I haven't played there in years but wow, what a blow to homeowners.

I also heard that a group of 10 or 15 SPI homeowners bought out their course and that's why they did the greens renovation last fall. I haven't played there since they did it but I heard it was really nice now.

That's crazy! I guess all the carteleros who've set up shop at Cimarron don't play golf.

As far as SPI, I played there with a work associate back in late April/Early May and the greens were in fantastic shape. I can also comment on Treasure Hills CC as well. Those greens are in great shape, too, as is most of the course with the exception of #18 fairway, which is a goat path. Don't know why they can't keep it in good condition.

Wow are you serious, I looked on the interwebs and couldn't find anything about that. Did you get any details on the why's and the haps afterwards?

That golf course has had an illustrious, odd, and almost cursed existence. There have been what, 3 bankruptcies associated with that course and club?

Pretty obvious that golf isn't what it once was in the RGV, and some might say it just never was.

https://myrgv.com/publications/the-monitor/2022/07/28/cimarron-country-club-to-shutter-its-doors-amid-lawsuits-defamation/

Found it, wow the club house and social deal too. That is for sure going to impact a lot of the homeowners out there. I guess whoever owns it can make it a new development. Back in the day the golf and club activities were about the only attractive feature of living out there.

They had a bunch of Jap and Korean maquila guys living out there for years and years, and they played golf and drank like fishes, I think there is nowhere near the amount of them any more.

Wow. That place used to be a pretty neat spot back in the day. I attended many lunches, non-profit events, and golf tournaments there.

Cimarron was/is one of those places that seemed snake bit from the start. There have been what? 3 or 4 bankruptcies or pre-bankruptcy sales of the place? No Golf community in the RGV, fully private, has ever really made it. I guess the place in Laguna Vista might be the closest, there was actually a huge development planned there in the 1980's, long before the current version came about. A few people got swindled in that deal. If I am not mistaken some of the original money guys from that deal shifted over to Cimarron.

One of my dearest friends dad is often talked about as the only person that ever made any money out of Cimarron. I won't go into names and such, but he is a cantankerous, outspoken, and loose cannon that has done very well for himself over the years. He was an original partner in Cimarron and was such a SOB, that he was bought out at future profits, just to get him out. I don't know all the details but he structured himself as a secured creditor in the deal and when it went teats up the first time his claim held up and carried into the second version somehow.

Once the second group took over he agreed with them to reach a settlement and part of it was cash and part in services from Cimarron. I remember that circa 85'/86' we would go over there and try to replicate the upscale restaurant scene from the Blues Brothers. We had fake ID's and would get hammered at the bar and eat like starving Armenians and my buddy just signed a ticket.

Rancho Viejo is supposedly for sale or something is going on with it as well. It has passed through various owners, I think the most recent one is Sergio Arguelles, or was, of the Mexican FINSA industrial park mega-wealth and or his son in law.

In reality I just don't think the RGV has the numbers of moneyed golfers, nor the attractions to lure them, that can make a really nice golf community viable.

McAllen CC is the only private club in the Valley that hasn't really struggled much. They have a large membership base.

Sergio Arguelles and his son-in-law, who was essentially the GM, both passed away within a day or two of each other earlier this year. The club is in the hands of his daughter, who is apparently crossways with the town of Rancho Viejo. Lot of rumors about the future of the club and golf course.

SPI golf course has been through plenty of ownership changes since it started, but seems to have a stable group of owners now.

I thought I had heard that Arguelles died, which son in law died? The local attorney one? Wow, holy smokes, I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about that.

I wonder which daughter is running it now, and I have heard the same thing that the club is at odds with the town and some members. I am not as connected to the RV folks as I once was so quien sabe.

MCC has survived OK, but they are down on members as well and every so often there are rumblings of that land being sold off. But I understand it is a not an easy process. They were offered a kings ransom at the height of the South McAllen hotel and shopping boom, but old time members said NO.

The management there, as well as the board, has always been locked and cocked, but there are no homes associated with it and no tie into any development and I think that helps them greatly. The Harlingen CC also hit some hard times or something right?

Back in the day I hung out with some folks that frequented VICC quite a bit, and it seemed like a cool deal. Who knows now. I remember there was upheaval there in the 90's.

RGV AG said:

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I thought I had heard that Arguelles died, which son in law died? The local attorney one? Wow, holy smokes, I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about that.

I wonder which daughter is running it now, and I have heard the same thing that the club is at odds with the town and some members. I am not as connected to the RV folks as I once was so quien sabe.

MCC has survived OK, but they are down on members as well and every so often there are rumblings of that land being sold off. But I understand it is a not an easy process. They were offered a kings ransom at the height of the South McAllen hotel and shopping boom, but old time members said NO.

The management there, as well as the board, has always been locked and cocked, but there are no homes associated with it and no tie into any development and I think that helps them greatly. The Harlingen CC also hit some hard times or something right?

Back in the day I hung out with some folks that frequented VICC quite a bit, and it seemed like a cool deal. Who knows now. I remember there was upheaval there in the 90's.

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Tony McDermid is who passed away. He and Sergio within a day or two of each other.

HCC has had issues since they tore the clubhouse down in 2008, after Dolly, and took on too much debt to build a new clubhouse. I'm a member there and have served on the board and finance committee here and there. I could fill a whole page telling you about the trials (many) and tribulations (fewer) since 2008.

I grew up playing VICC, and then Rancho when it opened. My father's company was the architect and designer of the whole Rancho development, including the 2 courses, Casa Grande, Alberca Grande, etc. If you'll recall the original logo of Rancho (the devil holding a golf club), it was my father who created that.
My job the first two summers I worked was on the golf course greens crew at VICC. My brother and I have a lot of great memories of playing golf at VICC and Rancho.

Duckhook said:

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RGV AG said:

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I thought I had heard that Arguelles died, which son in law died? The local attorney one? Wow, holy smokes, I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about that.

I wonder which daughter is running it now, and I have heard the same thing that the club is at odds with the town and some members. I am not as connected to the RV folks as I once was so quien sabe.

MCC has survived OK, but they are down on members as well and every so often there are rumblings of that land being sold off. But I understand it is a not an easy process. They were offered a kings ransom at the height of the South McAllen hotel and shopping boom, but old time members said NO.

The management there, as well as the board, has always been locked and cocked, but there are no homes associated with it and no tie into any development and I think that helps them greatly. The Harlingen CC also hit some hard times or something right?

Back in the day I hung out with some folks that frequented VICC quite a bit, and it seemed like a cool deal. Who knows now. I remember there was upheaval there in the 90's.

---

Tony McDermid is who passed away. He and Sergio within a day or two of each other.

HCC has had issues since they tore the clubhouse down in 2008, after Dolly, and took on too much debt to build a new clubhouse. I'm a member there and have served on the board and finance committee here and there. I could fill a whole page telling you about the trials (many) and tribulations (fewer) since 2008.

I grew up playing VICC, and then Rancho when it opened. My father's company was the architect and designer of the whole Rancho development, including the 2 courses, Casa Grande, Alberca Grande, etc. If you'll recall the original logo of Rancho (the devil holding a golf club), it was my father who created that.
My job the first two summers I worked was on the golf course greens crew at VICC. My brother and I have a lot of great memories of playing golf at VICC and Rancho.

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Interesting stuff!

I think HCC really screwed up with their re-build. No banquet space when CCs typically generate good revenue from special events. They also got screwed over recently by the Management Company GM, from what I've heard.

SPI is on their 3rd owner group, I think. Bubba Vann is involved in it in some capacity and he seems to have been able to bring outside investors into the deal. He's building out a golf community in Fort Worth now.

Quote:

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Tony McDermid is who passed away. He and Sergio within a day or two of each other.

HCC has had issues since they tore the clubhouse down in 2008, after Dolly, and took on too much debt to build a new clubhouse. I'm a member there and have served on the board and finance committee here and there. I could fill a whole page telling you about the trials (many) and tribulations (fewer) since 2008.

I grew up playing VICC, and then Rancho when it opened. My father's company was the architect and designer of the whole Rancho development, including the 2 courses, Casa Grande, Alberca Grande, etc. If you'll recall the original logo of Rancho (the devil holding a golf club), it was my father who created that.
My job the first two summers I worked was on the golf course greens crew at VICC. My brother and I have a lot of great memories of playing golf at VICC and Rancho.

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Man, I had completely forgotten about that logo, I used to have a shirt with that logo on circa the very early 90's, think I got it at a garage sale on the Island or in LV when I lived there.

VICC was a cool place, I don't think I have been there since maybe 98' or 99'. If I remember correctly VICC had a special drinks and dinner special on one of the weeknights, I want to say it was tacos and cheap beer or something like that. Hit that up a few times with a buddy. Didn't it burn down a while back?

I always thought that the course at RV was really pretty. I lived in RV for a little over a year in 98'/99', rented a house on Pizzaro street and man I wish I had bought that house but the then vieja in my life didn't want to live in that end of the valley. Loved sitting out in the back yard in the evenings there, and the course was just gorgeous as it was pretty wet during that time.

Last golf I ever played was at the LV course and it was like playing on a semi desert in a howling wind. Didn't enjoy it. I have always hoped that the LV course would do well, I guess it has. Our daughters God mother lived out there for a few years and she ended up leaving for PI, couldn't handle the cantankerous yankees according to her. But that is life in a golf community in South Texas.

The whole knockdown and rebuild of the clubhouse was a big screw up. Club borrowed all they could at the time, which didn't include enough to build it large enough to hold big events.

Current state is as you've heard. Big meeting this coming Monday for us to find out exactly what the prior management company/GM did. We kind of have an idea already, but maybe get more details then.

Club is actually doing okay though. More members now than we've had since 2008. We've gotten quite a few from Rancho over the last 2 - 3 years.

Is Shea still managing it for y'all?

carl spacklers hat said:

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Is Shea still managing it for y'all?

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Yes

What's the name of the community in Fort Worth?

Duckhook said:

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McAllen CC is the only private club in the Valley that hasn't really struggled much. They have a large membership base.

Sergio Arguelles and his son-in-law, who was essentially the GM, both passed away within a day or two of each other earlier this year. The club is in the hands of his daughter, who is apparently crossways with the town of Rancho Viejo. Lot of rumors about the future of the club and golf course.

SPI golf course has been through plenty of ownership changes since it started, but seems to have a stable group of owners now.

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We joined MCC again just this spring and yeah, it certainly seems plenty healthy.

Lots of new younger families compared to what it was like back in 2006-2008.

And the golf boom is still in full effect.

carl spacklers hat said:

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That's crazy! I guess all the carteleros who've set up shop at Cimarron don't play golf.

As far as SPI, I played there with a work associate back in late April/Early May and the greens were in fantastic shape. I can also comment on Treasure Hills CC as well. Those greens are in great shape, too, as is most of the course with the exception of #18 fairway, which is a goat path. Don't know why they can't keep it in good condition.

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Good to hear about Treasure Hills. We will go check it out one of these weekends. I really like that track but it has been in terrible shape the past few years.

Tierra Santa was our go-to before we joined MCC and we made the move just in time.

Tierra Santa completely lost their greens, burned them to a crisp and they're just now starting to come back.

I also heard that the city of Pharr is going to invest a bunch of money into Tierra Del Sol and re-do it this fall. I'll believe it when I see it. That's another of our weekend courses. I think the Asians that RGV talked about migrated to that course from Cimarron.

And man, Palmview AKA Champion Lakes sure was in great condition when I played it a couple of months ago. I think the McAllen Amateur had something to do with how nice it was looking. I wish more local courses put up ropes to keep different spots from going bare. It doesn't seem like much of an investment.

Matsui said:

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What's the name of the community in Fort Worth?

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Avanzada. Developing it with JJ Henry.

So not a golfer but have played Cimmaron and PI a time or two. Does anyone know the story on Tierra Santa in Weslaco? I almost bough a house there a few years ago. Looked like it was struggling at the time

As a golf club, I think it's always struggled. Just not enough members/revenue. The owner got tired of pumping money into it at some point and actually had to start working again as a PI attorney. They hired a superintendent in about 2015 that did a great job of getting the course back in shape and keeping it that way for a number of years, but I think he's no longer involved.

It's basically the same story as a lot of mid-tier golf courses/clubs. Not enough revenue to keep it in great shape.

Thanks Duck

PJYoung said:

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I also heard that the city of Pharr is going to invest a bunch of money into Tierra Del Sol and re-do it this fall. I'll believe it when I see it. That's another of our weekend courses.

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That has been pushed back to the spring supposedly.

Has anybody been out to Tierra Santa lately? I'm wondering how their greens are doing now.

We're playing Tony Butler tomorrow for $28 so my hopes aren't very high for how they're doing.

Everybody else seems to be hosting tournaments.

Report on Tony Butler? I played it several times in August/early September and it was about as good as can be expected from a low-budget Muni. I did break 80 on one of the rounds but it isn't terribly challenging.

Not sure what the condition at Tierra Santa is currently, haven't played there since the spring. That's a fun course so long as the greens aren't burned up.

Tony Butlers greens were punched and sanded with about 20X too much sand on most greens. 18 bizarrely wasn't touched and it had several bone dry dirt spots. The green was maybe 60% dirt. Terrible.

Yes I've heard that Tierra Santa is supposed to be great now and River Bend of all places is fantastic.

And MCC is not accepting any more members at present thanks to Cimarron closing down.

Edit: Played MCC this morning and the greens are back to FAST like they were last spring. Whoa.

I heard the plan to build homes on Cimarrons golf course failed because of drainage issues.

So now a group led by Abraham Ancer is looking to buy the club and restore the course. Of course nothing will happen until the lawsuits are settled.

What kind of lawsuits are taking place?

Also did the whole club shut down? i.e. all the club facilities and such? Or just the gold course?

Trying to build homes on that land incorporating it to the already developed area would be complicated and cumbersome. And yes that area out there has always had flooding issues.

I talked with someone today who has some knowledge of what's been going on out there. He said the Abraham Ancer rumor has been floating around for a few years. He's pretty skeptical that that would happen. Said it's going to take a lot of money to refurbish the course, on top of whatever the purchase price is.

Duckhook said:

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RGV AG said:

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I thought I had heard that Arguelles died, which son in law died? The local attorney one? Wow, holy smokes, I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about that.

I wonder which daughter is running it now, and I have heard the same thing that the club is at odds with the town and some members. I am not as connected to the RV folks as I once was so quien sabe.

MCC has survived OK, but they are down on members as well and every so often there are rumblings of that land being sold off. But I understand it is a not an easy process. They were offered a kings ransom at the height of the South McAllen hotel and shopping boom, but old time members said NO.

The management there, as well as the board, has always been locked and cocked, but there are no homes associated with it and no tie into any development and I think that helps them greatly. The Harlingen CC also hit some hard times or something right?

Back in the day I hung out with some folks that frequented VICC quite a bit, and it seemed like a cool deal. Who knows now. I remember there was upheaval there in the 90's.

---

Tony McDermid is who passed away. He and Sergio within a day or two of each other.

HCC has had issues since they tore the clubhouse down in 2008, after Dolly, and took on too much debt to build a new clubhouse. I'm a member there and have served on the board and finance committee here and there. I could fill a whole page telling you about the trials (many) and tribulations (fewer) since 2008.

I grew up playing VICC, and then Rancho when it opened. My father's company was the architect and designer of the whole Rancho development, including the 2 courses, Casa Grande, Alberca Grande, etc. If you'll recall the original logo of Rancho (the devil holding a golf club), it was my father who created that.
My job the first two summers I worked was on the golf course greens crew at VICC. My brother and I have a lot of great memories of playing golf at VICC and Rancho.

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My grandparents had a home in RV way back in the day. I think they bought it in late 70s and sold in mid 80s.

I remember loving that pool. We would go to valley in early 80s when I was little and mess around on golf course, swim at pool, got to Matamoros, Brownsville zoo, SPI, and just have a great time. My parents talked about how reasonable the price was to do anything down there.

I think the golf must have been pretty nice back then. Because my family likes golf and is members of really nice clubs in Houston and would always talk about enjoying golf at Rancho back in the day.

Yes, the courses would have still been in great condition in that time frame, and a very affordable trip.

The Fall 1976 PGA Q-school was held at Rancho and VICC. I was working in the golf shop at Rancho at the time. Ron Widby, former Cowboys punter, was the director of golf. A lot of well known golfers qualified in that event. Curtis Strange, who was one of the best college golfers at the time, failed to qualify. Which was as big of news as those who did qualify. He was kind of an arrogant, cocky guy and nobody was broken-hearted that he didn't qualify.

70's were a fun time to be around down there.