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Round Rock ISD $1 Billion Bond Insanity

7,788 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by SteveBott
BTHOB-98
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If you're not sure what this is about, you can read about it in the community impact magazine Round Rock edition.

Round Rock ISD is going to send the largest bond package in district history to the voters in November. They are currently asking for a $998 million bond package. This is basically $1 billion. They just took a couple of off so that they wouldn't have to tell the taxpayers it was $1 billion.

This is complete ridiculousness.

Effectively position A is $798.3 million for roofing HVAC, electrical, plumbing, replacements, fresh paint, ceiling tiles, new school, buses and technology.
note: The taxpayers get asked for technology upgrades every time we are asked for a bond almost every election year

Proposition B is $125.3 million instructional technology, replacements, technology infrastructure, replacements improvements to Internet speed and connectivity

Proposition C $8.6 million fine art improvements and upgrades, including stage lighting and sound

Proposition D 65.9 million upgrading competition fields to turf, locker room upgrades construction of standalone multipurpose athletic field.

This is a crazy bond. This is a district who's had to open up the district in order to get other kids to come to the district so that they can fill chairs. There's no way we should be voting for Bond this large. My guess is that a lot of the companies that want to sell these products to Round rock are highly in favor of this. I'd like to see the maintenance records of these buildings. How can they be in that bad shape?

Mule_lx
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Spending 30 years of interest on ceiling tiles.
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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school districts are absolutely out of control. you should not be able to vote to make someone else's budget tighter.
MouthBQ98
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This is too many parents sending unprepared kids to school and too many teachers not able to reliably teach the fundamentals of any given subject all advocating throwing money at the system as compensation for lack of effort. I won't fault teachers for time, as most of them put in quite a bit during the school year. Technology can be an enabler, or a compensator or distraction for lack of competency.

The buildings are generally FAR nicer than most of the buildings I have worked in. I think we focus on that too much and not enough on the actual education process and continuous improvement measures. But OPM, right?

We educate the future generations poorly even as we settle them with vast debts to contend with.
AgGrad99
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Last time the district proposed one of these bonds (I believe it was over 700 million), they pulled a bait and switch.

They included the new HS in the bond package, when they were selling it to the voters. Then just before the election, they kept the bond package amount the same, but changed the contents, taking out the HS. At the time, I posted screen shots showing their powerpoint presentation, compared to what was ultimately in the voted-on package.

People voted, thinking they were getting one thing, only to vote for something different.

I dont understand how that's legal...and it's been done multiple times by this district. I spoke to someone who was on a committee, involved in the bond package, and she had some not-so-nice things to say about how it was handled by the district (particularly Flores).

We're talking about nearly a couple Billion dollars in the last 6-8 years. It's hard for me to fathom the necessity for that amount of infrastructure improvement.
BTHOB-98
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MouthBQ98 said:

This is too many parents sending unprepared kids to school and too many teachers not able to reliably teach the fundamentals of any given subject all advocating throwing money at the system as compensation for lack of effort. I won't fault teachers for time, as most of them put in quite a bit during the school year. Technology can be an enabler, or a compensator or distraction for lack of competency.

The buildings are generally FAR nicer than most of the buildings I have worked in. I think we focus on that too much and not enough on the actual education process and continuous improvement measures. But OPM, right?

We educate the future generations poorly even as we settle them with vast debts to contend with.


This is spot on.
Beckdiesel03
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I'm not in this district but the thing that stands out the most to me right now is asking for more busses- can they even hire enough drivers for the busses they have? I know our district can't and it's making for a disaster trying to get the kids in and out of school.
AggieOO
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BTHOB-98 said:


note: The taxpayers get asked for technology upgrades every time we are asked for a bond almost every election year


I'll address this one. Full Transparency: I do not work with RRISD. I think this bond is crazy. I live in RR and have kids in RRISD. I'm in IT Sales. I do know people who support the district from an IT vendor standpoint, so have a little insight.

For the past 12ish years I've worked with ISDs across the state, both local to the Austin area and as far out as El Paso and down to the Valley. This could get long, and maybe people don't care, but there are many very valid reasons technology upgrades are in every bond. I'm speaking in generalizations below b/c there are A LOT of ISD bonds coming up across the state, but much of this is likely a factor in RRISD.

IT in school districts, on a whole, is vastly under-funded. I'm sure there are exceptions out there like Lake Travis (I also don't work with them). When budget cuts happen, and they do often, IT is usually one of the first places hit. They are constantly being asked to do more with less. And this is all compounded by many things, including legislation. Some examples are things like HB507 a few years back, which mandated that if any parent requested surveillance in a special education room, it has to be added. But the districts weren't given additional funding for this. This isn't as simple as adding a camera to a classroom. That video has to be stored somewhere, and depending on retention policies, that storage can get expensive. Then add in the need for cameras and security at schools, on busses, etc and it adds up quickly. State and local govt struggle with this too, especially with Bodycams for the police. Or when a crime happens and they have to pull all camera data and image every phone on-site for evidence, but i digress, back to schools...

Then there's the fact that districts are on a 3-5 year tech refresh cycle, most being on a 5 year. Then understand that the government gave out a crazy amount of money in 2020 to purchase infrastructure that has now been in use for going on 5 years. These districts don't have the money to make those same purchases to replace these assets. And by year 5, a lot of technology is pretty dated. Tech moves quickly. Software vendors change requirements as they update and sometimes won't even run on older hardware. Windows is an example.

Broadcom bought VMware somewhat recently and is making life insanely difficult for everyone, but especially school districts, and state/local govt. Most schools are not utilizing a lot of the features and functionality of VMware, but the licensing structure was changed. I won't go into the full details here, but many districts are getting renewal costs of anywhere from 4x-10x of their previous annual renewal. I've seen districts get a renewal bill from VMware that is more than their entire IT budget for the year. So, kick vmware out and move to something else right? Well that costs time and money too. And most districts are already understaffed and likely have staff who don't have the same IT knowledge as corporations, because they don't pay enough for top talent. So moving off vmware costs money on the software side, but also in staff training, and potentially needing new hardware as well.

I worked with a district in west texas who couldn't refresh any of their aging hardware b/c their budgets were slashed numerous times. It got bad enough that they couldn't even pay their Microsoft renewal. And guess what? Software vendors don't care. They will stop support and sometimes turn off features/functionality without an active support contract. This gets even worse as many applications are move to as-a-service. Previously you might be able to get away with running applications without support, but with as-a-service, if you don't pay, the service gets turned off.

Then you have the fun part where schools are prime targets for cyber attacks. Putting infrastructure in place to try and prevent a cyber attack isn't simple, and its not a single solution. Cyber security is layers upon layers, and its not cheap. So you can probably imagine that most districts are not very secure. Its not a matter of if a district gets hit, its when it gets hit. And then what is the process for recovery. Sure there is insurance, but that is based on how secure your environment is. The more secure, the cheaper the insurance, which means its not cheap for IDSs. And even if you have insurance, when the school gets hit, most don't have a great recovery plan. Which means its expensive and time consuming to recover. The government can step in to help, but its not guaranteed. It can take weeks/months to recover, and if they get hit with a ransom, the advice is not to pay. Which means, you have to have a system in place to have a clean copy of data (not cheap) or rebuild the entire environment (time intensive, especially with limited staff and resources) and hope you have an older copy that is actually clean and doesn't lose too much data. Basically, its expensive all around.

I could go on and on with other examples of how districts struggle on the IT side, but these budget cuts/shortfalls eventually rear their ugly head somewhere and the IT staff gets to come to the school board and say "i told you so" regarding all the things that they tried to get funded up were denied or cut from the budget. But now the board has no choice...and there's no money. So what do they do? They throw it in a bond. And guess what happens from there. Well, now the district has funds to pay for some things that need to be done, which is good for the students and faculty. But, they conveniently forget that eventually that new infrastructure will have to be updated/refreshed/expanded in 3-5 years and no one budgets for that (or it gets cut again). So what happens? Its put in another bod, creating this vicious cycle of technology being in every bond.

Technology touches EVERYTHING in a district. Yes, these big tech companies want to sell the districts things, but its not some crazy backroom deal where its a big sham. Its great for my paycheck when districts pass these bonds, but if the district had the funds to do what they needed to in the first place, they'd be buying this stuff anyway. However, those purchases would be scheduled and rolled out over several years instead of waiting for a tipping point and buying it all at once.

Its a problem I don't really ever see being solved to be honest. As a salesperson, I'm out to make money, but I do what is best for my customers 100% of the time. I'm not a used carpet salesman. I've told customers not to buy things from me in the past, taking money out of my wallet. My customers trust me and know I have their best interest in mind, which means they keep coming back to me when they need things. That's more valuable to my paycheck than just trying to sell them things in the near-term. I only say that in an attempt to validate a lot of the above...I'm not just a sales guy trying to make a buck on ISD bonds. I love working with ISDs and seeing what they do for kids. I'd much rather them get the support they need rather than struggle and then have to HOPE a bond passes. I can't bring myself to vote for this bond, but I know the ramifications its going to have on the IT side of the house if it doesn't pass.

Sorry for rambling a bit, but maybe that provides some insight on the IT side of these bonds.
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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its crazy that budgets are slashed while expenditure only goes up. They're issuing debt to replace stuff on a 5-year life cycle? When is the debt due to be retired?
AggieOO
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Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

its crazy that budgets are slashed while expenditure only goes up. They're issuing debt to replace stuff on a 5-year life cycle? When is the debt due to be retired?
many times that stuff on a 5 year refresh is 7+ years old b/c they weren't able to refresh in year 5. And its not always hardware infrastructure (laptops, servers, etc). There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that people don't think of that have to be in place to support the front end hardware. Sometimes is something like building out a disaster recovery site. They won't need to build that building again and the power/cooling infrastructure is on a much longer refresh cycle. However, its not free to maintain or expand that, as needed. And any hardware going into that site is going to have ongoing support contracts, software licensing, etc. And moving things to the cloud is not easy for many reasons I won't go into, but there are financial implications on that piece to as cloud costs are not as predictable as the providers like to say. Sure, you know your rate, but what happens when someone throws a new application into the cloud and it start consuming resources that weren't expected? a big bill shows up. this wasn't a school district, but I had a customer where an employee put a report into AWS b/c they mandated they wanted to get rid of their on-prem infrastructure. Every time that employee hit "run" on that report, it cost the company $30K. And it was run weekly. The server it was running on costed about $15K with 5 years of support included. Sorry, rambling again.

and yes, i agree its crazy they have to use bonds/debt for this stuff, but they are left with no choice many times due to several factors. Some which are addressable by districts if they actually wanted to dig in and find the root of the problem, but some of those factors are external and they don't have any control over.
AgGrad99
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What's amazing to me though...is that private schools do it at a fraction of the cost, and sometimes/often have nicer facilities.

jah003
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Private schools pay their teachers less.

They also aren't required to provide services to 504 and SPED students. The supports necessary for those students adds up.

Also do you have data to back up the "fraction of the cost"? I mean private schools take tuition correct?
BTHOB-98
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AggieOO said:

BTHOB-98 said:


note: The taxpayers get asked for technology upgrades every time we are asked for a bond almost every election year


I'll address this one. Full Transparency: I do not work with RRISD. I think this bond is crazy. I live in RR and have kids in RRISD. I'm in IT Sales. I do know people who support the district from an IT vendor standpoint, so have a little insight.

For the past 12ish years I've worked with ISDs across the state, both local to the Austin area and as far out as El Paso and down to the Valley. This could get long, and maybe people don't care, but there are many very valid reasons technology upgrades are in every bond. I'm speaking in generalizations below b/c there are A LOT of ISD bonds coming up across the state, but much of this is likely a factor in RRISD.

IT in school districts, on a whole, is vastly under-funded. I'm sure there are exceptions out there like Lake Travis (I also don't work with them). When budget cuts happen, and they do often, IT is usually one of the first places hit. They are constantly being asked to do more with less. And this is all compounded by many things, including legislation. Some examples are things like HB507 a few years back, which mandated that if any parent requested surveillance in a special education room, it has to be added. But the districts weren't given additional funding for this. This isn't as simple as adding a camera to a classroom. That video has to be stored somewhere, and depending on retention policies, that storage can get expensive. Then add in the need for cameras and security at schools, on busses, etc and it adds up quickly. State and local govt struggle with this too, especially with Bodycams for the police. Or when a crime happens and they have to pull all camera data and image every phone on-site for evidence, but i digress, back to schools...

Then there's the fact that districts are on a 3-5 year tech refresh cycle, most being on a 5 year. Then understand that the government gave out a crazy amount of money in 2020 to purchase infrastructure that has now been in use for going on 5 years. These districts don't have the money to make those same purchases to replace these assets. And by year 5, a lot of technology is pretty dated. Tech moves quickly. Software vendors change requirements as they update and sometimes won't even run on older hardware. Windows is an example.

Broadcom bought VMware somewhat recently and is making life insanely difficult for everyone, but especially school districts, and state/local govt. Most schools are not utilizing a lot of the features and functionality of VMware, but the licensing structure was changed. I won't go into the full details here, but many districts are getting renewal costs of anywhere from 4x-10x of their previous annual renewal. I've seen districts get a renewal bill from VMware that is more than their entire IT budget for the year. So, kick vmware out and move to something else right? Well that costs time and money too. And most districts are already understaffed and likely have staff who don't have the same IT knowledge as corporations, because they don't pay enough for top talent. So moving off vmware costs money on the software side, but also in staff training, and potentially needing new hardware as well.

I worked with a district in west texas who couldn't refresh any of their aging hardware b/c their budgets were slashed numerous times. It got bad enough that they couldn't even pay their Microsoft renewal. And guess what? Software vendors don't care. They will stop support and sometimes turn off features/functionality without an active support contract. This gets even worse as many applications are move to as-a-service. Previously you might be able to get away with running applications without support, but with as-a-service, if you don't pay, the service gets turned off.

Then you have the fun part where schools are prime targets for cyber attacks. Putting infrastructure in place to try and prevent a cyber attack isn't simple, and its not a single solution. Cyber security is layers upon layers, and its not cheap. So you can probably imagine that most districts are not very secure. Its not a matter of if a district gets hit, its when it gets hit. And then what is the process for recovery. Sure there is insurance, but that is based on how secure your environment is. The more secure, the cheaper the insurance, which means its not cheap for IDSs. And even if you have insurance, when the school gets hit, most don't have a great recovery plan. Which means its expensive and time consuming to recover. The government can step in to help, but its not guaranteed. It can take weeks/months to recover, and if they get hit with a ransom, the advice is not to pay. Which means, you have to have a system in place to have a clean copy of data (not cheap) or rebuild the entire environment (time intensive, especially with limited staff and resources) and hope you have an older copy that is actually clean and doesn't lose too much data. Basically, its expensive all around.

I could go on and on with other examples of how districts struggle on the IT side, but these budget cuts/shortfalls eventually rear their ugly head somewhere and the IT staff gets to come to the school board and say "i told you so" regarding all the things that they tried to get funded up were denied or cut from the budget. But now the board has no choice...and there's no money. So what do they do? They throw it in a bond. And guess what happens from there. Well, now the district has funds to pay for some things that need to be done, which is good for the students and faculty. But, they conveniently forget that eventually that new infrastructure will have to be updated/refreshed/expanded in 3-5 years and no one budgets for that (or it gets cut again). So what happens? Its put in another bod, creating this vicious cycle of technology being in every bond.

Technology touches EVERYTHING in a district. Yes, these big tech companies want to sell the districts things, but its not some crazy backroom deal where its a big sham. Its great for my paycheck when districts pass these bonds, but if the district had the funds to do what they needed to in the first place, they'd be buying this stuff anyway. However, those purchases would be scheduled and rolled out over several years instead of waiting for a tipping point and buying it all at once.

Its a problem I don't really ever see being solved to be honest. As a salesperson, I'm out to make money, but I do what is best for my customers 100% of the time. I'm not a used carpet salesman. I've told customers not to buy things from me in the past, taking money out of my wallet. My customers trust me and know I have their best interest in mind, which means they keep coming back to me when they need things. That's more valuable to my paycheck than just trying to sell them things in the near-term. I only say that in an attempt to validate a lot of the above...I'm not just a sales guy trying to make a buck on ISD bonds. I love working with ISDs and seeing what they do for kids. I'd much rather them get the support they need rather than struggle and then have to HOPE a bond passes. I can't bring myself to vote for this bond, but I know the ramifications its going to have on the IT side of the house if it doesn't pass.

Sorry for rambling a bit, but maybe that provides some insight on the IT side of these bonds.



I will argue that the education that kids are getting at Round Rock ISD with all the technology is worse than the education I got in AISD in the 90s. Technology is great as long as it helps with the growth of our students but honestly, we're missing out by not having books in the classrooms in my opinion. My wife is a math teacher in Round Rock ISD for many many years and then they went to a technology base system and stopped using books It made it much much harder for her to do her job and teach kids how to do math.
AgGrad99
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jah003 said:

Private schools pay their teachers less.

They also aren't required to provide services to 504 and SPED students. The supports necessary for those students adds up.

Also do you have data to back up the "fraction of the cost"? I mean private schools take tuition correct?


Just look at the difference in cost per child. And while I realize there are pros and cons to both options...over 1.5 billion is quite the delta (on top of the existing tax income).

Our kids went through public schools, though if we were starting over again, we'd do something different.
AggieOO
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there's a lot more to technology and what is supporting the kids and faculty than what you directly see in the classroom. There's so much to IT that people don't even realize. Many times people think IT and see laptops and internet. That's the tip of the spear...the tiniest tip of that spear.

Most of what i'm talking about has nothing to do with laptops/desktops/labs/etc. I recently changed roles and that now falls under me, but 99% of my career has been dealing with stuff people never see or think about.
discobrob
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The schools my kids go to need updates and repairs now. They are old and dumpy. It should be budgeted for. They have complained that the state didn't give them enough money. So the plan to balance the budget is push maintenance repairs off to the voters. At least that's what it looks like.
CapCity12thMan
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Such as what
jah003
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The state of Texas also hasn't increased per student funding since 2019. So all schools are still working in 2019 dollars. No adjustment for inflation, no nothing.
SteveBott
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As always there are two sides of this story. The biggest side note is that this is the first bond in 6 years. That is a relatively long time to reinvest in our infrastructure. Also note the almost 50 million reduction in contributions from the state and another 20 million we now have to pay the state in Robin Hood taxes.

https://communityimpact.com/austin/round-rock/education/2024/09/06/round-rock-isd-to-send-largest-bond-package-in-district-history-to-voters/
LostInLA07
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I would love for someone to do a honest study on the ROI (from the standpoint of improving educational outcomes and/or reducing overall cost of education) for all of this technology use in schools.
MouthBQ98
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Reminds me of engineering calculus.

I could hammer out a solution on paper and graph it in graph paper by hand in 20 minutes but no, we had to go to math lab and use MAPLE and waste an hour trying to use that clunky program for the sake of justifying the technology investment. I hated that lab. Not all technology issues are like that of course but sometimes the learning interface portion can be a hindrance.

The data management back end is pretty much necessary though and does have to be kept current.
discobrob
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my kids hate their chromebooks. They would prefer paper assignments. I have heard that teachers are allotted one ream of paper per month. And in some schools, no copy paper is provided. Teachers have to bring their own or use chromebooks for assignments.
Ferg
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The City of Round Rock passed two bonds last year. $44M for Public Safety (including multiple firehouses), and $230M for Parks and Recreation. $230M, these people are insane.
dsvogel05
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Has anything been said about the estimated increase in taxes from the proposed bonds?
SteveBott
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The article touches on tax rate, it lowers by .01c it does not address total value
jah003
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Chromebooks do suck.

All districts have a copy center and printing there is much cheaper. So I'm sure schools are discouraging teachers from printing on campus because it much more expensive.

Education is a pendulum… it will swing back and forth forever. Many grades and subject areas are swinging back to more hands on, paper, and collaborative type learning.
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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all in, kids in Texas are funded at around $15k per student including i&s (yes, i understand how averages work, alot of kids are below that number). Could you educate a child with $15k/year? Could you educate a classroom of 20 with $300K/year when only 60-80 goes to the teacher? I don't even necessarily blame the districts, though alot of them are run horrendously bad, just the model of public education in the US is antiquated and they're essentially trying to install a combustion engine into a horse and buggy situation. Way too much is tied up on non-educational expenses and programs that don't get results.

Anyway, this will pass, as most bonds do, because only teachers union stooges will show up to vote.
SteveBott
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I'm not a union stooge. I will vote. My kids are well past public education so I'm just a taxpayer now. I'm not sure what I'll do yet but I will vote.
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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whats actually likely happening: the state is compressing the districts M&O rate an the districts are increasing I&S rate to grab that tax relief before it actually gets to tax payers. They're just gobbling up the money the legislature is using to pay down property taxes. They get more money, your tax levy stays about the same when it should be decreasing.
jah003
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Teachers unions in Texas are essentially illegal.
CapCity12thMan
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Quote:

Chromebooks do suck.


Why?
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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jah003 said:

Teachers unions in Texas are essentially illegal.
Why would you post with such certainty when you just don't know?
SteveBott
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Texas has an association of teachers not a union. The footnote in the AFT does not work but that is what it links. The TSTA functions like a union but is not a formal one. They cannot strike. But they can coordinate a sick day.

https://www.tsta.org
Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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SteveBott said:

Texas has an association of teachers not a union. The footnote in the AFT does not work but that is what it links. The TSTA functions like a union but is not a formal one. They cannot strike. But they can coordinate a sick day.

https://www.tsta.org
Their website: "Texas AFT is a statewide union".
You: they're just an association.

A union that cant strike is just a union that cant strike. TSTA is a completely different organization than AFT. AFT is a national teachers union affiliated with AFLCIO and their texas arm is called Texas AFT. Teachers in texas pay them dues. They get candidates elected. They run most school boards.
SteveBott
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I have 3-4 friends that are teachers and they emphatically state they do not belong to a union.
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