I'm surprised that from 59 north to 45 north that stretch of beltway 8 is free. I figure right there at JFK Harris county would put a toll.

texagbeliever said:

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Aren't tollways effectively guaranteed returns for large pension funds. So every time you drive through one just think of the Union Teacher who is going to be able to afford that extra meal for her 7th cat.

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Not sure where you got that from? How the tollway funds are spent is "fairly" tightly controlled by the tollway's bond covenants. I put "fairly" in quotes because the recent HC leadership has implemented (or tried to implement) some liberal interpretations of what some of the words/definitions mean. However, even with their liberal interpretations, the toll road revenue doesn't have anything to do with a pension system.

Toll road employees are required to contribute to the TCDRS state-wide pension system, the same as any other Harris County employee. Is that what you're trying to refer to?

YellAg2004 said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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I'm surprised that from 59 north to 45 north that stretch of beltway 8 is free. I figure right there at JFK Harris county would put a toll.

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That section was built and is maintained by TxDOT, not Harris County. Hence why it's free.

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I would ask why the rest of the beltway can not be managed by TxDOT, but I just answered my own question.

Harris County politics are the worse.

While toll roads make good targets, you can't argue that the road is simply maintained at an entirely different level than the free TxDOT roads.

YellAg2004 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Aren't tollways effectively guaranteed returns for large pension funds. So every time you drive through one just think of the Union Teacher who is going to be able to afford that extra meal for her 7th cat.

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Not sure where you got that from? How the tollway funds are spent is "fairly" tightly controlled by the tollway's bond covenants. I put "fairly" in quotes because the recent HC leadership has implemented (or tried to implement) some liberal interpretations of what some of the words/definitions mean. However, even with their liberal interpretations, the toll road revenue doesn't have anything to do with a pension system.

Toll road employees are required to contribute to the TCDRS state-wide pension system, the same as any other Harris County employee. Is that what you're trying to refer to?

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The idea is that the capital used to pay for the toll road can come from large pension funds because they are flushed with cash and need guaranteed return investment opportunities in order to invest in them. The gross margin generated then goes to the pension (ie original capital loan lenders). There are probably some caps of GM and what not. The reason Toll ways are likely always kept in pristine condition is that they see capital projects as expanding the amount of margin they can return similar to how utilities work.

A utility has a max gross margin it can make on capital expenditures normally 6-8%. So naturally what does every utility company want to do, get as much capital projects approved so they can expand their Gross Margin earned. Similar thing for toll roads.

redag06 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Aren't tollways effectively guaranteed returns for large pension funds. So every time you drive through one just think of the Union Teacher who is going to be able to afford that extra meal for her 7th cat.

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Since there aren't any union teachers in Texas, do we send this money to other states with union teachers?

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Well yeah, it was a bit tongue in cheek but the idea is that pension projects provide large amounts of capital for toll roads and other utility projects. Which shapes the economic activity of our economy and is one of the big drivers of ESG but that is a completely other tangent.

texagbeliever said:

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YellAg2004 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Aren't tollways effectively guaranteed returns for large pension funds. So every time you drive through one just think of the Union Teacher who is going to be able to afford that extra meal for her 7th cat.

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Not sure where you got that from? How the tollway funds are spent is "fairly" tightly controlled by the tollway's bond covenants. I put "fairly" in quotes because the recent HC leadership has implemented (or tried to implement) some liberal interpretations of what some of the words/definitions mean. However, even with their liberal interpretations, the toll road revenue doesn't have anything to do with a pension system.

Toll road employees are required to contribute to the TCDRS state-wide pension system, the same as any other Harris County employee. Is that what you're trying to refer to?

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The idea is that the capital used to pay for the toll road can come from large pension funds because they are flushed with cash and need guaranteed return investment opportunities in order to invest in them. The gross margin generated then goes to the pension (ie original capital loan lenders). There are probably some caps of GM and what not. The reason Toll ways are likely always kept in pristine condition is that they see capital projects as expanding the amount of margin they can return similar to how utilities work.

A utility has a max gross margin it can make on capital expenditures normally 6-8%. So naturally what does every utility company want to do, get as much capital projects approved so they can expand their Gross Margin earned. Similar thing for toll roads.

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I understand your point better now. The reality is that the toll road bonds are sold on the commercial market, so any funding coming from pensions is no different than pensions buying municipal bonds, school bonds, etc. The toll road doesn't receive capital funding directly from an entity like a pension.

The debt service on the bonds is a line on the toll road budget. If toll revenue exceeds the budget, they don't pay down the debt ahead of schedule. The excess revenue just goes to the bottom line and is either distributed to the precincts as part of the annual mobility payments or is kept as cash on hand.

I don't claim to be an expert, but wouldn't the bond holders have better returns if revenues remained constant and Capex was minimal?

Where is all this extra money for investors coming from that's tied to Capex projects?

Did a bit more digging and that appears to be more accurate, this is less of a CapEx return style margin system.

Toll Road Analysis

Toll Roads are government dreams: $3MM in annual revenue per mile vs the $160k in fuel taxes/registration.

HCTR has seen a 70% increase in revenue from 2009 to 2018. These projects seem to be gold mines. Who would have thought a monopoly directed entity would be so profitable?

David Happymountain said:

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I bet Lina is making her beta trim the black nipple hair off her saggers right now.

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texagbeliever said:

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Did a bit more digging and that appears to be more accurate, this is less of a CapEx return style margin system.

Toll Road Analysis

Toll Roads are government dreams: $3MM in annual revenue per mile vs the $160k in fuel taxes/registration.

HCTR has seen a 70% increase in revenue from 2009 to 2018. These projects seem to be gold mines. Who would have thought a monopoly directed entity would be so profitable?

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If you look back in the past year, as soon as HC Commissioners Court had a majority "D", they voted to raid the excess cash and divert it to "community projects"; mainly focused in Ellis and Garcia's districts.

It is my hope our state Senator learns of this and passes a bill in the next session which limits toll road funds to paying the bonds and maintenance to stop this crap.

Toll road revenues are also being raided for funds for the Flood Resilience Trust and using the toll road system as a multimodal transportation system (bikes, trails, etc.) and other non-toll road mobility projects.

HCTRA will be beginning what is called a "Barrier Free Program" meaning they're going all electronic and removing the toll booths, but it's also more figurative language that there won't be non-physical barriers for people to use the toll road system and that the toll roads won't be barriers for neighborhoods.

Case in point is that HC Commissioners' Court is studying how the Westpark Tollway can be re-envisioned, specifically the "inequities" the toll road created through Alief and other blighted areas along the corridor.

Psycho Bunny said:

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I'm surprised that from 59 north to 45 north that stretch of beltway 8 is free. I figure right there at JFK Harris county would put a toll.

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It would be a dick move to make everyone going to the airport from 45 take 1960 or pay a toll. Will Clayton isn't too bad from 59, but anyone coming from North West would be forced to pay a toll to get there. I am sure the airport kicks something back.

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HCTRA will be beginning what is called a "Barrier Free Program" meaning they're going all electronic and removing the toll booths, but it's also more figurative language that there won't be non-physical barriers for people to use the toll road system and that the toll roads won't be barriers for neighborhoods.

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What does that mean? They won't send bills to people that drive the toll road without a functioning tag?

How do you "re-envision" a toll road without tearing it down or even eliminating the tolls?

Harris County's toll roads are aiming to be more accessible while transitioning to an all-electronic system Houston Public Media

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If you're not taking cash at this point, isn't the system essentially all-electronic right now?
It's somewhat all-electronic right now, but when we define all-electronic, it's a holistic view of how we do business as a toll road. It's really holistic in the customer experience. If you do not have an EZ Tag and you used to pay coins in the past, we really want to focus on that.

Unfortunately, if you don't have a credit card or you're unbanked, which could potentially be a large part of our population, we don't want to be punitive to that segment of our county. Until we address all these unbanked customers and the former cash payers, we're not fully there.

Because it's not just a process of removing the booths and having everyone pay through an EZ Tag or some other method, it's about making sure all residents of Harris County can be included into our toll road and participate in our toll road.

What kind of options are you considering for toll road drivers who want to pay cash?

We've done some research on options that are being offered across the country. We are starting to look at, if you can't pay cash at our toll plaza, can you pay cash at our EZ Tag stores. Our EZ Tag stores have not accepted cash traditionally so we're looking at whether you could do that at one of our storefronts.

We're looking at opening several more locations across the county. As you pay your water bill at a local pharmacy or grocery store, we're looking at how we can penetrate the county and other locations, to be a little more customer-friendly as we look at different alternatives to participate.

We're going to be very aggressive in our marketing of all the different options that we have to make sure that if you want to ride on our toll roads, we're not going to penalize you with all these fines and fees if you can't pay at the moment of transaction.

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Westpark Tollway set to be 're-envisioned': What that could mean for your commute, fees and the community (click2houston.com)

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So -- what does that actually look like?
Here's what ]Harris County Toll Road Authority could see:
"(The project may) change the toll road industry (by) partnering transit and tollway so that way everyone benefits, not just one mode or the other," Harris County Toll Road Authority Executive Director Roberto Treviño said at a news conference about the study Monday. "What's really innovative and what I really like about this project is that, historically, a toll road, the only way to control congestion is by increasing tolls. But by partnering with Metro, partnering with Fort Bend Transit, we can innovatively add capacity by partnering with transit agencies to provide great commuter service and be creative and innovative to increase throughput capacity where people can choose a different mode but still get to their destination in a good reliable time while the toll road user also benefits."

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Major Westpark Tollway study to focus on capacity, ease of access | Community Impact

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The study will address a segment of the roadway from Beltway 8 west to the Harris County-Fort Bend County line, according to a May 17 news release. The aim of the study is to ultimately create more vibrant, accessible and equitable connections between communities on both sides of the thoroughfare, the release states.

Study details: Per the release, community input will be central to the study, as will exploring best practices in urban design. A timeline and cost estimate have not yet been made. Potential options include:

• adding public art
• increasing lighting
• maximizing parking and tollway plaza spaces to make access to the tollway safer

Why it matters: Briones described the study as an opportunity to expand transportation options for the roadway that would support economic growth and improve the quality of life for residents in the area.

"We must build with the future in mind and ensure our work is sustainable, strategic, and sensiblewhile always keeping community engagement central," Briones said in the release. "By partnering with METRO, HCTRA, and the city of Houston, we are seeking the most effective way to leverage resources to better serve the community."

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Bondag said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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I'm surprised that from 59 north to 45 north that stretch of beltway 8 is free. I figure right there at JFK Harris county would put a toll.

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It would be a dick move to make everyone going to the airport from 45 take 1960 or pay a toll. Will Clayton isn't too bad from 59, but anyone coming from North West would be forced to pay a toll to get there. I am sure the airport kicks something back.

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Don't some cities still make you do this? Heck, at DFW you have to pay a toll to get to the airport just for drop off/pick up.

Won't someone think of the "unbanked"?

****ing clowns at the county

It's been a while since I've been to DFW but the whole reason those toll booths exist is to prevent people from using it as a cut through.

If you go in and out the same side within there's no charge. I believe there's also some calculation for going out the other side after an amount of time.

If you exit from the other side within a short period there's a massive charge.

When they first opened the road through the airport people were using it as a normal road to save time and jamming things up for the airport.

It's a toll road for people going straight through but not accessing the airport.

I'm not going to watch Dong's video, but I think this only applies to EZ Tag users and not others (I have NTTA TX Tag). I refused to pay EZ Tag for new tags in the past when TX Tag was free to add but now I should go back to the EZ Tag.

If you're "unbanked" I'm pretty sure you're not going to be paying for tolls, LOL. I'm surprised they haven't started handing out ride-free tags to those who are "unbanked" and political friends.

What this really tells me is that they're not spending any money on the actual freeway, not even things that will increase revenue like removing the toll boths, and instead want to blow it on Metro, "art", bike trails, and probably some kind of dumb crap like solar panels.

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I'm not going to watch Dong's video, but I think this only applies to EZ Tag users and not others (I have NTTA TX Tag). I refused to pay EZ Tag for new tags in the past when TX Tag was free to add but now I should go back to the EZ Tag.

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I switched to TxTag because when I would drive on 99 the EZ Tag system wouldn't correctly link my account to the Tx Tag charges, and so Tx Tag sent me a bill for several hundred dollars. After several phone calls with HCTRA, they told me they wouldn't do anything about it and my only option was to pay the charges, which included late fees. It didn't get fixed until I got a connection with a VP at HCTRA.

After that I switched to Tx Tag. Harris County is going downhill fast. Even if you want to be "inclusive" just go ahead and do it. The decaying 1980s toll booth infrastructure has been sitting there for years. It's slowing us all down.