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TXDOT - City of Houston Relationship - 11th Street

3,298 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 11 mo ago by Texan_Aggie
Chewy
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AG
For those of you not reading the thread on 11th Street bike lanes does anyone know or have contacts with TXDOT and how they work with the City of Houston on street development?

I'm guessing we have some Civil Engineers on here that might know the ins and outs.

A City Official at the meeting last night indicated the State controls what can be done at the Nicholson trail crossing 11th. If the State controls that do they have the ability to limit what the City can do on 11th?

Right now it feels like the City is hell bent on putting bike lanes on 11th under the guise of traffic calming.

Curious if there's any way to get TXDOT involved as I feel they have a lot more experience and information for what might happen.
spider96
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Where's Anagrammatic Nudist when you need him?
agnerd
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If TxDOT controls the crossing, it's because their funds were used to build the trail or the trail sits on their land.
TxDOT's interest in their infrastructure is limited to how it connects with City infrastructure. They don't care at all what the city does with 11th unless the project were to block the trail.
Chewy
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Thanks for that info. Based on what I know that trail is an abandoned railroad track. Not sure that would be state property.

I'm trying to make heads and tails of what the state can control/influence. The City Planner has said they're limited on what they can do there because of "state laws." He's offered to share the codes.

Last night he also said the State controls the speed limits on all roads and the City can't do anything about them. That seems really odd.

Then when he got into crash data he said the State compiles it all and the city doesn't have any. Once again odd the city doesn't have some level of crash data they use to support a project they want to do.

He also said if anyone has any good relationships with the State that would be welcomed because, "The City doesn't have the best relationship with the State right now." I infer that to mean a two year pissing contest over masks is limiting common sense to a project that can have a direct impact on residents. Wonderful. Government at its finest.

This is also the same guy that said on one project they failed to get input from emergency services. Not exactly instilling a high level of confidence.

Sounds like TXDOT won't have any jurisdiction but worth asking.
Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

The City Planner has said they're limited on what they can do there because of "state laws."
Quote:

Last night he also said the State controls the speed limits on all roads and the City can't do anything about them.
Quote:

Then when he got into crash data he said the State compiles it all and the city doesn't have any.
YellAg2004
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Chewy said:

Thanks for that info. Based on what I know that trail is an abandoned railroad track. Not sure that would be state property.

I'm trying to make heads and tails of what the state can control/influence. The City Planner has said they're limited on what they can do there because of "state laws." He's offered to share the codes.

Last night he also said the State controls the speed limits on all roads and the City can't do anything about them. That seems really odd.

Then when he got into crash data he said the State compiles it all and the city doesn't have any. Once again odd the city doesn't have some level of crash data they use to support a project they want to do.

He also said if anyone has any good relationships with the State that would be welcomed because, "The City doesn't have the best relationship with the State right now." I infer that to mean a two year pissing contest over masks is limiting common sense to a project that can have a direct impact on residents. Wonderful. Government at its finest.

This is also the same guy that said on one project they failed to get input from emergency services. Not exactly instilling a high level of confidence.

Sounds like TXDOT won't have any jurisdiction but worth asking.
I think he's likely playing semantics with you.

The state sets the design regulations which control how roads are designed, what can be done at what speeds, etc.

The same goes for crash data. Vehicular crashes are input into a state database. This centralizes the record keeping so you don't have every different county/municipality/etc. keeping their own crash data.

As far as the relationship between the city and state, I would bet in this instance it has much more to do with the conflict over the I-45 corridor (NHHIP) than with masks.

Also, while emergency services absolutely have to be coordinated with, there's a fine line between getting their input to make quality changes and getting requests/demands that are not reasonable/feasible. While all LEOs may not fit this mold, I have dealt with several that felt that because they are in their cars all day, they feel like they are more qualified to be road and bridge designers than engineers with decades of experience. Should they be asked to provide input - absolutely. Should they be the final say in the design an intersection or freeway ramp - no way.

Finally, I'll admit my ignorance to the details, but TxDOT gets some say over some projects because they include federal dollars. I haven't had enough experience in this arena to tell you which projects, what the criteria are, etc., but I'm pretty sure that's the source of some of their authority.
agnerd
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Chewy said:

Thanks for that info. Based on what I know that trail is an abandoned railroad track. Not sure that would be state property.
City planner is probably mistaken. TxDOT has a program where they will fund sidewalk improvements for cities. Railroad likely abandoned the line and the city probably took it over.
Quote:

I'm trying to make heads and tails of what the state can control/influence. The City Planner has said they're limited on what they can do there because of "state laws." He's offered to share the codes.
More likely explanation is that they don't want to involve TxDOT in "their" project. Adjusting the trail (assuming TxDOT paid for it) requires TxDOT approval. City officials often think they're above TxDOT and aren't about to stoop to having to ask TxDOT for permission to do something.
Quote:

Last night he also said the State controls the speed limits on all roads and the City can't do anything about them. That seems really odd.
City planner is again mistaken. TxDOT controls speed limits on TxDOT roads. TxDOT recently politely asked the city to change the speed limit on the I-10 frontage roads. If the City refuses, TxDOT will change the signs themselves. City controls speed limits on city roads, country controls speed limits on country roads.
Quote:

Then when he got into crash data he said the State compiles it all and the city doesn't have any. Once again odd the city doesn't have some level of crash data they use to support a project they want to do.
The city definitely has the data, but don't usually publish it for everyone to see for various reasons. City planner needs to go ask HPD and public works for the data.
Quote:

He also said if anyone has any good relationships with the State that would be welcomed because, "The City doesn't have the best relationship with the State right now." I infer that to mean a two year pissing contest over masks is limiting common sense to a project that can have a direct impact on residents. Wonderful. Government at its finest.
Nope, not mask related. TxDOT spent millions of dollars on plans and studies to move 45 to the east side of downtown. Harris County (with unofficial support from the City) is suing them. Environmental considerations didn't stick so now they filed a federal lawsuit since something like 60 minority renters and owners would be displaced by the project. So the $7 billion project has been paused by the feds.
Quote:

This is also the same guy that said on one project they failed to get input from emergency services. Not exactly instilling a high level of confidence.

Sounds like TXDOT won't have any jurisdiction but worth asking.
This planner sounds like a complete idiot. Sounds like he was making stuff up if he didn't know the answer or blaming another government agency (future mayor in the making?) Unfortunately there has been huge turnover in the City planning, public works, and engineering departments. Lot of very experienced people have been forced out in favor of young people with little experience but big ideas. Staff now has more experience building bike lanes, light rail lines, and environmentally friendly parks, but less experience in roads, utilities, and drainage.

On this project, make sure to submit all your comments and questions to the city in writing (there should be an email address or website). They will have to publish a written response instead of a junior staffer making something up for the public that might not be true. Then you pass on the inconsistencies between what was said at the meeting compared and the written responses to your city council member and turn them loose on the planning department. That will be the best way to try to get this project shut down.
Chewy
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agnerd - You have no idea how much I appreciate your feedback. This is super helpful to make heads and tails of what we're being told.

The planner has been in the position for 2 years. I don't think he's an evil person but he's very defensive and obviously pro bike lane.

I sent an email this morning to the Mayors email address, council member at large, council member, and city planner. No response yet.

They updated the Q&A on this website today which I find interesting. Still not my question submissions.

https://www.letstalkhouston.org/11th-street-bikeway?tool=qanda

This is the one that has me the most concerned:

Quote:

Why is there a turning lane only between Heights and Studewood? If there is room for a turning lane between Shepeherd and Yale I think that would be very useful to keep traffic flowing in that section as well.
PeterM asked
14 days ago
Thanks for your question. A center turn lane was considered for the portion between Shepherd and Yale, but the pavement width is not wide enough to accomodate that plus protected bikeways which are needed to make key multimodal connections. A look at traffic volumes indicate turning movements are low enough that traffic will flow without significant delays with one lane in each direction.
With Loro coming in and Sofia already there this is going to be a disaster. They're admitting there's not enough space for a turn lane which to me is DESPERATELY needed in favor of bike lanes. That's BS. Send the bikes up Heights to 14th. That stretch is gonna be a traffic nightmare with only two lanes and no turn lane.
HeightsAg
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Mark Fields is full of crap and all he does is delay, deflect or dismiss. You're telling me that if the city wants to put in a traffic light, they have to have state approval??

And can you imagine the road rage when 11th st is at a standstill because one car is trying to turn left on to the side streets? It's already bad now and will only get worse when 2 lanes goes down to 1.

I believe you had mentioned on a previous post that the opposition is looking to centralize our concerns so that we have an united front. At this point, it's the only way because clearly Mark and his bike buddies just want to ram this down our throats, pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and let the repercussions for us to deal with.

Do you know who is leading the mobilization effort? Would love to reach out to offer my support. I may not have a ton of time to dedicate to this, at least not during working hours, but I am more than happy to help financially.
TX04Aggie
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Again, why arent the using this as an opportunity to fix the Baghdad section of 11th from TC J to Hempstead. It is popular with road bikers already and ties directly into White Oak Bayou trails and it is a cratered out road with a median they could trim down to add a real bike lane.
CDUB98
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TX04Aggie said:

Again, why arent the using this as an opportunity to fix the Baghdad section of 11th from TC J to Hempstead. It is popular with road bikers already and ties directly into White Oak Bayou trails and it is a cratered out road with a median they could trim down to add a real bike lane.


Good gawd, I hate that section of road on my bike.
TX04Aggie
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It is brutal. When family or friends come to town, I barrel over all the craters and bumps for dramatic effect and they are like where the hell are we. Haha. . On weekends I see a lot of road bikes I have noticed.
CDUB98
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TX04Aggie said:

On weekends I see a lot of road bikes I have noticed.


Karbach uses it for their 30 mile ride for sure.

Other groups may also.
wessimo
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Chewy
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Driving home on 11th this evening it looks like Loro is having a soft opening. Without a left turn lane and only two lanes that area is gonna be fooked. I don't get how they don't think that area can handle just two single lanes. I'm not opposed to bike lanes but damn let's apply some common sense. We can't sacrifice two lanes of traffic right there.

I'd encourage everyone to send an email a day to the Mayor, the council members, and David Fields until they start acknowledging there's real opposition.
Sea Speed
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wessimo said:



i hate that dude and know absolutely nothing about him.
HeightsAg
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Funny because there hasn't been a recorded fatality on 11th St in the past 10 years but when you point that out, the hippies get offended and say that it's despicable that you don't want to do something until there is a fatality. How can you argue with circular logic?
BMX Bandit
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Chronicle article says Turner going forward. Apparently this was all started too late.

Construction planned to start summer 2022, so maybe 2024

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/buchanans-11th-street-bike-lane-16938432.php
CDUB98
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I'm sure Turner is getting a nice kickback from his buddy's construction firm.
Sea Speed
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this really pisses me off for yall. you have damn near every local fighting against it, the only people that want it are outsiders, the city people cant even tell you WHY they are doing it and it has already been approved. i ****ing hate politics.
Chewy
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Until I hear the fat lady singing I'm not stopping my daily emails to Turner and Co.!
springcity
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does anyone know how this happened? https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/truck-crashes-into-popular-heights-restaurant/285-31f8e379-1254-43b5-8d42-e439df5b1e6f
sts7049
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i dunno, bot, why don't you tell us how an accident from 2019 happened
Mega Lops
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Springcity =

wessimo
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After taking years to get renovated, that place is now a bakery for dogs... About the most useless retail concept I can imagine.
Texan_Aggie
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I rolled my eyes at it too especially because I was a big fan of Dacapos and wanted something similar, but people will pay stupid amounts of money for average things branded for pets, weddings, and babies. Supposedly they are doing well.
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