From today's Batt:

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Why is it so hard for people to understand that a driver turning right (South) onto Texas from University has his/her own turning lane? Every time I'm turning there, the driver in front of me just sits there and waits for traffic going down Texas to stop before making the turn. It is blatantly obvious that there's a dedicated lane for the person turning. It's really not that hard.

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I have always wondered about how this intersection. The guy in mail call says you have your own lane and you dont need to stop. There is no yeild sign for the turn. However, if the traffic light at that intersection controls traffic flow for that lane, you have to stop when the light is red just like you would on any other intersection (even if its a right hand turn). So the question really is does that traffic light control the traffic flow on that lane? I personally think it does since there is a protected green arrow for right hand turns. Is there a website that shows the traffic signals in town and what roads they regulate/control? I think I remember someone posting a link to some site a while back.



"There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't."

I treat it as if the light has no control over the right turn.

With that being said, sometimes people need to stop because they plan to turn left at the next light (into Best Buy, B&N, crappy meskin restaurant) and it is impossible to get over two lanes if the traffic is bad.

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I treat it as if the light has no control over the right turn.

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If the light does not control traffic on that lane why would there be a protected green arrow for right-hand turns?



"There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't."

The lane striping for that lane indicates the light does not govern the turn. That being said, CSPD being clueless about engineering stuff loves to enforce the light and loves to give tickets there. So if you don't want the hassle of going to TxDOT or the City for the engineering drawings to prove your case in court, just stop for a moment and go on your way.

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If the light does not control traffic on that lane why would there be a protected green arrow for right-hand turns?

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You make a very good point. Because of where I live and where I work, it's been years since I've turned right at that intersection so I forgot about the green arrow.

I still would just tap the brakes a little bit if I was going to stay in the far right lane.

I always assumed that since it was a right turn only lane and since a lane is dedicated to it on Texas, you could just turn right whenever you wanted. Does this lane even have a light? I've never noticed it. It seems like the lane just curves to the right almost like an exit ramp.

AggieOO got a ticket for running that red light back in '00 or '01. He was a little more than pissed.

The real attention needs to be paid to the inside lane of that intersection, IMO. In case any of y'all don't know, there is ONE right turn lane, THREE straight lanes, and ONE left turn lane. I turn left from University to Texas all the time and can't count the number of people I've seen either turn left from the innermost straight lane or just simply stop on a green in the innermost straight lane because the left turn light is red. I've almost seen some pretty ugly wrecks because people aren't paying attention.

I actually called the CSPD and was told that if the light is Red you should stop. This was back when the lane was first put in and I went thru it very often. I just wanted to be sure.

CSPD is wrong about needing to stop on red in the righthand dedicated lane. The arrow actually governs those vehicles in the next lane that may have not been able to get over and still want to turn. This info from the city engineers, which would trump CSPD in court.

I see CSPD cars all the time use that lane and not stop. You must have talked to a dispatcher who did not know.

From my understanding, the people that get pulled over at that locations are actually getting pulled over for crossing the white line.

Cop buddy says never stop or yield...it's your lane

As I posted earlier this week, crossing a solid white line is not illegal, at least according to Texas traffic law.

crossing two of them is...especially when there is a sign that says not to.

I took defensive driving in CS about 2 years ago and about 3 or 4 of the 25 people in the class had gotten tickets for not stopping at the red light and just going into their own lane...fwiw

More than likely those tickets were received at other intersections. For example, George Bush @ Texas looks similar to University @ Texas but it is not. You must come to a complete stop at that one.

University and Texas is a designated turning lane. I agree that they can't write a ticket for cruising on through there.

where is CSPD-AG when we need him?

that was a horrible post, cue CSPD crap about being out writing tickets right now

The people you called might be confused on the lane you're talking about. The right turn from Texas onto University and going towards Hwy 6 you DO have to stop. The right turn from University to Texas heading towards Best Buy you do NOT have to stop.

For what its worth, here is my personal experience with these:

CSPD likes to try and enforce these turns, but the prevailing authority for these roads is the state, or at least, so said an assistant DA with College Station. I got a ticket doing the first thing listed above and fought it because there was no light there and the DA I spoke of above tossed the ticket and basically said they can't do anything to change the intersection because its the state's responsibility.

The cop had told me that because there is a third line (the two for the crosswalk and a "stop line" across the turn, I had to stop there. The ADA gave the second turn I spoke about above as an example of a lane where you can go forward without stopping because it has only two lines (the crosswalk). When I was ticketed for this, the stop line was virtually gone from age and about a month after I went to court for this, they repainted those lines...made me think that maybe the city does have SOME control over the stuff on the roads there, but the ADA was very obviously tired of dealing with that ticket when people fought it.

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crossing two of them is...especially when there is a sign that says not to.

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Is it double at that intersection? I don't know. I was only responding to the post concerning a single white line.

Ok I'm back. Just for the record you do not have to stop turning right onto Texas from Eastbound University unless there is a person in that crosswalk. I know that there is a green arrow light but it is only confusing and does not apply. That is a protected lane due to the white lines that keep traffic from Texas coming into that outside lane. But the same does apply that you can't cross those white lines when you are getting over to go into TC or down Live Oak. Due to this post, it was brought to the department's attention that citations had been issued and a general email has been sent to officers that is is a protected turn and does not require a vehicle to stop unless the crosswalk is occupied. This won't fix the problem with people stopping there to annoy you but at least you can be sure that you are not normally required to stop.

I have this image of getting pulled over by a cop for not stopping there and saying, "but officer! TexAgs and CSPD-Ag said I didn't have to stop!"

Fly-
Print this thread out and keep it in your car.

CSPD-
Thanks for getting the word out!

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you can't cross those white lines when you are getting over to go into TC or down Live Oak

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I disagree. Everything I've read says that crossing a single white line is "discouraged", but not illegal. There is a single white line on both University and Texas used for traffic flow, and no sign prohibiting crossing said line.

[This message has been edited by 99_aggie_grad (edited 9/1/2006 10:48a).]

CSPD-AG, thanks for your input. I could have sworn I was told it was illegal to cross a single solid line, but I have not found anything related to to lane markings in the Texas Transportation Code. The only thing we have was 99_aggie_grad's link to the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, which I presume is just a manual and not codified.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/trf/mutcd/2006part3.pdf

Note, this is not meant to disrespect 99_aggie-grad. I just disagree and think the TTC has codified it to be illegal to cross a single solid line.

I have no idea what you're jabbering about, Burd.

If there is law on this somewhere, I'd like to see it just for clarification. Wouldn't want to get a $300 ticket for doing something I thought was only "discouraged" but in fact had been codified...or whatever.

From the DPS website:

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Solid white lines are used for pavement edge lines, shoulder markings, channelizing,
transitions and lane use control. Crossing a solid white line should
be avoided if possible. The solid yellow line on the left edge of the roadway
is a guide to drivers that driving to the left of the yellow line is prohibited
because the line is marking the left edge of the roadway. This type of yellow
line can be found on interstate highways

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http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf

No where does it say crossing a solid white line is prohibited.



"There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't."

In this case that white line is a traffic control device and should not be crossed.

§ 544.004. COMPLIANCE WITH TRAFFIC-CONTROL DEVICE.
(a) The operator of a vehicle or streetcar shall comply with an applicable official traffic-control device placed as provided by this subtitle unless the person is:
(1) otherwise directed by a traffic or police officer; or
(2) operating an authorized emergency vehicle and is subject to exceptions under this subtitle.
(b) A provision of this subtitle requiring an official traffic-control device may not be enforced against an alleged violator if at the time and place of the alleged violation the device is not in proper position and sufficiently legible to an ordinarily observant person. A provision of this subtitle that does not require an official traffic-control device is effective regardless of whether a device is in place.

Where is the definition of a "traffic control device"? I could not find it in the transportation code. Can't all lines be considered traffic control devices?



"There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't."

I also wish people would realize that when exiting from the bypass 6 and going west of University there is also a dedicated lane for you in front of the Exxon station and Chedders. You do not have to stop and look for traffic coming from the overpass.

Just to follow up on this, I passed the information on to the chief and he got with the city traffic planners and has either had the green arrow removed or it will be removed soon. I'll check the intersection tomorrow night when I get back to work.

By doing that, you will be causing the traffic flow to be totally screwed up.

IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY FOR A REASON.

I am not anti-CSPD but that has got to be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard of...

How will removing the green arrow cause problems?

The green arrow caused people to believe that the outside lane (protected lane) was controlled by that little green arrow. With the arrow gone it should make it more clear that the lane is protected. The only way to make it better would have been to keep it a constant green arrow but I don't think they were planning on doing that.