Because I'd like to know if he thinks it's an issue of skin color, because like I pointed out in my response I don't believe it is, but the post was ambiguous as to which culture he was referring
Shooting on east 6th
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Last: 3 yr ago by Furlock Bones
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Keeper of The Spirits said:
Because I'd like to know if he thinks it's an issue of skin color, because like I pointed out in my response I don't believe it is, but the post was ambiguous as to which culture he was referring
Gotcha. Just to be clear, it's not an issue of their color making them that way. That would be pretty blatantly racist. But they strongly identify as a group and keep strong social bonds (which is admirable). That causes a culture to form. I think it's ok to say "this isn't working well."
Well one of the suspects is a juvenile and a victim died this afternoon.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/breaking-25-year-old-man-killed-in-downtown-austin-mass-shooting/
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/breaking-25-year-old-man-killed-in-downtown-austin-mass-shooting/
So are we allowed to ask where said juvenile's parents were, and to opine that allowing a juvenile to be running around the bar district, at 1 in the morning, carrying a gun (which, since juveniles can't get an LTC, would be a crime all by itself, even before he started shooting)?
No sir. When a cop shoots a thug, it's the cop's fault. When a thug shoots someone, it's the gun's fault, at least according to your mayor.Langenator said:
So are we allowed to ask where said juvenile's parents were, and to opine that allowing a juvenile to be running around the bar district, at 1 in the morning, carrying a gun (which, since juveniles can't get an LTC, would be a crime all by itself, even before he started shooting)?
Gun control works - Chicago is a case in point.
LOL.
LOL.
Second suspect arrested. Also a juvenile
https://www.kvue.com/mobile/article/news/crime/second-suspect-arrested-in-austin-mass-shooting-on-sixth-street/269-a9daf05c-197a-46c4-961e-10716406e78f
https://www.kvue.com/mobile/article/news/crime/second-suspect-arrested-in-austin-mass-shooting-on-sixth-street/269-a9daf05c-197a-46c4-961e-10716406e78f
It's not his fault that he can't behave,
Society made him go astray.
Perhaps if we're nice he'll go away...
No one wants to admit it or talk about the facts as of today, but gun violence and homicides by the black population, and specifically younger black men, is absolutely staggering versus any other demographic.
The black population in general is only 18% of the USA yet half of 55% of gun related murders.
What's crazy is the % of most other crimes, while higher, are almost locked in at ~2:1 with the rest of the population: robbery, simple assault. Not DUIs though: apparently Caucasian people love to drink and drive.
https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2
I don't think this is only a socioeconomic factor. Many have long argued it is also about father figures being around and setting kids (boys) straight while young.
The black population in general is only 18% of the USA yet half of 55% of gun related murders.
What's crazy is the % of most other crimes, while higher, are almost locked in at ~2:1 with the rest of the population: robbery, simple assault. Not DUIs though: apparently Caucasian people love to drink and drive.
https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2
I don't think this is only a socioeconomic factor. Many have long argued it is also about father figures being around and setting kids (boys) straight while young.
He's 17. He's an adult, not a juvenile.SteveBott said:
Second suspect arrested. Also a juvenile
https://www.kvue.com/mobile/article/news/crime/second-suspect-arrested-in-austin-mass-shooting-on-sixth-street/269-a9daf05c-197a-46c4-961e-10716406e78f
I have no idea why a couple of posters goal tend for the problems Austin is facing. Yes shootings on 6th have become a regular occurrence at least since I moved here.
But it's only on dirty 6th everybody knows not to go there.....
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I don't believe anyone is "goal tending" rather trying to discuss real solutions to problems the city (that some of us actually live in) face rather than just making broad negative statement that don't add any value to the discussion.
The challenge when you simply say black is, its not descriptive enough to capture meaning. When you say black, that could mean someone who traces their ancestry back to slavery or someone who recently immigrated from a Caribbean nation among many others. All of these communities are different and often very different in terms of customs, traditions, values and religion.
Since 1975, the percentage of Non Hispanic White's in poverty hovers between 7 and 10%. While Black people in poverty range from 19% (2019) to 35% (1983). More simply put, a Black person is on average 1.8% more likely to be in poverty than a white person. That multiplier increases in populations over 65. The level reached the lowest at the end of the Trump presidency at 18.8%.
I'd imagine the gun crime statistics breakout along a more normal distribution when you apply a few filters to the category of black including:
The poor are in general are less educated and often commit more crimes. The poor are also more likely to be convicted of a crime than their more well off counterparts, due to the quality of representation and lack of political clout.
Race however does play a significant role in wrongful convictions, based on actual exonerations alone,:
One of the reasons is generalizations like those made on this thread are dangerous. They lead to eyewitness misidentification in cross-racial crime and leads officers who believe the same to focus more on black populations whether their intent is racist or not. This leads to more stops and more arrests than their white counterparts.
Finally, I understand the city scares many of you because it is "unsafe" but in reality we live in the 11st safest city over 400,000 people in the US in the safest time in recorded history. Austin ranks much high than Houston, Dallas or San Antonio and better than many smaller cities. So while it is a problem to solve it isn't a war zone by any stretch of the imagination.
The challenge when you simply say black is, its not descriptive enough to capture meaning. When you say black, that could mean someone who traces their ancestry back to slavery or someone who recently immigrated from a Caribbean nation among many others. All of these communities are different and often very different in terms of customs, traditions, values and religion.
Since 1975, the percentage of Non Hispanic White's in poverty hovers between 7 and 10%. While Black people in poverty range from 19% (2019) to 35% (1983). More simply put, a Black person is on average 1.8% more likely to be in poverty than a white person. That multiplier increases in populations over 65. The level reached the lowest at the end of the Trump presidency at 18.8%.
I'd imagine the gun crime statistics breakout along a more normal distribution when you apply a few filters to the category of black including:
- Nation of origin
- Length of time family has been in the United States
- Socioeconomic status
The poor are in general are less educated and often commit more crimes. The poor are also more likely to be convicted of a crime than their more well off counterparts, due to the quality of representation and lack of political clout.
Race however does play a significant role in wrongful convictions, based on actual exonerations alone,:
- innocent black people are about seven times more likely to be convicted of murder than innocent white people.
- a black prisoner serving time for sexual assault is three and-a-half times more likely to be innocent than a white sexual assault convict
- African Americans are about five times as likely to go to prison for drug possession as whitesand judging from exonerations, innocent black people are about 12 times more likely to be convicted of drug crimes than innocent white people, even though usage rates are the same
- Most innocent defendants who have been exonerated in the United States in the past 28 years are African Americansalmost half of the individual exonerations that we know about
One of the reasons is generalizations like those made on this thread are dangerous. They lead to eyewitness misidentification in cross-racial crime and leads officers who believe the same to focus more on black populations whether their intent is racist or not. This leads to more stops and more arrests than their white counterparts.
Finally, I understand the city scares many of you because it is "unsafe" but in reality we live in the 11st safest city over 400,000 people in the US in the safest time in recorded history. Austin ranks much high than Houston, Dallas or San Antonio and better than many smaller cities. So while it is a problem to solve it isn't a war zone by any stretch of the imagination.
I think more police is needed, but the liberals will continue passing policies that enable father absence, poverty, and crime.
Lol ...
I'm white.
If I commit a crime nobody will say hey slow down is that guy from Wales, or his ancestry of German descent, or could he perhaps just have immigrated from Scandinavia?
I'm white. That's it.
Works the other way too. APD doesn't have time to try and figure descent, how do they identify, or possible immigration origin. The Statesman shouldn't either.
Was it a white guy or black guy? That's the question.
We know all the stats you listed about blacks regarding poverty, crime, and prison and that is discouraging.
Scared of Austin? No just sad to see the direction since moving here in '95.
I'm white.
If I commit a crime nobody will say hey slow down is that guy from Wales, or his ancestry of German descent, or could he perhaps just have immigrated from Scandinavia?
I'm white. That's it.
Works the other way too. APD doesn't have time to try and figure descent, how do they identify, or possible immigration origin. The Statesman shouldn't either.
Was it a white guy or black guy? That's the question.
We know all the stats you listed about blacks regarding poverty, crime, and prison and that is discouraging.
Scared of Austin? No just sad to see the direction since moving here in '95.
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Agree that more police, more support and more resources for the police in the form of better training, higher pay and public input are certainly great places to start.
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Nobody asked the question who did this crime and no one asserted that white people commit more crimes. If that were the case then more analysis into you lineage might be worthy of discussion. Several posters did say that black people commit crimes. I was simply providing facts that explained many of the data points provided on crime. I agree that the suspect's information should be reported on regardless of race, religion, or creed.
If it's not fear, then what is your motivator? If you think this is an issue of black culture or just skin color that leads to violence, what do you suggest be done about it?
If it's not fear, then what is your motivator? If you think this is an issue of black culture or just skin color that leads to violence, what do you suggest be done about it?
When putting out a description of a criminal suspect, race is a physical descriptor, just like sex, height, build, hair color/style, apparent age, etc. Also clothing, although that becomes less useful the further you get from the incident in time.
As long as the suspect is at large, it's relevant to finding them. If (and I"m just making up a number) blacks are 10% of the population of the relevant area, then just the description "black male" reduces your suspect pool by about 95%. Adding "skinny with dreadlocks" reduces it even further. (The first suspect arrested was, from what I've read, a skinny black male with dreads. Go figure.)
Once the suspect is apprehended, it becomes of interest mostly to the commentariat, and possibly to figuring out the reason "why." (Example: if a Middle Eastern guy throw Molotov cocktails at a synagogue while shouting "Allah Akbar!", then race/ethnicity/nationality and religion might just be relevant.)
As long as the suspect is at large, it's relevant to finding them. If (and I"m just making up a number) blacks are 10% of the population of the relevant area, then just the description "black male" reduces your suspect pool by about 95%. Adding "skinny with dreadlocks" reduces it even further. (The first suspect arrested was, from what I've read, a skinny black male with dreads. Go figure.)
Once the suspect is apprehended, it becomes of interest mostly to the commentariat, and possibly to figuring out the reason "why." (Example: if a Middle Eastern guy throw Molotov cocktails at a synagogue while shouting "Allah Akbar!", then race/ethnicity/nationality and religion might just be relevant.)
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Absolutely, no one is arguing that race should not be included in the suspects description. The race discussion began because another poster opined the shooting had something to do with race
Keeper of The Spirits said:
Agree that more police, more support and more resources for the police in the form of better training, higher pay and public input are certainly great places to start.
In terms of Austin the direction is less police, defund them, give them less support, and by training that always leads to it being harder for them to do their job. Plenty of public input though to be had it's just not the good kind.
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Agreed on most points, good thread on this topic below.
Training often makes jobs more difficult in that new steps and procedures are added that long term are good for the organization. Knowing the community you police, better yet being part of that community, understanding deescalation techniques, being able to critically evaluate your biases to know which are valid and which are not in high stress situations are all good things, However as we add more responsibility to our officers they deserve better pay.
The thought of defunding the police is crazy and have been vocal about that with my rep, however I am not opposed to reform and oversight
Training often makes jobs more difficult in that new steps and procedures are added that long term are good for the organization. Knowing the community you police, better yet being part of that community, understanding deescalation techniques, being able to critically evaluate your biases to know which are valid and which are not in high stress situations are all good things, However as we add more responsibility to our officers they deserve better pay.
The thought of defunding the police is crazy and have been vocal about that with my rep, however I am not opposed to reform and oversight
nm
My pronouns are AFUERA/AHORA!
Quote:
The challenge when you simply say black is, its not descriptive enough to capture meaning. When you say black, that could mean someone who traces their ancestry back to slavery or someone who recently immigrated from a Caribbean nation among many others. All of these communities are different and often very different in terms of customs, traditions, values and religion.
I think you are making this way more complicated to accomplish...I'm not sure what. The FBI tracks crime stats and breaks down a lot of info into male, female (they may not have cisgender yet), black, white, Hispanic.
I can send a request for them to please specify Carribean vs nigerian vs african-american, but I'm not sure they are incredibly motivated to do this.
Young black men in America commit a disproportionate amount of gun violence in society. You can put *** or whatever as you see fit.
Quote:
The poor are in general are less educated and often commit more crimes. The poor are also more likely to be convicted of a crime than their more well off counterparts, due to the quality of representation and lack of political clout.
I thought about this some. I don't think you can hand every person who is poor, $1M, and expect an overnight change in these stats, but maybe I'm wrong.
Is there something to this? Maybe. Okay. No clue how to fix that.
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The comment on nation of origin is meant to say that people with black skin are different front each other, so saying blacks commit more crime is a dangerous assertion that leads to profiling and discrimination against all blacks. Unless you are saying the commit crimes because they are black. Historically blacks have had less access to good education and thus less opportunities for social advancement.I am not handing saying handing the poor 1M would change anything, but what can help is:
1. Access to affordable child care
2. Raising wages through statute or otherwise
3. Continuing support of education and improving the quality of education in low income areas
As far as children out of a coupled relationship, the primary causes are low education, decreased access to or affordability of birth control not being able to afford the children once they have them or financial incentives to be single (poorly designed social welfare programs), this once again tracks to socioeconomic status, not race.
Finally, improve the quality of our public defenders, pay them on par with their peers and give them a manageable work load. I have seen first hand what happens to kids with a public defender vs a paid attorney. I watched two kids both 15, get rung up on theft of a firearm charges. Kid 1 with well off parents gets community service and a misdemeanor, kid 2 with the public defender get a year in jail, 2 years of probation and $10,000 plus in fines. Kid 1 is a thriving professional now, kid 2 served his time, but couldn't get a job that could pay his probation fees, with his felony, therefore couldn't pay his probation and ended up back in the clink for failure to pay his fines and when he got out at 18 had institutionalized life skills which left him very unprepared for life outside. He has spent the last 15 years in and out of jail, work and rehab
Then back to my original premise, what can we do about:
1. Support organizations who help the poor (as a Christian this is my responsibility) some good one I like: United Way, Enterprise Community Partners, Inc., Ministry with Community)
2. Volunteer with local organizations (I like Big Brothers/Big Sisters)
3. Support organizations that provide birth control and family planning (unfortunately planned parenthood is a major provider of these service in addition to abortion which is a deal breaker for most)
4. Support organizations that identify non college opportunities (Mike Rowe foundation is great)
5. Lobby your reps as much as possible
1. Access to affordable child care
2. Raising wages through statute or otherwise
3. Continuing support of education and improving the quality of education in low income areas
As far as children out of a coupled relationship, the primary causes are low education, decreased access to or affordability of birth control not being able to afford the children once they have them or financial incentives to be single (poorly designed social welfare programs), this once again tracks to socioeconomic status, not race.
Finally, improve the quality of our public defenders, pay them on par with their peers and give them a manageable work load. I have seen first hand what happens to kids with a public defender vs a paid attorney. I watched two kids both 15, get rung up on theft of a firearm charges. Kid 1 with well off parents gets community service and a misdemeanor, kid 2 with the public defender get a year in jail, 2 years of probation and $10,000 plus in fines. Kid 1 is a thriving professional now, kid 2 served his time, but couldn't get a job that could pay his probation fees, with his felony, therefore couldn't pay his probation and ended up back in the clink for failure to pay his fines and when he got out at 18 had institutionalized life skills which left him very unprepared for life outside. He has spent the last 15 years in and out of jail, work and rehab
Then back to my original premise, what can we do about:
1. Support organizations who help the poor (as a Christian this is my responsibility) some good one I like: United Way, Enterprise Community Partners, Inc., Ministry with Community)
2. Volunteer with local organizations (I like Big Brothers/Big Sisters)
3. Support organizations that provide birth control and family planning (unfortunately planned parenthood is a major provider of these service in addition to abortion which is a deal breaker for most)
4. Support organizations that identify non college opportunities (Mike Rowe foundation is great)
5. Lobby your reps as much as possible
Shoot 'em both in their junk and walk away.
I'm sorry, but this is just BS. Birth control has NEVER been more accessible or affordable. The pill is basically free to those who can't afford it, and condoms are available for about 50 cents at every convenience store in the country, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. This is an excuse, and a lame one at that.Keeper of The Spirits said:
As far as children out of a coupled relationship, the primary causes are low education, decreased access to or affordability of birth control not being able to afford the children once they have them or financial incentives to be single (poorly designed social welfare programs), this once again tracks to socioeconomic status, not race.
New news...seems this was a personal dispute between the two punks. Went all Grand Theft Auto on each other and let bullets fly hitting the innocent bystanders. Unfortunately doesn't sound like they hit each other in the head, which would have been convenient.
AAS Story
AAS Story
Sounds like the shooters didn't manage to hit each other at all.
According to the story on KXAN, the police only recovered 8 expended cartridge casings at the scene, all believed to be from the same gun. Which means there was only one shooter, who managed to shoot 14 people with 8 shots (entirely possible in a crowded area due to rounds going clean through, especially if not shooting hollowpoint rounds), or that the second shooter had a revolver, and took his brass with him when he fled the scene.
It sounds from the AAS story that at least one of the shooters (the juvenile) might try to claim self defense. Problem with that (for him) is that only works for any bullets that actually hit the person who was attacking you.
Has anyone seen, read, or heard if the police have recovered the gun or guns involved?
According to the story on KXAN, the police only recovered 8 expended cartridge casings at the scene, all believed to be from the same gun. Which means there was only one shooter, who managed to shoot 14 people with 8 shots (entirely possible in a crowded area due to rounds going clean through, especially if not shooting hollowpoint rounds), or that the second shooter had a revolver, and took his brass with him when he fled the scene.
It sounds from the AAS story that at least one of the shooters (the juvenile) might try to claim self defense. Problem with that (for him) is that only works for any bullets that actually hit the person who was attacking you.
Has anyone seen, read, or heard if the police have recovered the gun or guns involved?
There's literally nothing about Austin that scares me. I lived downtown for 1.5 years and in south Austin until the end of last year. We moved because we got acreage and a view of the lake.
I lived in Houston for the majority or my life. My first house was in a place you likely would not step foot in. But I loved it.
The problem you seem to have trouble comprehending is that Austin in comparison to Houston or Dallas is "safe". However it is trending the wrong way fast and much of that trend can be attributed to how this city is being run. There are those of us that would like to see the problems dealt with before it gets worse.
I lived in Houston for the majority or my life. My first house was in a place you likely would not step foot in. But I loved it.
The problem you seem to have trouble comprehending is that Austin in comparison to Houston or Dallas is "safe". However it is trending the wrong way fast and much of that trend can be attributed to how this city is being run. There are those of us that would like to see the problems dealt with before it gets worse.
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Then what are you solutions other than endless complaining on a message board. Those are what I am trying to get to, rather than just the teeth gnashing and hand wringing about the politicians who literally no one likes.
My first place in Dallas was likely similar to your place in Houston. We were active in that community and helped it transition, which is why I am so interested in making positive change.
Also, Furlock, I took a few minutes to review your postings on different boards and will say you and I agree on many issues so thats why I continue to engage as I think we can come to good solutions.
My first place in Dallas was likely similar to your place in Houston. We were active in that community and helped it transition, which is why I am so interested in making positive change.
Also, Furlock, I took a few minutes to review your postings on different boards and will say you and I agree on many issues so thats why I continue to engage as I think we can come to good solutions.
Two guys in Killeen have a beef and start shooting at each there, and then bring it to 6th Street in Austin with a bunch of their buddies. There's not an Austin solution to this. It's a nation-wide problem.
You can either have much more severe penalties and enforcement for gun related crimes and more police to patrol these higher risk areas, or you can live with what we have and wonder why it never gets any better? Better yet, send out some social workers during these gunfights and see how well they get things under control! But yeah, defunding the mean ass police will really help solve things. Anything that results in less boots on the ground for LEOs, or less training for the ones we have, is just a waste of time. Austin has been statistically underpoliced for at least 20 years, compared to other cities this size. If you aren't comparing it to other places with the same size, your comparison is not for crap. Guess what? New York City has more crime than Dallas. Damn....I wonder why?
I cannot even see how that would be logical to a 3rd grader.
It's almost like thinking more gun control would solve this. Both suspects wer not legally allowed to possess a pistol in the State of Texas. Damn....did they not read the laws before they headed to 6th street? Cmon....everyone follows those sacred gun laws....that's why we have to pass more......it makes things so damn safe! The only thing that will make crime less over time, IMHO, is to be tougher on enforcing it, which is very laughable in Travis County anyway, and having more police in an area to deter it. But none of that is popular. So keep your popular stuff that seems to be working great! I think the probability of getting shot or stabbed is higher in the 6th street district than in most other parts of town. I have heard of lots of crimes in the area over my 45+ years of living here. Maybe that is anecdotal, and I am sure the bar owners down there would certainly not want any actual facts or statistics about that published. But, you know, the show must go on, and people have to have somewhere to get drunk and act stupid. That's the place, in Austin.
My solution, spend taxpayer dollars on real infrastructure that is needed and an increased police presence. You would also need to vote judges into office that are much tougher on crime. It's not rocket science. The reason you don't want people tougher on crime, is because to them, a law is a law. If you need to have them look the other way for your joints you have rolled in your ash tray, since they are so innocent, you also shouldn't be surprised when someone shoots someone else, and the Bailiff lets them out on personal recognizance bond because they had a bad childhood or they promise to do better. But being tough on crime is not popular like green energy, or homeless hotels. So keep fiddling Nero!!!
You can either have much more severe penalties and enforcement for gun related crimes and more police to patrol these higher risk areas, or you can live with what we have and wonder why it never gets any better? Better yet, send out some social workers during these gunfights and see how well they get things under control! But yeah, defunding the mean ass police will really help solve things. Anything that results in less boots on the ground for LEOs, or less training for the ones we have, is just a waste of time. Austin has been statistically underpoliced for at least 20 years, compared to other cities this size. If you aren't comparing it to other places with the same size, your comparison is not for crap. Guess what? New York City has more crime than Dallas. Damn....I wonder why?
I cannot even see how that would be logical to a 3rd grader.
It's almost like thinking more gun control would solve this. Both suspects wer not legally allowed to possess a pistol in the State of Texas. Damn....did they not read the laws before they headed to 6th street? Cmon....everyone follows those sacred gun laws....that's why we have to pass more......it makes things so damn safe! The only thing that will make crime less over time, IMHO, is to be tougher on enforcing it, which is very laughable in Travis County anyway, and having more police in an area to deter it. But none of that is popular. So keep your popular stuff that seems to be working great! I think the probability of getting shot or stabbed is higher in the 6th street district than in most other parts of town. I have heard of lots of crimes in the area over my 45+ years of living here. Maybe that is anecdotal, and I am sure the bar owners down there would certainly not want any actual facts or statistics about that published. But, you know, the show must go on, and people have to have somewhere to get drunk and act stupid. That's the place, in Austin.
My solution, spend taxpayer dollars on real infrastructure that is needed and an increased police presence. You would also need to vote judges into office that are much tougher on crime. It's not rocket science. The reason you don't want people tougher on crime, is because to them, a law is a law. If you need to have them look the other way for your joints you have rolled in your ash tray, since they are so innocent, you also shouldn't be surprised when someone shoots someone else, and the Bailiff lets them out on personal recognizance bond because they had a bad childhood or they promise to do better. But being tough on crime is not popular like green energy, or homeless hotels. So keep fiddling Nero!!!
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Agreed on many many points. Its not rocket science but it is nuanced. More resources, more training, better pay and more LEOs but adjust the policing model.
I know many scoff at the idea of social workers within in police departments but they do play a role. Should they be called to violent or potentially violent (most) calls? Absolutely not. They should work with officers to develop other proactive strategies including improving relations for the communities they police.
Also let our LEOs focus on issues that matter, violent crimes, other crime with victims, trafficking, doctors and pharmacists running pill mills and hard drugs users. Obviously, I fully support the decriminalization of marijuana. Have non arrest and prosecute solutions for disorderly conduct, drinking in public (why is this even illegal? in Austin its was historically only illegal in low income hoods which has now been changed), drug possession (Austin's decision not to arrest or cite for anything under 2oz was the right move, could pair with social workers), and loitering (get them to move along and be done with with).
For punishment a "drug court" style solution that includes social workers/rehab for first time and repeat hard drug offenders (with no other attached crime), holding those rehab facilitates accountable for the kind of treatment they provide (many rehabs are actual scams) , and other paths for minor property crimes.
Then, punish the bad actor LEOs and end the culture of cover ups. Do the right thing or get them out and out them in jail for their crimes with harsher punishments that you average citizen.
A few interesting stats about more police in the current model
70 pages for those that want some detailed analysis: https://www.nber.org/papers/w28202?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20210419&utm_term=5326149&utm_campaign=money&utm_id=49355949&orgid=&utm_att1=money
I know many scoff at the idea of social workers within in police departments but they do play a role. Should they be called to violent or potentially violent (most) calls? Absolutely not. They should work with officers to develop other proactive strategies including improving relations for the communities they police.
Also let our LEOs focus on issues that matter, violent crimes, other crime with victims, trafficking, doctors and pharmacists running pill mills and hard drugs users. Obviously, I fully support the decriminalization of marijuana. Have non arrest and prosecute solutions for disorderly conduct, drinking in public (why is this even illegal? in Austin its was historically only illegal in low income hoods which has now been changed), drug possession (Austin's decision not to arrest or cite for anything under 2oz was the right move, could pair with social workers), and loitering (get them to move along and be done with with).
For punishment a "drug court" style solution that includes social workers/rehab for first time and repeat hard drug offenders (with no other attached crime), holding those rehab facilitates accountable for the kind of treatment they provide (many rehabs are actual scams) , and other paths for minor property crimes.
Then, punish the bad actor LEOs and end the culture of cover ups. Do the right thing or get them out and out them in jail for their crimes with harsher punishments that you average citizen.
A few interesting stats about more police in the current model
70 pages for those that want some detailed analysis: https://www.nber.org/papers/w28202?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20210419&utm_term=5326149&utm_campaign=money&utm_id=49355949&orgid=&utm_att1=money
Quote:
adding a new police officer to a city prevents between 0.06 and 0.1 homicides, which means that the average city would need to hire between 10 and 17 new police officers to save one life a year. They estimate that costs taxpayers annually between $1.3 and $2.2 million
......
Adding more police, ....also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.
Even more, Williams and his coauthors find that, in the average city, larger police forces result in Black lives saved at about twice the rate of white lives saved (relative to their percentage of the population).
.....
While they find serious crimes fall after the average city expands its police force, the economists find that arrests for serious crimes also fall. The simultaneous reduction of both serious crime and arrests for serious crime suggests it's not arrests that are driving the reduction. Instead, it suggests merely having more police officers around drives it.
......[Key point for me after watch numerous low income friends and family get caught up in the system]
adding more police officers to a city means more people getting arrested for petty, low-level, victimless crimes, like disorderly conduct, drinking in public, drug possession, and loitering. Black people are disproportionately the target of these low-level arrests, saddling them with crippling court fees and forcing many kids sometimes unnecessarily into the criminal justice system.
....
The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people like many of those in the South and Midwest don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/6th-street-shooting-district-attorney-apd-interim-chief-give-updates-at-11-a-m/
Third suspect sought and DA dropping charges on the minors.
Third suspect sought and DA dropping charges on the minors.
Keeper of The Spirits said:
Agreed on many many points. Its not rocket science but it is nuanced. More resources, more training, better pay and more LEOs but adjust the policing model.
I know many scoff at the idea of social workers within in police departments but they do play a role. Should they be called to violent or potentially violent (most) calls? Absolutely not. They should work with officers to develop other proactive strategies including improving relations for the communities they police.
Also let our LEOs focus on issues that matter, violent crimes, other crime with victims, trafficking, doctors and pharmacists running pill mills and hard drugs users. Obviously, I fully support the decriminalization of marijuana. Have non arrest and prosecute solutions for disorderly conduct, drinking in public (why is this even illegal? in Austin its was historically only illegal in low income hoods which has now been changed), drug possession (Austin's decision not to arrest or cite for anything under 2oz was the right move, could pair with social workers), and loitering (get them to move along and be done with with).
For punishment a "drug court" style solution that includes social workers/rehab for first time and repeat hard drug offenders (with no other attached crime), holding those rehab facilitates accountable for the kind of treatment they provide (many rehabs are actual scams) , and other paths for minor property crimes.
Then, punish the bad actor LEOs and end the culture of cover ups. Do the right thing or get them out and out them in jail for their crimes with harsher punishments that you average citizen.
A few interesting stats about more police in the current model
70 pages for those that want some detailed analysis: https://www.nber.org/papers/w28202?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20210419&utm_term=5326149&utm_campaign=money&utm_id=49355949&orgid=&utm_att1=moneyQuote:
adding a new police officer to a city prevents between 0.06 and 0.1 homicides, which means that the average city would need to hire between 10 and 17 new police officers to save one life a year. They estimate that costs taxpayers annually between $1.3 and $2.2 million
......
Adding more police, ....also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.
Even more, Williams and his coauthors find that, in the average city, larger police forces result in Black lives saved at about twice the rate of white lives saved (relative to their percentage of the population).
.....
While they find serious crimes fall after the average city expands its police force, the economists find that arrests for serious crimes also fall. The simultaneous reduction of both serious crime and arrests for serious crime suggests it's not arrests that are driving the reduction. Instead, it suggests merely having more police officers around drives it.
......[Key point for me after watch numerous low income friends and family get caught up in the system]
adding more police officers to a city means more people getting arrested for petty, low-level, victimless crimes, like disorderly conduct, drinking in public, drug possession, and loitering. Black people are disproportionately the target of these low-level arrests, saddling them with crippling court fees and forcing many kids sometimes unnecessarily into the criminal justice system.
....
The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people like many of those in the South and Midwest don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes.
i am in agreement with a lot of what you suggest.
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