. One that will address the compromise that has me stymied.

@P.H Dexippus We miss him dearly, and are beyond proud of his service and sacrifice. My two nephews are in the Corps at Aggieland. I don't take the credit for that - but because if was one of the things he asked me to encourage in his 'in the event of' letter to our family... I'm proud of that - and relieved I didn't let him down.

Last night and this morning I put in a couple of the injectors, rear main seal, oil pan, transmission bell housing, and I have cleaned a ton of bolts & nuts in the ultrasonic to keep adding parts. The engine I took out someone had mixed up a bunch of the bolts and done a lot of 'will fit' work. So I am pairing them up better for uniformity. It is a shame I'm the last guy who's every going to see that pretty oil pan.



I also left an Easter Egg on the insulator bracket the ECU bolts to. It will be obscured, but hey, having fun, right?


 
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