powerbelly said:

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walton91 said:

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Kellso said:

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riverrataggie said:

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Kellso, if the tax revenue falls short I'm sending you a bill. Bc you know they won't cut budgets elsewhere. You just gave them free light it increase taxes.

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Back in the 1920's and 30's there were San Antonio residents that were against the city passing a Bond that would secure funding for a major city project called the River Walk.

Why should taxes go up for something no one would ever use?
Who the hell would ever want to vacation in San Antonio?

Do you all remember when Victory Park was a sewage waste facility?
That area looks totally different after the city decided to fund the construction of the American Airlines Center, and develop Victory Park.

Downtown Dallas has made tremendous strides over the past 10-15 years.
10 years ago who would have thought that Downtown Dallas would have a community gathering spot (AT&T Discovery District) that would would put Sundance Square in Ft Worth to shame?

There are 5 parks (Klyde Warren Park, Carpenter Park, Pacific Plaza Park, Main Street Garden Park, West End Square, and the AT&T Discovery District) in the Dallas CBD that were not there in 2010.

Proposition A taxes visitors while making long term improvements to the city.

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I voted for this only because of the money that is desperately needed for Fair Park, which should be one of the premier parks in the country. Having said that, the convention center is such a huge waste of money and more importantly a huge waste of land it makes my head hurt. I lived downtown, near the conv ctr, and its an incredible dead spot in downtown. I've never understood sacrificing so much land and its opportunity (and its a lot) for people who don't live here. Dallas would be much better served developing that land into more residential tying it into the Cedars.

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Don't be surprised when Fair Park gets the shaft on this deal. It should have been two separate props to make sure Fair park got the proper share.

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What if....(and admittedly this is the sort of pie in the sky type of ideas that get floated at developer meetings and Dallas networking functions.......)

What if the South Dallas neighborhoods around Fair Park were gentrified into being a Gay Black neighborhood?
A neighborhood like Bishop Arts full of musicians, artists, eclectics and people comfortable around Gay People....that also happen to be a skip and a corner around a trap house.

The current crack house neighborhoods that surround Fair Park would be moved deeper down in South Dallas around one of the train stations.
This would eliminate the biggest problem that people have with Fair Park....which is the surrounding area.


I've seen plans for a deck park if 1-30 were to ever be trenched. This Deck park would connect the Fair Park area with Deep Ellum.
These are things that might not happen for another 20-30 years, but they are things that are being talked about.

Why couldn't Fair Park be a year round City Park destination like Grant Park in Chicago?
A place with World Class Museums and year round activities like concerts, sporting events and live stock shows instead of limiting all of that to one time a year in October?

Kellso said:

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powerbelly said:

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walton91 said:

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Kellso said:

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riverrataggie said:

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Kellso, if the tax revenue falls short I'm sending you a bill. Bc you know they won't cut budgets elsewhere. You just gave them free light it increase taxes.

---

Back in the 1920's and 30's there were San Antonio residents that were against the city passing a Bond that would secure funding for a major city project called the River Walk.

Why should taxes go up for something no one would ever use?
Who the hell would ever want to vacation in San Antonio?

Do you all remember when Victory Park was a sewage waste facility?
That area looks totally different after the city decided to fund the construction of the American Airlines Center, and develop Victory Park.

Downtown Dallas has made tremendous strides over the past 10-15 years.
10 years ago who would have thought that Downtown Dallas would have a community gathering spot (AT&T Discovery District) that would would put Sundance Square in Ft Worth to shame?

There are 5 parks (Klyde Warren Park, Carpenter Park, Pacific Plaza Park, Main Street Garden Park, West End Square, and the AT&T Discovery District) in the Dallas CBD that were not there in 2010.

Proposition A taxes visitors while making long term improvements to the city.

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I voted for this only because of the money that is desperately needed for Fair Park, which should be one of the premier parks in the country. Having said that, the convention center is such a huge waste of money and more importantly a huge waste of land it makes my head hurt. I lived downtown, near the conv ctr, and its an incredible dead spot in downtown. I've never understood sacrificing so much land and its opportunity (and its a lot) for people who don't live here. Dallas would be much better served developing that land into more residential tying it into the Cedars.

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Don't be surprised when Fair Park gets the shaft on this deal. It should have been two separate props to make sure Fair park got the proper share.

---

What if....(and admittedly this is the sort of pie in the sky type of ideas that get floated at developer meetings and Dallas networking functions.......)

What if the South Dallas neighborhoods around Fair Park were gentrified into being a Gay Black neighborhood?
A neighborhood like Bishop Arts full of musicians, artists, eclectics and people comfortable around Gay People....that also happen to be a skip and a corner around a trap house.

The current crack house neighborhoods that surround Fair Park would be moved deeper down in South Dallas around one of the train stations.
This would eliminate the biggest problem that people have with Fair Park....which is the surrounding area.


I've seen plans for a deck park if 1-30 were to ever be trenched. This Deck park would connect the Fair Park area with Deep Ellum.
These are things that might not happen for another 20-30 years, but they are things that are being talked about.

Why couldn't Fair Park be a year round City Park destination like Grant Park in Chicago?
A place with World Class Museums and year round activities like concerts, sporting events and live stock shows instead of limiting all of that to one time a year in October?

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There were a few folks that had this idea a council or two ago and there was some minor movement towards it and then it got ****canned by the State Fair people and supporters.

That area is basically State Fair gang territory and they aren't going to give that up. It's unfortunate considering how much acreage it occupies that is totally wasted.

Exactly right. The SFOT is the worst neighbor that South Dallas, heck, the worst neighbor the City of Dallas has ever had. Fair Park is their little kingdom and they have had their way with it for a 100 years. Just a few years ago they were shown to fabricate their numbers in order to inflate their economic impact which (spoiler) was a fraction of what they claimed. They dominate the entire park, and because the fair is what it is, its nearly impossible to keep permanent businesses there. FP has to be on the list of the greatest under-utilized assets of any city in the country and its all because of corn dogs or something

But have you had one of the corn dogs?

walton91 said:

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Exactly right. The SFOT is the worst neighbor that South Dallas, heck, the worst neighbor the City of Dallas has ever had. Fair Park is their little kingdom and they have had their way with it for a 100 years. Just a few years ago they were shown to fabricate their numbers in order to inflate their economic impact which (spoiler) was a fraction of what they claimed. They dominate the entire park, and because the fair is what it is, its nearly impossible to keep permanent businesses there. FP has to be on the list of the greatest under-utilized assets of any city in the country and its all because of corn dogs or something

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Absolutely agree. And it sucks. I used to take my team to it because they wanted to go but it's exorbitantly expensive and the one thing I enjoyed (the car show) is a shade of it's former self because most of the luxury brands stopped participating after they finally realized none of the demo that buys their vehicle's attends the state fair.

Whole thing needs to be razed and rebooted. Problem is that you also have the Cotton Bowl with Texas-OU as an anchor event and everyone around that event including many in the college football world view that event at that site as a sacred cow.

Nothing is going to change with this in our lifetime.

double aught said:

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But have you had one of the corn dogs?

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yeah, of course. Girlfriend's parents love the fair. We walk through the same buildings...in pretty much the same order...and eat the same food...in pretty much the same order every...single....year. All those buildings filled with nothing but "as seen on tv" crap merch plus hot tubs and mattresses, yup, we still walk through those because, well, we do it every year. I'm the a**hole making mental note of the general disrepair of all the buildings and bathrooms wondering why the hell we sacrifice the park year round just so I can (potentially) buy wine stoppers made of deer antlers or amazing super absorbant car drying towels

Kellso said:

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powerbelly said:

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walton91 said:

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Kellso said:

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riverrataggie said:

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Kellso, if the tax revenue falls short I'm sending you a bill. Bc you know they won't cut budgets elsewhere. You just gave them free light it increase taxes.

---

Back in the 1920's and 30's there were San Antonio residents that were against the city passing a Bond that would secure funding for a major city project called the River Walk.

Why should taxes go up for something no one would ever use?
Who the hell would ever want to vacation in San Antonio?

Do you all remember when Victory Park was a sewage waste facility?
That area looks totally different after the city decided to fund the construction of the American Airlines Center, and develop Victory Park.

Downtown Dallas has made tremendous strides over the past 10-15 years.
10 years ago who would have thought that Downtown Dallas would have a community gathering spot (AT&T Discovery District) that would would put Sundance Square in Ft Worth to shame?

There are 5 parks (Klyde Warren Park, Carpenter Park, Pacific Plaza Park, Main Street Garden Park, West End Square, and the AT&T Discovery District) in the Dallas CBD that were not there in 2010.

Proposition A taxes visitors while making long term improvements to the city.

---

I voted for this only because of the money that is desperately needed for Fair Park, which should be one of the premier parks in the country. Having said that, the convention center is such a huge waste of money and more importantly a huge waste of land it makes my head hurt. I lived downtown, near the conv ctr, and its an incredible dead spot in downtown. I've never understood sacrificing so much land and its opportunity (and its a lot) for people who don't live here. Dallas would be much better served developing that land into more residential tying it into the Cedars.

---

Don't be surprised when Fair Park gets the shaft on this deal. It should have been two separate props to make sure Fair park got the proper share.

---

What if....(and admittedly this is the sort of pie in the sky type of ideas that get floated at developer meetings and Dallas networking functions.......)

What if the South Dallas neighborhoods around Fair Park were gentrified into being a Gay Black neighborhood?
A neighborhood like Bishop Arts full of musicians, artists, eclectics and people comfortable around Gay People....that also happen to be a skip and a corner around a trap house.

The current crack house neighborhoods that surround Fair Park would be moved deeper down in South Dallas around one of the train stations.
This would eliminate the biggest problem that people have with Fair Park....which is the surrounding area.


I've seen plans for a deck park if 1-30 were to ever be trenched. This Deck park would connect the Fair Park area with Deep Ellum.
These are things that might not happen for another 20-30 years, but they are things that are being talked about.

Why couldn't Fair Park be a year round City Park destination like Grant Park in Chicago?
A place with World Class Museums and year round activities like concerts, sporting events and live stock shows instead of limiting all of that to one time a year in October?

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Dude, you have this weird boner about Chicago. Have you _been_ to Chicago? No one wants that here.

AggieBarstool said:

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Kellso said:

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powerbelly said:

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walton91 said:

---

Kellso said:

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riverrataggie said:

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Kellso, if the tax revenue falls short I'm sending you a bill. Bc you know they won't cut budgets elsewhere. You just gave them free light it increase taxes.

---

Back in the 1920's and 30's there were San Antonio residents that were against the city passing a Bond that would secure funding for a major city project called the River Walk.

Why should taxes go up for something no one would ever use?
Who the hell would ever want to vacation in San Antonio?

Do you all remember when Victory Park was a sewage waste facility?
That area looks totally different after the city decided to fund the construction of the American Airlines Center, and develop Victory Park.

Downtown Dallas has made tremendous strides over the past 10-15 years.
10 years ago who would have thought that Downtown Dallas would have a community gathering spot (AT&T Discovery District) that would would put Sundance Square in Ft Worth to shame?

There are 5 parks (Klyde Warren Park, Carpenter Park, Pacific Plaza Park, Main Street Garden Park, West End Square, and the AT&T Discovery District) in the Dallas CBD that were not there in 2010.

Proposition A taxes visitors while making long term improvements to the city.

---

I voted for this only because of the money that is desperately needed for Fair Park, which should be one of the premier parks in the country. Having said that, the convention center is such a huge waste of money and more importantly a huge waste of land it makes my head hurt. I lived downtown, near the conv ctr, and its an incredible dead spot in downtown. I've never understood sacrificing so much land and its opportunity (and its a lot) for people who don't live here. Dallas would be much better served developing that land into more residential tying it into the Cedars.

---

Don't be surprised when Fair Park gets the shaft on this deal. It should have been two separate props to make sure Fair park got the proper share.

---

What if....(and admittedly this is the sort of pie in the sky type of ideas that get floated at developer meetings and Dallas networking functions.......)

What if the South Dallas neighborhoods around Fair Park were gentrified into being a Gay Black neighborhood?
A neighborhood like Bishop Arts full of musicians, artists, eclectics and people comfortable around Gay People....that also happen to be a skip and a corner around a trap house.

The current crack house neighborhoods that surround Fair Park would be moved deeper down in South Dallas around one of the train stations.
This would eliminate the biggest problem that people have with Fair Park....which is the surrounding area.


I've seen plans for a deck park if 1-30 were to ever be trenched. This Deck park would connect the Fair Park area with Deep Ellum.
These are things that might not happen for another 20-30 years, but they are things that are being talked about.

Why couldn't Fair Park be a year round City Park destination like Grant Park in Chicago?
A place with World Class Museums and year round activities like concerts, sporting events and live stock shows instead of limiting all of that to one time a year in October?

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Dude, you have this weird boner about Chicago. Have you _been_ to Chicago? No one wants that here.

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I actually have this weird boner when I watch Texas A&M lose football games over and over again, but I digress.

powerbelly said:

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WTF are you talking about. That isn't happening and that isn't what this prop is about. No wonder you trust the city to do the right thing.

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WTF are you talking about???

Kellso said:

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powerbelly said:

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WTF are you talking about. That isn't happening and that isn't what this prop is about. No wonder you trust the city to do the right thing.

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WTF are you talking about b*tch?

You can eat a d**k

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powerbelly said:

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Kellso said:

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powerbelly said:

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WTF are you talking about. That isn't happening and that isn't what this prop is about. No wonder you trust the city to do the right thing.

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WTF are you talking about b*tch?

You can eat a d**k

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Okay man.

Unless I'm mistaken, Clay is not really involved here. He's Dallas County, Prop A involves the City of Dallas hotel occupancy tax

riverrataggie said:

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This thread got weird. Let's end it. Taxes going up. Will have to work harder so others can continue to mooch. It's the 80/20 rule. 80% of the work completed by 20% of the people. Go anywhere, this is just reality.

**** Clay Jenkins.

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Your taxes aren't going up in regards to Proposition A.
Clay Jenkins is Dallas County....Proposition A is for the City of Dallas.

Dallas will never stop having business travelers.
To quote Marlo Stanfield...."The price of the Brick is going up".

Getting business travelers to fund Proposition A was a no brainer. This is why it passed with a 70% margin.
This would be a totally different debate if sales, or property taxes were being increased to fund a convention center or public park.

double aught said:

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No, you don't understand. We haven't spent enough of other people's money on the convention center. This time it's gonna be great!

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https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2011/06/14/another-win-for-dallas-paying-off-arena-early/

I know this comment was meant to be snide and funny.....but the city of Dallas has had success with projects like this before.

The Brimer Bill was initially introduced in the late 1990's as a way for municipalities in Texas to build new facilities without directly taxing its citizens. It was introduced as a way for the city of Dallas to fund the American Airlines Center.

The vote over the AAC in 1998 only passed by something like 1,600 votes. Prop A passed 70% to 30%.

Quote:

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The Dallas Mavericks' championship could hardly be sweeter, but City Hall did manage to put a cherry on top of it Monday.

The Mavs home court at American Airlines Center should be completely paid off and owned lock, stock and barrel by the city before summer's end, Dallas chief financial officer Jeanne Chipperfield told City Council members.

The council will vote June 22 to retire $10.45 million in remaining bonds, effectively erasing debt that was originally expected to be on the books until 2028 and saving millions of dollars in interest.

That outcome was far from certain in the late 1990s, when a pitched fight over whether the city should fund construction of the arena led to the narrow approval of $140 million in bonds backed by hotel and rental-car tax receipts.

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Quote:

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The arena bonds were approved by voters in early 1998, but only by a 1,600-vote margin and only after its backers outspent opponents 20-to-1 during the campaign.


Now, 11 years later, it's clear those who backed the arena made the right choice, City Manager Mary Suhm said.
"I don't think today anybody would argue about the value of the American Airlines arena to the city of Dallas. And it's even better news when the Mavs win the championship that we get to pay off the debt on the facility early," she said.

Former council member Bob Stimson, who opposed the arena deal when it went to voters, said that hindsight has shown the city made a good decision.


"I think the American Airlines deal came out incredibly well for the city of Dallas. The developers who own the property came forward and made the investments [they promised] and a little bit more than they said they were going to make," he said.

Stimson was referring to Ross Perot Jr.'s development of Victory Park, something voters were told would be built if the arena were funded.

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Did the city reduce the hotel and rental car taxes after the AAC was paid off?

double aught said:

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Did the city reduce the hotel and rental car taxes after the AAC was paid off?

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https://arenadigest.com/201006153015/basketball/nba-basketball/dallas-to-pay-off-american-airlines-center-bonds-early

I'm honestly not sure....but these two sources said they did.

Quote:

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Thanks to tax revenues that exceeded expectations, the city of Dallas will be retiring debt on American Airlines Center more than 15 years early.

The debt some $140 million, issued in 1998 was scheduled to be paid off in 2027. However, tax revenue from hotel and car-rental taxes flowed in at a much higher rate than city officials anticipated, giving them the option to pay down early.
The city will sunset the taxes once the debt is paid

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Quote:

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In 1998, the city issued $140 million in bonds to pay its $125 million contribution to the arena's construction. The last of those bonds were scheduled to be paid off in 2027.


But higher-than-expected tax receipts over the years allowed the city to redeem the bonds much more quickly than anticipated.
When the arena was conceived, the city's plan to take a financial stake in the project was highly contentious and continues to rankle some opponents today.

But council members Monday praised the early payoff as a signal that the city made the right choice.
Dallas pledged two tax sources to pay off the bonds - a 2 percent addition to the hotel occupancy tax and a 5 percent rental car tax.

Those taxes - particularly the rental car tax - brought in more revenue than anticipated, allowing the city to redeem bonds more quickly than expected, city officials said.

Now, just $26.23 million in principal remains on the debt. Once that is paid off, the taxes pledged to the debt will no longer be assessed.

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https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2010/06/14/dallas-debt-on-american-airlines-center-could-be-paid-off-by-2011-officials-say/

Well, here's some updated plans on this boondoggle.


https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/news/local/master-plan-details-renderings-new-dallas-convention-center/287-99cb152d-2aaf-435f-b8fd-bda91d554428

double aught said:

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Well, here's some updated plans on this boondoggle.


https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/news/local/master-plan-details-renderings-new-dallas-convention-center/287-99cb152d-2aaf-435f-b8fd-bda91d554428

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And just like that… prop A requested 1.5b.

That article already says, 'The estimated total cost for the project is now eclipsing more than $3 billion. '

This one made me laugh. Especially in a recession 'The most signature space in the new center would be a 105,000-square foot ballroom, which Svedberg said would be the largest ballroom in the industry. Beneath the main ballroom would also be a 65,000-square foot ballroom, along with a main kitchen connected to it which would disperse food throughout the building'

The mob would run this town better than our elected politicians.

Yeah, I read today it's already over the original budget and going to cost more than anticipated. No one saw this coming!!!