Alright ET let's get political...

14,548 Views | 188 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by RockOn
dromo07
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Change the name of Lee and or JT?

Moved from Cali to Tyler in 92 and graduated from Lee in 98. As a minority it doesn't bother me but I tend to have thick skin. Don't care either way actually I just don't want my damn taxes to go up for it.

I know one of the board members is on here.

What say ye ET board?
AGC
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Academic achievement will go through the roof after the name change. At least a few points change in scores for minorities since they don't have to live in the shadow of a slave owners name.
Josepi
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School Board meeting tonight should be a circus.

Honestly, I don't really care. I didn't graduate from REL, and the issue doesn't really move the needle for me in either direction. However, I'm not a minority, so I don't have the life experiences that would possibly make me feel otherwise.

My wife on the other hand thinks that the name should be changed. She believed that with a new school on the way, this is the perfect time to do it. She doesn't see any harm to changing the name, and only possible benefits. She thinks the only reasons to keep the name are nostalgia and the refusal to bow to political correctness, which in her eyes are both weak arguments.

RockOn
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I didn't go to REL, and have lived here since 2010. I did go to a public school in rural east Texas that got by just fine being named after the city it was located in.

I am in favor of changing the name with the new school coming on.



dromo07
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Quote:

School Board meeting tonight should be a circus.
It was last night and it was interesting to say the least.

AGC
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Since everyone went the serious route...I think it should stay. People are complex, not simple, and can't be reduced to a single aspect of their life even after death. It's a great opportunity to discuss morality and people with your kids. And if you're a minority thats upset, what better way to get your revenge than being a straight A student graduating from a school named after a slave owner?

People disagree that it's erasing history but that is untrue. After the war the south was desecrated and violated in a lot of ways. Lincoln would have stood before Nuremberg had it been around in his time. This is part of the South's memory, not solely as a monument to slavery (since the vast majority didn't own slaves), but to the men who died to protect us from the atrocities of the Yankees. My grandparents are from Mississippi and I went to school in South Carolina. We have long memories and aren't as far removed as the SJW movement here wants to believe.
pantherag
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It should not change and I hope the School Board will not buckle to faux outrage and the created topic of the week.
Josepi
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It seems like people from Tyler want to keep the name, and people who weren't raised in Tyler want to change it.

Also, I don't need a high school name in order to "discuss morality and people" with my kids. Good parents will be having those discussions no matter what the name of the high school is. And surely you are not suggesting that they keep the name of the school in order to motivate minority students to succeed out of a sense of revenge.

The argument I hear over and over again for keeping it seems to boil down to..."We're not going to let those liberal politicians/media tell us what to do." It's phrased a hundred different ways, but the message is the same.




AGC
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Josepi said:

It seems like people from Tyler want to keep the name, and people who weren't raised in Tyler want to change it.

Also, I don't need a high school name in order to "discuss morality and people" with my kids. Good parents will be having those discussions no matter what the name of the high school is. And surely you are not suggesting that they keep the name of the school in order to motivate minority students to succeed out of a sense of revenge.

The argument I hear over and over again for keeping it seems to boil down to..."We're not going to let those liberal politicians/media tell us what to do." It's phrased a hundred different ways, but the message is the same.


Do you think the history taught in schools is adequate? We've reduced presidents to a single catch phrase (the new deal, walk softly and carry a big stick). Historical figures are inserted for the purposes of social engineering. The civil was has been reduced to slavery (an egregious oversimplification) and north good, south bad. Perhaps you sit down with your kids and talk about the history they learn every day but most parents don't. This is a good place for them to start. With the current climate of virtue signaling and slogans like 'silence is violence' it's time to teach that people are complex and disagreement isn't hatred and the other side isn't pure evil.

One of the guys leading the charge, Montalvo, is super SJW. This won't stop here. It's not about REL, much like other people have already called for Rushmore to come down, Jefferson, Washington, and Lincoln has been defaced too. Reality is a slippery slope and only the naive don't see that.
Josepi
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The Civil War and Robert E Lee are fascinating parts of our history, and no, they can not be reduced to good or bad. They are complex and interesting events and people. They should be discussed. However, I just have a hard time believing that the name of a high school is going to spark that dinner time conversation. I just not buying that kids who attend a school named REL High School are going to be having more of those conversations than a kid who attends a school named Tyler High School (that's just an example).
AGC
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Josepi said:

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The Civil War and Robert E Lee are fascinating parts of our history, and no, they can not be reduced to good or bad. They are complex and interesting events and people. They should be discussed. However, I just have a hard time believing that the name of a high school is going to spark that dinner time conversation. I just not buying that kids who attend a school named REL High School are going to be having more of those conversations than a kid who attends a school named Tyler High School (that's just an example).


It's sparking conversation right now that wouldn't otherwise be had. Should the south get to be proud of men who stood against tyranny and federalism and lost? No, because racism.
pantherag
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The name of the HS hasn't been an issue for the last 40-50 years, BUT all of a sudden it's an issue and it's hurtful to many folks. I'm not buying into the manufactured outrage. Changing the name will not have any lasting impact on the current or future students. What a naming change will create is a significant cost to the district and tax payer.

Once the SJW outrage of the week blows over, this will pass and the school name will become a non issue.
Josepi
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Quote:

What a naming change will create is a significant cost to the district and tax payer.

How will changing the name of the new high school cost taxpayers money?
dromo07
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completely new branding is a start.
pantherag
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Josepi said:

Quote:

What a naming change will create is a significant cost to the district and tax payer.

How will changing the name of the new high school cost taxpayers money?

It's not a "New" HS, it's the same HS in some new structures.

You have uniforms, administrative items, lettering in various places of the current structure, etc., that would all have to be replaced or updated with the name change of a school. Yes there would be a cost involved. Who will cover the bill for this change?
AGC
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Josepi said:

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The Civil War and Robert E Lee are fascinating parts of our history, and no, they can not be reduced to good or bad. They are complex and interesting events and people. They should be discussed. However, I just have a hard time believing that the name of a high school is going to spark that dinner time conversation. I just not buying that kids who attend a school named REL High School are going to be having more of those conversations than a kid who attends a school named Tyler High School (that's just an example).


Btw I'm sorry if I'm too direct or personal, those posts aren't meant to be an attack. I hope you don't take them that way. I respect you and your opinions here, as I would for everyone whether they are an Ag or not. Stive says you're good people so you definitely get the benefit of the doubt. Full disclosure too: I'm not from Tyler but Austin originally.

I just read an article on kltv about the meeting and feel it's worth highlighting something. Montalvo had his oldest daughter walk in there with a REL shirt on and complain that her identity was chosen for her, that she didn't have a say in it. I think this epitomizes the true debate: do you get to chose your identity or not? How many high schoolers actually do choose what HS they go to or what it's named? And does going to REL really signify anything about your identity? Does it doom minorities to failure and taunt them? I think it's dangerous to validate feelings because everyone's are unique and they are easily deceived and manipulated.
Owlagdad
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Should be Tyler East and West High shools-- not named for anyone, regardless of who they are and what people want, or who donates, or for teachers, or athletes. Never will please either side-- ever.
Josepi
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No worries. I don't get my feeling hurt by stuff like this. People have a right to their opinion. Just because it may not line up with mine doesn't mean its wrong. I actually like the ET board is having a discussion outside of what new restaurants are coming to town (even though I like those too).

And don't listen to what Stive says. He's a shady character.

My high school mascot was the Mules. Did that cause me to suffer from a crippling lack of self confidence when interacting with someone who attended a high school with a more majestic mascot such as an Eagle? Do people judge me differently because my high school mascot was a sterile crossbreed? Of course not.
The same should be said for REL. I don't believe that the name REL thrusts an identity onto people that they didn't ask for as that girl commented.

If it wasn't a slow morning at work, I really wouldn't be commenting all that much on this. As I said earlier, it doesn't really move the needle all that much with me. My kid will most likely be attending the school one day, and I wont really care if it is REL or Tyler East high school. I just haven't heard a solid argument (to me at least) for keeping it. Nostalgia, and pushing back at the pc movement in this country aren't solid arguments. Yes, it is creating some good discussion, but you don't need a high school name to do that. And the cost to rebrand? In the grand scheme of things that's a drop in the bucket. If we weren't building a new school, I would say leave it alone. However, we are at a crossroads where changing the name would be as easy as it ever will be.



Murphag
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It should stay Robert E. Lee. It's history, learn from it. There's a petition with 7500 names on it for keeping it, and in the hundreds for changing it. That should be the answer right there. Plus a riot has already been fought over it.
I hear most of the speakers last night wanted to change it but also that they were mostly under the age of 35. Not a good representation.

I don't think "it's the best time to change the name" is near a good reason to do it. Would you say "Let's change the name of the White House" every 4 years because it's a good time when a new president comes in. That's a good reason to change the drapes. It's just avoiding the issue really. Your wife may have other reasons you don't state, though.

I think keeping it to stand against PC is a great reason. This IS the time and place to try to stop PC. When else will there be? Are you willing to give up everything? This guy just wants a name as an SJW. It's not hurting anybody as some of you say.

As Josepi states, a lot of the feeling is due to the horrible treatment of the South after the War. I love the Nuremburg analogy



Aggiebrewer
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I remember when they took away the rebel mascot & dixie flag.
I can understand the argument for changing it.

This whole "hide history" movement from the left is just a foot in the door. They will attack attack attack every day until Washington, Adams, Jefferson et al are no longer icons of liberty but loathed as tyrants.
In the end their target is the Constitution & our founding.
Sadly, many useful idiots will ride the train to tyranny with them.
Murphag
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I found out a month ago at the funeral of my aunt, the last of the older generation in my family, that Yankees killed my great-great-grandfather for his horses in front of my 10-yr old great-grandfather. My GGF didn't have any slaves. My relative didn't mention if the Yankees remarked "this is because we left our families for years to risk our own lives so people we don't know can be free" but maybe I can find out.

So, yeah, now it's personal

So why shouldn't our families' lives be remembered in some way?

KMRA
who?mikejones
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John Tyler was worse than lee.
TOM-M
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who?mikejones said:

John Tyler was worse than lee.


Bingo.

Next up, the city council.
Aggiebrewer
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who?mikejones said:

John Tyler was worse than lee.



Earl Campbell High School?
dromo07
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Lee could become Lee Ann Womack High School that way you can keep the "Lee" stuff the same. Not like the mascot will change unless the term Raider becomes offensive
Stive
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How in the wide world of sports did I get drug into this?
Josepi
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I was wondering what took you so long to arrive.

And no Stive...we can't name the school The Stive School for Kids who Can't Read Good. No one is going to sign your petition.
Aggiebrewer
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dromo07 said:

Lee could become Lee Ann Womack High School that way you can keep the "Lee" stuff the same. Not like the mascot will change unless the term Raider becomes offensive



They already changed mascot from Rebels. Like 1979 or thereabouts
dromo07
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Well rebels was changed for obvious reasons. I don't think raiders is a "offensive" term
Murphag
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San Antonio just bent over and took it in the rear! Hope TISD doesn't do the same. Just listen to this quote -

"the group stated. "The idea that Robert E. Lee is part of a history that cannot be erased must be defeated. This stops today."

Hope we're not part of the start of the revising of history.
Josepi
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Mur**** said:


"the group stated. "The idea that Robert E. Lee is part of a history that cannot be erased must be defeated. This stops today.".


I didn't realize that we were going to stop teaching kids about REL in school, and that we were removing all the books and documentaries about him from the library. Should the school go back to Flying the Confederate Battle Flag, and playing Dixie like they did in the '60's so that we can honor history? I'll bet most people don't even know what those things are anymore since the school stopped using them.
AGC
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Josepi said:

Mur**** said:


"the group stated. "The idea that Robert E. Lee is part of a history that cannot be erased must be defeated. This stops today.".


I didn't realize that we were going to stop teaching kids about REL in school, and that we were removing all the books and documentaries about him from the library. Should the school go back to Flying the Confederate Battle Flag, and playing Dixie like they did in the '60's so that we can honor history? I'll bet most people don't even know what those things are anymore since the school stopped using them.


It's pretty much already been done. Individuals are reduced to single phrases and words. Confederacy bad, union good. Want to take a guess at what those library books say about the civil war? Think they'll contradict the textbook?
pantherag
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Mur**** said:

San Antonio just bent over and took it in the rear! Hope TISD doesn't do the same. Just listen to this quote -

"the group stated. "The idea that Robert E. Lee is part of a history that cannot be erased must be defeated. This stops today."

Hope we're not part of the start of the revising of history.

Hope TISD doesn't buckle. Stay strong Tyler.
PhotoAg70
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If you change the name of Robert E. Lee, don't you have to change the name of John Tyler, as well, for the same reason, in order to be consistent? And if you must change the name of John Tyler High School, don't you logically have to change the name of the city?
TOM-M
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PhotoAg70 said:

If you change the name of Robert E. Lee, don't you have to change the name of John Tyler, as well, for the same reason, in order to be consistent? And if you must change the name of John Tyler High School, don't you logically have to change the name of the city?
The name change consideration has absolutely zero to do with consistency or logic.

But I suspect you know that.
 
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