West Texas
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New pipeline planned to cut through Alpine, Marfa and Fort Davis areas

5,185 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Texan76
danw95
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AG
Thoughts on the story below? Looks like a huge pipeline is being developed to cut right between Fort Davis, Alpine and Marfa. I'm concerned about the impact to the area - we moved here for the quiet, dark skies, the big bend environment, and I don't see how this wouldn't harm that all in some way. But I'm also not an expert on oil and gas and with the open space in this part of the state, maybe the overall impact wouldn't be too bad. But my gut says this is not good news for this area.

http://www.newswest9.com/story/28203495/two-natural-gas-pipelines-headed-to-west-texas
zsh0
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I think people are blowing it a little out of proportion. It's going to run along already established transit routes (67 from Presidio to Marfa, the railroad on 90 between Marfa and Alpine, and 67/1776 up to Coyanosa). Once it is installed and underground, it will not be the eyesore that people worry about.

As for environmental and safety issues, pipelines are magnitudes safer and cleaner than rail, which would be the next best option for getting gas to Presidio.

At the end of the day, it's not going to be a significant long term impact on the area. If oil and gas were even close to economic in the area, there would already be significant production. Every once in a while, some wildcatter will drill a dry well south of Marfa or in northern Brewster county, but the only semi-consistent production in the tri-county area is a few small and old wells in Jeff Davis county closer to Pecos.

The backlash against this is just the ignorant New Marfans getting in a tizzy and dropping the "frac" word to get everyone worried about it.
danw95
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Thanks for the Info. My main concern was that the area would start to boom, being an eyesore, and light pollution.

Sounds like light pollution is still an open question but hopefully they can plan for that to minimize any impact at these stations every 20 miles. Everything else seems to be a bit overblown
Predmid
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Do you feel the area is impacted right now? Because there are already several gas supply pipelines already in place that service the area.

Once the construction is done, there will be near zero impact.
Predmid
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Not directly in the industry, but the igneous intrusions over the eons have ruined any potential O&G deposits in the area. Like the above poster said, there is near zero chance of O&G exploration down in that part of the State.
danw95
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quote:
Do you feel the area is impacted right now? Because there are already several gas supply pipelines already in place that service the area.

Once the construction is done, there will be near zero impact.
I don't know, a 42" wide pipeline is a bit different from a gas supply line. It likely would cut between Fort Davis and Alpine on the Alpine side, which I'm not thrilled about.

I went to the town meeting today, concerned landowners and residents from across the region trying to piece together what's truth vs rumor, and best steps forward. Apparently our new congressman as of last week hadn't heard about it when he was asked about it, but has set up a few meetings in the region later this month.

There's a website set up with what they know and don't know plus a link to a petition. Anyone in the area interested in learning more can go here

not in our big bend
WestTexAG
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Truly blows my mind that there are west Texans that want to get in the way of a pipeline. As has been stated already, the odds of any real lasting negative impact is virtually zero.
danw95
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well what's the pro's of having it here, what's the benefit? no tax dollars or permanent jobs to improve the community, and this only helps Mexico and one gas company. This is not for the public good to dig a 42" pipe for 100+ miles through this area. I'd rather this area be left as is
Predmid
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quote:
no permanent jobs


Someone is going to have to inspect, maintain, and operate the pipeline....
Predmid
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And each of the counties will have increased tax revenues as the pipeline counts as infrastructure improvements and the property value with the improvements will go up significantly. Somewhere on the order of a million a year for each county it passes through would be my estimation.

An approximate route from what I have gathered off of new sources:

danw95
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Thanks for the info. Hopefully the company will lay out details in a few weeks, including how it could benefit the area.
CanyonAg77
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Light pollution from any pumping stations is really the only long-term worry, and it can be mitigated. Work with your local officials, the company and McDonald Observatory. Get the 'sips involved, they have a lot of money sunk up there on the hill.
Predmid
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I'm willing to bet alpine produces more light pollution than this pipeline will.

Not to mention alpine is probably 15 miles closer than any point on the pipeline.
OilFieldIRI
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S
Does anybody know of a experienced salesman in the midland/Odessa area? O&G
tlh3842
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quote:
Truly blows my mind that there are west Texans that want to get in the way of a pipeline. As has been stated already, the odds of any real lasting negative impact is virtually zero.
danw95
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quote:
quote:
Truly blows my mind that there are west Texans that want to get in the way of a pipeline. As has been stated already, the odds of any real lasting negative impact is virtually zero.



We have another town meeting here with company representatives Wednesday night, should be interesting. Most people I talk with here think it's inevitable, but they're pissed at how it's being forced into the area when there is almost no benefit to the region from it, at least none that's been communicated to us. If there's no benefit to the region, then I'd just as soon let them dig it somewhere else.
Predmid
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Several things:

1. Unless it is your land the pipeline is crossing, why should you get a say in it?

2. You keep saying no benefit. That is false. Million plus dollars a year in tax revenues for each county the pipeline passes through after it is done. During construction, there will be a lot of people working on that pipeline. That means revenues for your cities in the forms of lodgings, food, materials, and crew entertainment in the evenings. THen when it is done, there are jobs to operate, maintain, and inspect the pipeline.

3. Since you want them to dig it elsewhere, what route exactly would you go to get from Fort Stockton to Ojinaga?
TxAg20
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quote:
I'm willing to bet alpine produces more light pollution than this pipeline will.

Not to mention alpine is probably 15 miles closer than any point on the pipeline.

And you've got those pesky Marfa lights causing light pollution too.
danw95
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quote:
Several things:

1. Unless it is your land the pipeline is crossing, why should you get a say in it?

2. You keep saying no benefit. That is false. Million plus dollars a year in tax revenues for each county the pipeline passes through after it is done. During construction, there will be a lot of people working on that pipeline. That means revenues for your cities in the forms of lodgings, food, materials, and crew entertainment in the evenings. THen when it is done, there are jobs to operate, maintain, and inspect the pipeline.

3. Since you want them to dig it elsewhere, what route exactly would you go to get from Fort Stockton to Ojinaga?
Went to the meeting tonight. Benefits would be about $4 million a year in taxes to split among 3 counties. Yes the pipeline brings jobs but most of the skilled labor will be their employees they bring in from elsewhere to stay in a nearby mancamp, plus some temporary work. So there's some positive. Company says the right things about minimal light impact and no compression stations so we have to hope they stick to that. Big negative and very concerning is its much closer to Alpine then originally thought. The company's proposed path goes from just north of the airport to just west of town (by Big Bend Brewing Co). A112 in the map below is walking distance from my home.





Predmid
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That 112 is almost quite literally on my grandfathers home.

EDIT: on second look, across the street.
danw95
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wow, small world. does your grandad have a horse named Pistol?
Predmid
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No. Not that I know of.

S. Stumberg.
danw95
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Ah ok. Don't think I know him but sounds like he lives pretty close to me.
zsh0
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Are there more of those maps online somewhere with the proposed route? My wife and I own property west of town by Paisano. I'm curious if it crosses it.
Predmid
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Steve & Julie. Julie runs the sewing shop in town.
danw95
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Pretty good summary on our city council mtg for the public to voice our concerns.



"The Alpine Special City Council meeting this earlier this evening went incredibly well (THANK YOU, ALPINE CITY COUNCIL!). There were over 100 people present at the Civic Center in spite of the odd hour (4pm on a weekday afternoon). The meeting was dedicated entirely to hearing residents concerns. 15 - 20 people lined up at the podium to state comments.

Residents of Sunny Glen spoke passionately about their immediate and future concerns (excessive truck traffic, only only one road in/out in case of emergency, etc)...but most especially WATER. The city manager was asked to comment on the sale of 100,000 gallons per day of city water to Pumpco...he said that the City of Alpine has in fact been selling water to Pumpco, but he did not have a precise figure handy...he invited those wanting an exact figure to contact his office (I believe several media present were interested in this, and expect they will follow up).

In fact, the Mayor and the Council genuinely seemed to know remarkably little about ETP's plans. They were adamant that they have NOT been contacted by the pipeline company for any reason...the Mayor repeated this several times when pressed for specifics about the exact location of the pipeline (the City is operating on an extremely rudimentary map they acquired on April 18...prior to the ETP open house when many of us first became aware of the "study corridor"), expected ad valorem tax revenue, etc. In fact, the City Council did not seem certain, from the information they have obtained, that the pipeline will pass through Brewster County (!?).

Several ranchers/land-owners spoke about their feelings that no amount of money could make the pipeline construction worth their while. Several people expressed concerns about noise, light, and air pollution from compressor stations, danger from accidents (and strain on first responders), loss of tourism revenue, and general loss of quality of life. A local hydrogeologist/Big Bend National Park employee speaking on his own behalf gave an incredibly thorough, fact-based presentation on the numerous red flags this project raises...from its presentation of itself as "intrastate" and a "public utility", to concern that the City, County, and/or landowners would be coerced to allow construction to begin without completion of appropriate permits. He spoke on the physical ways this largely well-stewarded region will be permanently damaged by the construction and ongoing presence of the pipeline. As the man walked away from the podium, he received a standing ovation.

When one speaker asked for a show of hands as to how many people in the room were in favor of the pipeline, only one gentleman seated in a far back corner raised his hand. The man did not speak to the group, and left before the end of the meeting.

Every single comment was spoken with rational, heartfelt conviction, each dovetailing into the others perfectly, and each one connecting a dot or providing a different part of the puzzle. This meeting felt like a turning point to me...the community was completely unified in our vision and our message, and I believe the City Council really heard us."
Captain Pablo
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Hope it doesn't stop traffic on 67 and kill the Marfa Lights during construction
fuzzyfan
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It is a done deal. Either smile, cooperate and get a big check or face condemnation and get what the land is really worth.
danw95
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Most of us who live here aren't here for the money. The community doesn't want it because we prefer the big bend region to remain as a quiet, remote, beautiful region. Yet this is being forced on us. And since its two billionaires with people like Rick perry in their pocket, it's frustrating as hell. Even if you can get comfortable with the idea of a pipeline in the region, I'm not happy they're putting it so close to alpine, with the equipment dump being a half mile from my home and the projected path so close to the entire town.
danw95
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quote:
It is a done deal. Either smile, cooperate and get a big check or face condemnation and get what the land is really worth.

if you don't let us plow through your land we'll just take it. Doesn't matter if your region doesn't want it, because it's not up for a vote. Murica
Predmid
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Nevermind that once the construction is done, there will be literal zero change to the "quiet atmosphere" of the region because the only compressor stations will be in ojinaga and ft. stockton...
Predmid
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And that the total land area the pipeline covers will be less than 0.001% of "big bend area".

And that it's following the major highways and rail lines for the majority of it so it's not cutting through virgin lands at all.
fuzzyfan
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quote:
if you don't let us plow through your land we'll just take it. Doesn't matter if your region doesn't want it, because it's not up for a vote. Murica
Unfortunately, this decision has been made way up the food chain. I would say way higher than Rick Perry. I guess everyone will get to piss and moan, before they get nasty and start condemning property. Imagine what Oj and Presidio could become with natural gas service, instead of propane. There is a host of manufacturing that is possible with natural gas. Plus the quality of life might improve for those that are able to get natural gas to their homes. However, we would not want to disrupt the scenic beauty of a town for the betterment of a region.
danw95
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presidio isn't going to get lines for this to use in homes anytime soon. The company says they'll have a tap for the town but the town would have to distribute it. They'd have to build the infrastructure to do that , and in a small poor town like presidio, that'll be a huge financial challenge, plus the fact that homes and appliances using propane today would need to be refitted to use natural gas.

Anyway yeah most likely going through and not much we can do but hope for it to be done as they are promising. Still frustrating as hell.
Texan76
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Will be inconvenient during construction. You won't notice it after that. The end.
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