Have about 28,000 moles on my 2019 Ram 2500 6.7. I took it to the dealership this week because I had a check engine light pop on and it was time for an oil change anyway. They changed oil and filters and cleared the check engine light by running a manual regen. I got my truck back and the next day the check engine light came back on. So I dropped it back off yesterday. Today the service manager called and said that there is soap in my DEF tank/system and that I should call my insurance agent because we are looking at $5,000 or more in repair costs that will not be covered by warranty. He said it was probably vandalism. I am pretty low key, park in safe places (home and work mostly) don't have any known enemies and haven't had any incidents with anyone. I am at a loss as to what to do. I haven't called insurance yet.

DEF delete and drive on.

About how much would that cost? Any leads for a shop in the Clear Lake area (or Houston) that can do the work?

I think I spent about 2300 parts and labor including a new muffler to do the dpf & egr removal. Better MPG, better acceleration, less weight, no DEF, happy camper.

2012 F250

DEF is injected into the exhaust as a catalyst, it never touches the engine or its components. I would think that draining and flushing the DEF tank and maybe replacing some sensors would get you back on the road for FAR less than 5 grand. Hell, the DEF doesnt even have anything to do with a regen. I think the ram dealer sees some easy dollar signs.

If I'm not mistaken typically dealerships when they do an oil change they top off fluids. I would see if they topped off the DEF and put it back on them if they did.

If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

TRIDENT said:

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Have about 28,000 moles

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Anyone else get a flashback to freshman chemistry that the dodge dealer did a chemical analysis of the DEF and determined how many moles of soap were in the mixture?

Dill-Ag13 said:

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Anyone else get a flashback to senior chemistry that

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FIFM

Also if you are gonna keep your truck emissions legal you can always find someone who deleted and take their entire exhaust for a couple hundred dollars

I would inquire how this diagnosis was made before I allow them to jump into a $5000 repair (likely full aftertreatment replacement)

I called and told them I'm just going to pick it up as is. They told me that they already had it apart and a new catalytic converter installed.

TRIDENT said:

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I called and told them I'm just going to pick it up as is. They told me that they already had it apart and a new catalytic converter installed.

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"So glad y'all decided to cover this under warranty. What? I never authorized repairs to be made. You're doing this out of your own good will/pocket."

The Ghost of DUCK01 said:

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TRIDENT said:

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I called and told them I'm just going to pick it up as is. They told me that they already had it apart and a new catalytic converter installed.

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"So glad y'all decided to cover this under warranty. What? I never authorized repairs to be made. You're doing this out of your own good will/pocket."

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Exactly. Jump all over that and make sure they know in no uncertain terms that you never authorized any work. Get the service manager on the phone quickly if they throw up any resistance. You can't dither on this or you'll get screwed bad.

TRIDENT said:

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I called and told them I'm just going to pick it up as is. They told me that they already had it apart and a new catalytic converter installed.

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They said call your insurance company and then started repairs before hearing from the company? Sound like they are the ones who put the soap in there to begin with and are trying to hide the evidence.

JAW3336 said:

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TRIDENT said:

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I called and told them I'm just going to pick it up as is. They told me that they already had it apart and a new catalytic converter installed.

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They said call your insurance company and then started repairs before hearing from the company? Sound like they are the ones who put the soap in there to begin with and are trying to hide the evidence.

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Reminds me of when Roundup herbicide came out. Cost $70 a gallon in1980 dollars, which would be $225 today. It has the same honey color as tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid. One of our neighbor's non-English speaking hired hands needed hydraulic fluid, found a jug with the right color liquid, and poured it in.

Losing $70 of Roundup hurt.

A $10,000 transmission overhaul hurt worse.

JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

Nobody Knows My Name said:

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JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

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But I'll have $5000 in my pocket to call the tow truck.

Nobody Knows My Name said:

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JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

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What additional damage would going to limp mode cause. None by my estimate, I would flush def system then load up a heavy trailer and do a 100miles and get the exhaust good and hot. We will call this a redneck Italian tune up

TSW2012 said:

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Nobody Knows My Name said:

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JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

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What additional damage would going to limp mode cause. None by my estimate, I would flush def system then load up a heavy trailer and do a 100miles and get the exhaust good and hot. We will call this a redneck Italian tune up

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In limp mode it will be limited to about 5 mph. He needs to flush the tank, lines, and injector that is in the exhaust. Getting the exhaust hot does nothing, as it is downstream of the DPF. As long as the sensor in the tank is still good and the sensor at the injector and the injector is still good, he should be good. The DEF system is completely independent of the DPF. The DEF injects the DEF fluid based on engine load. You can hear the injector clicking on my 2020 duramax as soon as you start the engine. I would imagine Rams are the same.

clarythedrill said:

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TSW2012 said:

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Nobody Knows My Name said:

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JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

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What additional damage would going to limp mode cause. None by my estimate, I would flush def system then load up a heavy trailer and do a 100miles and get the exhaust good and hot. We will call this a redneck Italian tune up

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In limp mode it will be limited to about 5 mph. He needs to flush the tank, lines, and injector that is in the exhaust. Getting the exhaust hot does nothing, as it is downstream of the DPF. As long as the sensor in the tank is still good and the sensor at the injector and the injector is still good, he should be good. The DEF system is completely independent of the DPF. The DEF injects the DEF fluid based on engine load. You can hear the injector clicking on my 2020 duramax as soon as you start the engine. I would imagine Rams are the same.

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Exactly if it goes into limp mode no damage is mechanicaly done. Def flow is a function of exhaust flow by being under load it willl flow more to the scr. I'm not sure on the pickups but on big the big SCRs there is emissions monitoring post scr that confirms the DEF is effective.

TSW2012 said:

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clarythedrill said:

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TSW2012 said:

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Nobody Knows My Name said:

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JB said:

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If it's not acting up, I would just drive it. Not paying $5k to turn an engine light off.

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Great until it goes into limp mode...

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What additional damage would going to limp mode cause. None by my estimate, I would flush def system then load up a heavy trailer and do a 100miles and get the exhaust good and hot. We will call this a redneck Italian tune up

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In limp mode it will be limited to about 5 mph. He needs to flush the tank, lines, and injector that is in the exhaust. Getting the exhaust hot does nothing, as it is downstream of the DPF. As long as the sensor in the tank is still good and the sensor at the injector and the injector is still good, he should be good. The DEF system is completely independent of the DPF. The DEF injects the DEF fluid based on engine load. You can hear the injector clicking on my 2020 duramax as soon as you start the engine. I would imagine Rams are the same.

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Exactly if it goes into limp mode no damage is mechanicaly done. Def flow is a function of exhaust flow by being under load it willl flow more to the scr. I'm not sure on the pickups but on big the big SCRs there is emissions monitoring post scr that confirms the DEF is effective.

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I guess my point is that it is hard to do an Italian tune up at 5 mph. I hope the OP gets it straightened out, and not on his dime and not with an insurance claim.

I picked it up and paid zero out of pocket. They covered the catalytic converter under warranty.

so if you do a DEF delete, I'm guessing you have to live in a county that doesn't do emissions in the vehicle inspections, right? or just not get it inspected and plate tags?

SquanchyAg said:

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so if you do a DEF delete, I'm guessing you have to live in a county that doesn't do emissions in the vehicle inspections, right? or just not get it inspected and plate tags?

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Diesels do not have to get emissions testing in Texas. Just safety inspection.

They do a visual inspection of the exhaust in all counties. It should fail in all counties without a DpF

I've had it both ways and found that deleted wasn't worth the hassle , the alleged mpg gains, or the added noise.

Nobody Knows My Name said:

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SquanchyAg said:

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so if you do a DEF delete, I'm guessing you have to live in a county that doesn't do emissions in the vehicle inspections, right? or just not get it inspected and plate tags?

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Diesels do not have to get emissions testing in Texas. Just safety inspection.

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gotcha. I knew my 2006 duramax didn't have emission testing, but it was before DEF, so wasn't sure about DEF diesels.

28,000 moles. You may need some form of professional extermination.

DEF wise- my '14 6.7 powerstroke underwent weight loss surgery due to a plugged EGR. Good decision because it'll become my ranch truck eventually, bad decision if you ever want to trade it in. Being new and under warranty....I'd fix it.

I've got 250,000 moles on it now, half of which is deleted. Diesels don't have to meet an emissions standard, but removing/modifying emmisions control equipment....that's the stickler. EPA has cracked down on shops performing the work, so no one advertises it anymore. Got to be word of mouth, or order parts from another country and do it yourself- Canadian websites still have the delete kits up, but not the US ones.

I had a '16 Titan that somehow got bad def from a pump- Nissan covered under warranty but was about $2,000 to replace the tank, injector system, sensors. Seems like Ram could do the same? Should be able to flush it out and refill it for way less than $5,000. Hell a brand new system installed should cost less than that.

Shoot me a pm and I'll tell you about a shop I know that will do it.

So is it blowing bubbles out of the exhaust?

Yes on bubbles coming from exhaust.