I'm contemplating buying a P85 Model S, but wondering if anyone here has one. I see a lot of them in other cities, not so much here.

I've seen a lot of them in Houston...I'm curious too

Some questions.

- Where do you charge it?

- How long does it take the charge?

- What is the effective cost of a full charge?


I get the fascination with wanting an electric car, but it seems (to me at least) that there isnt anywhere near enough infrastructure in place yet or a high enough adoption % for it to make sense to buy one yet. Then again, i dont keep very close tabs on the electric car industry.

What are the reasons you (or anyone else) is considering buying a ~$100k electric car?

I'm genuinely curious.

It would be perfect for me. I don't really take long trips, other than game day, and can always rent a car for that.

Plus, there aren't a lot of them here yet. The 5-series and S 550 have sort of become like the Toyota Camry in my area.

From some research, you can charge it at home through a special charging station, or you can charge it at any AC power outlet. The range looks to be ~250 miles per charge

It looks like it charges approximately 30 miles per hour, but the majority of my trips are 15 miles or less.

Charger is 10 kWh, so not going to really break the bank.



[This message has been edited by $30,000 Millionaire (edited 9/23/2013 12:43p).]

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The 5-series and S 550 have sort of become like the Toyota Camry in my area.

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Good old Dallas county.

I don't have anything to add other than I hope you get the Tesla and post up here about free rides.

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From some research, you can charge it at home through a special charging station, or you can charge it at any AC power outlet. The range looks to be ~250 miles per charge

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Whats a 'special charging station'? How much does the 'special charging station' cost?

Any AC Power outlet? So basically anywhere, including home. Do you need the same 'special charging station' at any AC outlet? If so, how easy is it to keep the the 'special charging station' on you at all (or most all) of the time?

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It looks like it charges approximately 30 miles per hour, but the majority of my trips are 15 miles or less.

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Huh?

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Charger is 10 kWh, so not going to really break the bank.

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A full charge takes 10 kWh? So assuming approx $.10 per kWh, that's approx $1 per full charge?

How long (minutes/hours) does it take to get a full charge?

I would go to cars and coffee if it wasn't in BFE Plano / Frisco.

It looks like the battery recharges at a rate of 30 miles of range per hour of charging with the standard, included charger. At that rate, it would more or less take 8-8.5 hours for a full recharge. If it is $1/hour, then it would be $8 or so for 250 miles, which is pretty good.

Charger is included in the price of the car. It apparently also supports standard 110V AC outlet, 240V, and public charging stations.

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It looks like the battery recharges at a rate of 30 miles of range per hour of charging with the standard, included charger.

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Gotcha. So it basically needs to be charged over night, every night. Which isnt completely terrible, unless you're traveling somewhere overnight (hotel, etc). Then you're kind of screwed. Or find a parking place near an outlet and hope your (presumably) expensive charger doesnt get jacked over night.

Does that math (~$8 per full charge) sound about right to those who are more familiar?

I've been looking into these myself, and have talked myself into it and out of it several times. I've ridden in a friends and have had pretty extensive conversation about it. My test drive is scheduled for Thursday.

Its "cheap" to drive in regards to fuel, but your RoI horizon is waaaaay out there. With the high torque electric motor, its quite quick, especially for a heavy car. Exterior styling look quite nice in person. The interior is in my opinion spartan (outside of the awesome big screen). AC blows cold pretty quick. I have 2 friends who rave about interior because its so 'simple' and 'clean'. In my opinion this really shouldn't be considered a touring sedan, as the creature comforts are sparse. The amenity list in the back seat literally stops at 'seat'. (I keep thinking there should be rear seat cup holders in a $90k + car.) For popping around town or sitting in traffic, its fine.


I'll take a stab at Q&A, based on my understanding as a combination of manufacturer info and anecdotal info from my friend.
Charging nomenclature: Charging is considered in miles/hour, as in "I added 60 miles of additional range in one hour." Up to the range max of the car.

How long it takes to charge?
A full charge of a 85kWh battery is ~260 miles, so 4.3 hours if you are charging at 80amp.

Where do you charge it? Mostly at home. There are several ways to charge, all the way down to 110v plug. My friend said that the 110 plug is basically useless, because you only add 7-9 miles per hour. If you get the high power home charging ($2700 + installation), then you can get your charge rate up to 60 mile in one hour. FYI, he hasn't actually been able to get this rate yet because the fuses in the charging system weren't holding up. The new certified ones for 80amps are on the way now. Super charger stations are being added in various places across the country, mostly to connect large cities. It will juice you up to 50% in only 20 minutes. Caveat: Because it is shooting a ton of electrons into the batteries fast, it automatically limits the rate down hard after 50%. So if you arrive with over half a charge, don't expect to top off in Waco. You can but it will be at something like 30mile per hour or something, IIRC.

Cost to charge?
If you have the big battery 85kWh @ $.10 = $8.50 to 'fill up'.

a poster here traded in an M5 for one and sounded very happy about the decision.

Good info Klingon.

@ ~$70 per "fill up" net benefit, the break even on the premium paid ($90k vs say...$60k) would come way down the line. For the typical consumer in the market for a premium vehicle, the chances of them holding onto it long enough to realize the financial benefit is probably unlikely.

So, if not the "it only costs me $8 to 'fill up'!" angle, and with the current infrastructure not even in it's infancy (and all of the potential work around's that creates), whats the big draw?

Because it's 'new and different'? Because you want to 'do your part to help the environment'? Something completely different i'm missing?

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Plus, there aren't a lot of them here yet. The 5-series and S 550 have sort of become like the Toyota Camry in my area.

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This seems to be the reason people own them in Austin.

The Tesla has gotten incredible reviews from just about everybody. It is a game changing automobile IMO - think Henry Ford and mass production.

It is the first electric car that is actually a good car on its own merits. The range makes most real world driving a cinch. It is as fast as a BMW M or Merc AMG to 100MPH - that is simply unbelievable! It is quiet, big and comfortable. It handles very well due to its clean sheet design - the batteries are distributed evenly inches above the ground for ideal weight distribution/handling. Predecessors had their batteries stuffed in any and all available open spaces in existing vehicle platforms - batteries high in the trunk equaled abhorrent handling. Their toys - like the super giant ipad like control screen - are fun. And they are incredibly safe to boot - best crash test scores of all time.

For roadtrips Tesla is currently unveiling strategically placed free supercharging stations that will give a half charge in under 20 minutes. If that is too long some will have the capability of swapping out the entire battery pack (for a fee) in less than 2 minutes!

Elon Musk has taken every liability of the electric car world (slow/small/unsafe/range anxiety) and come up with solutions that make the Tesla impressively usable for the needs of most drivers. Tesla has turned skeptics like me - a hardcore petrolhead - into believers.

That's all well and good*, then why hasn't he made a single bit of profit with this "game changer"?






*and, like I've mentioned before, I like the idea of a great looking electric vehicle.

I would guess that most new, innovative products don't make money for a while, if at all. That doesn't mean that they aren't good, innovative, or game changing. Guess what, money isn't always a good measuring stick!

robert

They are installing rapid charging stations within the triangle of San Marcos, Dallas, and Houston. Half a charge in ~20 minutes.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Tesla-will-soon-be-charging-into-Texas-4736971.php

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For the typical consumer in the market for a premium vehicle, the chances of them holding onto it long enough to realize the financial benefit is probably unlikely.

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Who buys a premium vehicle considering its ROI? Not one person I know who drives a 5 series or E class or Lexus GS gives a rats ass about ROI. Bunches of these cars are leased, which means the owner always has a car payment. They choose cars to match their lifestyle.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 9/24/2013 11:08a).]

At a certain price point, leasing the vehicle makes more sense. One of my VPs has made money on selling his leased Mercedes to CarMax after he bought out the remainder of the lease. Also, leases can be rolled in comp packages for execs and paid for with pre-tax money. We have a few physicians that do this because they drive for business and we can justify it.

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That's all well and good*, then why hasn't he made a single bit of profit with this "game changer"?






*and, like I've mentioned before, I like the idea of a great looking electric vehicle.

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The actual game changer isn't always the one that makes a nice profit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Tucker_Sedan

If you're going to/from the game, there is now a charging station on the north side of Waco, right next to the Collin Street Bakery.

How many chargers are at the station?

If there's only 1 station, and everyone plans on using it, seems like your 2-20 minutes may turn into grabbing a nearby hotel room for the night.

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That's all well and good*, then why hasn't he made a single bit of profit with this "game changer"?

*and, like I've mentioned before, I like the idea of a great looking electric vehicle.

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I think the point was why is it so heavily subsidized (think Solar cos.)...but I also agree with others in that it is a game-changer, but I would like to see Musk stand on his own monetary merits. (/B&I board)

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That's all well and good*, then why hasn't he made a single bit of profit with this "game changer"?

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The technology is the game changer, and the Model S is proof of concept. The $40k sedan is where they'll finally become profitable IMO.

As far as charging goes, check out http://www.evgonetwork.com/. These things are popping up all over Houston. I assume it's the same in Dallas/Austin.

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If there's only 1 station, and everyone plans on using it, seems like your 2-20 minutes may turn into grabbing a nearby hotel room for the night.

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I think there are several.

I drove by for the first time the other day and there were no cars there.

I live in the nicer part of town and have never seen a Tesla, I doubt that the station will be busy for a long time.

I have a test drive in a few weeks. For me it comes down to an incredible luxury car with good speed and minimal long term cost. Just think... no starter, no alternafor, no oil, no gaskets, no pistons, no timing belt.. My main concern is battery lifespan and replacement cost. They currently have an 8 year unlimited mile warranty on the battery which is nice but I am looking at it for a long term investment.

Sobuy a 50-60k normal car or 80k innovative machine...

There is no real innovation in a Tesla, its all consumer technology put together and marketed well.

Battery is a whole f-load of laptop battery cells, electric machine is something that could have run a water pump in 1985, the main thing is that they are doing what Americans do well, selling the hell out of it.

Also you cant expect "too" much luxury features because they are selling driving range and not heated asses, so they have to cut features where available, its our problem in hybrid powertrains as well, we want to improve our fuel consumption and the guys in the interior departments always want new toys using more energy.

So... What you're saying is...

They're not "that" special. Just so everyone is aware.

Being that there were electric carriages while people were still coming up with the steam engine cars, no, they're not all that "innovative".

Click

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By the turn of the century, America was prosperous and cars, now available in steam, electric, or gasoline versions, were becoming more popular. The years 1899 and 1900 were the high point of electric cars in America, as they outsold all other types of cars. One example was the 1902 Phaeton built by the Woods Motor Vehicle Company of Chicago, which had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000. Later in 1916, Woods invented a hybrid car that had both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor.
Electric vehicles had many advantages over their competitors in the early 1900s. They did not have the vibration, smell, and noise associated with gasoline cars. Changing gears on gasoline cars was the most difficult part of driving, while electric vehicles did not require gear changes. While steam-powered cars also had no gear shifting, they suffered from long start-up times of up to 45 minutes on cold mornings. The steam cars had less range before needing water than an electric's range on a single charge. The only good roads of the period were in town, causing most travel to be local commuting, a perfect situation for electric vehicles, since their range was limited. The electric vehicle was the preferred choice of many because it did not require the manual effort to start, as with the hand crank on gasoline vehicles, and there was no wrestling with a gear shifter.

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A lot of the same complaints about ICE engines, a lot of the same "Oooo, isn't this nice!" statements about e-cars and a lot of the same limitations....100+ yrs ago.

The Woods Phaeton, 1902:

Nice find BigRob! 18 mile range booya!
And $2000 back then was a ton o cash, didn't ICE cars back then cost under $1000?

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There is no real innovation in a Tesla, its all consumer technology put together and marketed well.

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I could say the same thing about the new obscene S-class. Incorporating radar, lasers, sensors of every kind, connected by a data bus, and turned into action by motors and hydraulics isn't innovative. Not sure it is even close to the innovation in a mainstream smartphone today.

My takeaway from this: A Tesla slept with Samuels mother.

Saw a Fisker in Longview last night. It was beautiful, Black with glossy black wheels. I was going to snap a pic until a ****box Hyundai pulled up beside it and blocked the view. There's a regular at our restaurant that has a Tesla. It's a beautifully designed car as well, just a much more conservative look.

[This message has been edited by aggieforester05 (edited 10/8/2013 10:01p).]

I went for my test drive today and I plan to buy one sometime in the next year. I am not a global warming follower or anything but this car is simply amazing.

The acceleration is really impressive and comes instantly with significant torque even at 70 mph. There are no gears so no pause when you hit the peddle and it zips off. The braking is very interesting and you can change it with the GUI if you don't like it. Basically when you take the foot off the gas it starts running the motor in reverse to charge battery while it slows you down. It feels very similar to down shifting with a stick. I didn't have to brake hard during the test and almost never hit the brake pedal. Also you can turn "creep" off and on which I like off. Creep is basically your idle with an automatic.

Between the 8 year battery warranty, speed, handling, and very minimal maintenance I'm goin to be a buyer if my finances work out as projected over the next 12 months.