EFR said:

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If the type of places you mentioned thought NG was a profitable place to open they would buy/rent space when it comes available. They have not. What you are asking is for government to work against one set of local business owners in favor of another, which is a terrible idea.

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I don't think anyone is asking government to pick winners and losers. Northgate isn't just another commercial strip, it's the front door to Texas A&M and one of the most recognizable places in College Station.

With six new high-rises and thousands of students now calling Northgate home, the future shouldn't be more of the same. Students deserve coffee shops, a neighborhood grocery, restaurants, and everyday amenities, not a district dominated by bars.

Take a walk through Northgate during the day. Is a streetscape dominated by dirty nightclub entrances, gritty security fencing, and worn sidewalks really the image we want for the gateway to Texas A&M?

Northgate once had a much better mix of coffee shops, bookstores, record stores, restaurants, and local businesses. I'd love to see us bring that character back.

Quote:

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Northgate once had a much better mix of coffee shops, bookstores, record stores, restaurants, and local businesses. I'd love to see us bring that character back.

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Me too. But, the city is the last people that need to be involved in that. Maintain and repair the streets, ensure public safely, and let individuals that want to open these type of establishments do so and hopefully thrive.

There are lots of examples to choose from, but Macy's is obviously the most glaring and well-known of what happens when the city gets into the business of trying to decide what types of businesses locate where and decide to replace their judgment over market demands.

The government needs to keep their hands out of things they have no business getting involved with. Do the things you are supposed to do: maintenance of the roads, flower beds, etc and protection of the people-police, fire, emt. The government is not a real estate developer, let the market decide what goes there. If a grocery store thinks they can make a go, then they can buy some land and build a store, same for coffee shops, bookstores, whatever.

Yep.

Owners need to be responsible for the upkeep of their property.

A police substation that is in Northgate would cut down on a lot of problems.
Having two EMT's there Thurs - Sat. wouldn't hurt, either.

phillytex24 said:

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Northgate once had a much better mix of coffee shops, bookstores, record stores, restaurants, and local businesses. I'd love to see us bring that character back.

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You'll need a time machine.

None of you are wrong. More variety in establishments would be great. What is government's role, if any, in encouraging that? Great exchange this morning. Food for thought all around.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

phillytex24 said:

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Back in the early 2000s there used to be a substation in the parking garage in Northgate. Is that no longer there?

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No, that was short lived and hasn't been there in over 20 years. When the garage was built in the early 2000s, CSPD had a limited-hours office on the first floor (this was way before the dedicated Northgate/bike squad existed). That didn't last long and it eventually became just a small parking enforcement office, which is what it remains now.

Bob Yancy said:

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None of you are wrong. More variety in establishments would be great. What is government's role, if any, in encouraging that? Great exchange this morning. Food for thought all around.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Honestly? It's all about access.

A lot of businesses have suffered over the years because they had to basically exclusively rely on daytime foot traffic, which really isn't as concentrated as some would like to believe. I remember wanting to visit Roni's Mac Bar and the only viable option was to park five blocks away. (It was not worth it).

There could be a point some day when Northgate is entirely self-sustaining and parking can command premiums, but we're not at that point yet. Instead Northgate can't even hold onto its Starbucks because of its crippled access problems.

As far as College Station's section of Northgate goes and not the part in Bryan, there's not a whole lot to work with. I think a "real" supermarket is completely off the table. I could see one within walking distance, sort of...maybe if you demolished the apartment complexes there at F&B Road and Old College Avenue to re-align Old College Avenue, then adding a big retail project in that corner, maybe...but that's in Bryan.

One thing that I think would help...and hear me out...is adding stoplights up and down Church Avenue. It would make traffic flow smoother in peak hours, and during daytime hours they can be used as blink cycles or could be used as a full stop for pedestrian crossings.

I think overall connectivity would be helped if that one block of College Main was restored to vehicular traffic, which would help inbound and outbound traffic to campus. Maybe have gates go down after 8 pm on weekends.

PS3D said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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None of you are wrong. More variety in establishments would be great. What is government's role, if any, in encouraging that? Great exchange this morning. Food for thought all around.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Honestly? It's all about access.

A lot of businesses have suffered over the years because they had to basically exclusively rely on daytime foot traffic, which really isn't as concentrated as some would like to believe. I remember wanting to visit Roni's Mac Bar and the only viable option was to park five blocks away. (It was not worth it).

There could be a point some day when Northgate is entirely self-sustaining and parking can command premiums, but we're not at that point yet. Instead Northgate can't even hold onto its Starbucks because of its crippled access problems.

As far as College Station's section of Northgate goes and not the part in Bryan, there's not a whole lot to work with. I think a "real" supermarket is completely off the table. I could see one within walking distance, sort of...maybe if you demolished the apartment complexes there at F&B Road and Old College Avenue to re-align Old College Avenue, then adding a big retail project in that corner, maybe...but that's in Bryan.

One thing that I think would help...and hear me out...is adding stoplights up and down Church Avenue. It would make traffic flow smoother in peak hours, and during daytime hours they can be used as blink cycles or could be used as a full stop for pedestrian crossings.

I think overall connectivity would be helped if that one block of College Main was restored to vehicular traffic, which would help inbound and outbound traffic to campus. Maybe have gates go down after 8 pm on weekends.

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Interesting perspective. Thank you kindly. As one member of council- and pardon me for being repetitive here, I think:

1) nice, well lit and prominent substation
2) fix the planters and pavilions
3) resurface and to a degree, repurpose a portion of the surface lot to accommodate ride share and deliveries, as well as a gathering space with a spot for live music and away game Jumbotron
4) refurbish the garage with prominent signage
5) Lovett & Keen statue
6) preservation policies to ensure no student towers on core Northgate

I think if we do those things and step back and watch, you'll see the private sector start to repurpose and renovate several establishments / shops and bring some variety for daytime activities back.

Respectfully

Yancy '95 Place 5

Bob Yancy said:

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rocketscience said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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PS3D said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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None of you are wrong. More variety in establishments would be great. What is government's role, if any, in encouraging that? Great exchange this morning. Food for thought all around.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Honestly? It's all about access.

A lot of businesses have suffered over the years because they had to basically exclusively rely on daytime foot traffic, which really isn't as concentrated as some would like to believe. I remember wanting to visit Roni's Mac Bar and the only viable option was to park five blocks away. (It was not worth it).

There could be a point some day when Northgate is entirely self-sustaining and parking can command premiums, but we're not at that point yet. Instead Northgate can't even hold onto its Starbucks because of its crippled access problems.

As far as College Station's section of Northgate goes and not the part in Bryan, there's not a whole lot to work with. I think a "real" supermarket is completely off the table. I could see one within walking distance, sort of...maybe if you demolished the apartment complexes there at F&B Road and Old College Avenue to re-align Old College Avenue, then adding a big retail project in that corner, maybe...but that's in Bryan.

One thing that I think would help...and hear me out...is adding stoplights up and down Church Avenue. It would make traffic flow smoother in peak hours, and during daytime hours they can be used as blink cycles or could be used as a full stop for pedestrian crossings.

I think overall connectivity would be helped if that one block of College Main was restored to vehicular traffic, which would help inbound and outbound traffic to campus. Maybe have gates go down after 8 pm on weekends.

---

Interesting perspective. Thank you kindly. As one member of council- and pardon me for being repetitive here, I think:

1) nice, well lit and prominent substation
2) fix the planters and pavilions
3) resurface and to a degree, repurpose a portion of the surface lot to accommodate ride share and deliveries, as well as a gathering space with a spot for live music and away game Jumbotron
4) refurbish the garage with prominent signage
5) Lovett & Keen statue
6) preservation policies to ensure no student towers on core Northgate

I think if we do those things and step back and watch, you'll see the private sector start to repurpose and renovate several establishments / shops and bring some variety for daytime activities back.

Respectfully

Yancy '95 Place 5

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Has there been any thought of splitting part of the lot up and selling off a portion(s) to business owners who would want to build something complementary to what already exists (definitely not copying, but fitting in with the character) in that part of Northgate? Certainly there may be no business owners who want to do that but from eyeing it on Google Maps, it looks like the line of bars from Dry Bean to Chubbies could fit on half the parking lot (again, not copying- but maybe 2-3 small format single or two story restaurants could fit along the Boyett side of the lot), leaving the other half for a flexible plaza that could be parking most times but turn into a public area during game days, away games, and any other events.

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If there's a way to pull it off, I'd love to see Cafe Eccel come home! But, that's playing developer which isn't a proper role of government.

I'm not sure about your question but it's intriguing. I'm going to have to quiz a developer or entrepreneur or two about exactly why that hasn't happened to a degree with other structures there already. I can't imagine with that many humans living down there that coffee and sandwich shops and even retail shops with tshirts and Aggie memorabilia wouldn't thrive.

As for the surface lot, staff were going to bring us some options and repurposing a small portion of it while preserving some parking was discussed.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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The area around Social and Mama's Lounge should be the first step. Stop allowing additional bars and begin rezoning that area into a true mixed-use district.

Over the years, as students moved to other parts of town, Northgate gradually became more dilapidated. As the area declined, it evolved into a seedy bar district. But that era is ending. With six new student high-rises already built and more planned, thousands of students are moving back into Northgate.

The district should evolve with a completely new neighborhood plan that reflects the thousands of people who now live there. Instead of more bars, Northgate should become a premier, walkable district with coffee shops, a grocery store, restaurants, shopping, and everyday services. If we don't provide those amenities where people live, we'll force thousands of students to drive across town for basic necessities, creating even more traffic and congestion.

Northgate is the front door, and one of the gateways, to Texas A&M and one of the most iconic places in College Station. It shouldn't be defined by dirty nightclub entrances, security fencing, and worn sidewalks. It should reflect the future of the university and become a destination the entire community can be proud of. One that will sustain the 80k new students moving into the area.

https://www.aggienetwork.com/traditionsthroughtime/northgate/

Pretty cool project from the Association!!

Gateway that has hideous concrete barriers reminding one of the Green Zone in Baghdad. I understand what prompted them, but they are awful.

Surely, something could be done.

As a parent paying rent for now 2 students this fall, I'm all for more competition. I'd really like to know what the occupancy rates of these newer apartments. As any market, there is a limit. And, I think NG Housing is over saturated. The newest apartments are cannibalizing much of the market from the older ones. Not to mention all the temu frat houses they've built at south gate and all the apartments along Wellborn south of campus.

Gen Z, especially ones that are smart enough to gain acceptance to TAMU, drink less and are much more into fitness. That's why everyone of these places all have comprehensive gyms and fitness options. Hell, I was surprised to find out most of them allow pets. One of my son's room mates had a dog!

Thing is, and many of you don't want to hear this, NG should cater to current students. That's the market. Our idea of times gone by are just that. You can't go back.

If I lived in the area, I'd never go. I'll admit it's been nice w/ my son living there. I've been on football weekends, weekdays, parents weekend and its been nostalgic. He can get me a visitor parking pass. Very convenient and I've been able to relive some of my youth. Traffic and access has been surprisingly simple.

I'd also say the idea of a police substation there is as third world as the concrete barriers...

The barriers are definitely not the most aesthetically pleasing for sure, but they are essential given the speed on University. It may be a moot issue in the future if the overpass design comes to fruition.

Perhaps something could be done, like murals painted on them, in the meantime.

Buford T. Justice said:

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I could see that area becoming the "Heights" of B/CS.

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I assume you're talking about Houston Heights, correct?

I don't think so. Very, very different, and not just because "it's Houston". The Heights is a much larger area than Northgate and more room to play around with...a huge part of the problem with Northgate is that it's a very small collection of blocks, so as far as influence and tax dollars of College Station goes, it's not much. (Also, the Heights has grown wealthier since the 1990s, more than Northgate ever was).

The biggest difference though? For decades, the Heights was entirely dry, it was only after November 2016 that alcoholic beverages (even beer and wine) could be sold; the old Fiesta Beverage Mart, usually outside the stores, was located several blocks away, and H-E-B didn't agree to build their store unless the wet measure passed. When H-E-B did build it was a large, long block that had an older vacant Fiesta store that was once used as an early discount store. There really isn't room for a supermarket like that, even with a parking garage, on Northgate. The block it sits on (and by extension, the Heights blocks) are 300 feet x 600 feet (roughly).

Could it work? Sure...but you'd have to make sacrifices. If you convinced A&M United Methodist Church to part with the Wesley Foundation building and bulldozed Aggieland Credit Union, the old FedEx, Subway, and the gas station, then sure, I could see it working. However, I don't think that when people talk about "yeah there should be a two-story H-E-B on Northgate" they don't take into scale the actual space. Some of you might be nodding along and thinking that's a grand idea, some of you probably think that replacing that whole block with what is essentially a blank wall is horrifying.

phillytex24 said:

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The area around Social and Mama's Lounge should be the first step. Stop allowing additional bars and begin rezoning that area into a true mixed-use district.

Over the years, as students moved to other parts of town, Northgate gradually became more dilapidated. As the area declined, it evolved into a seedy bar district. But that era is ending. With six new student high-rises already built and more planned, thousands of students are moving back into Northgate.

The district should evolve with a completely new neighborhood plan that reflects the thousands of people who now live there. Instead of more bars, Northgate should become a premier, walkable district with coffee shops, a grocery store, restaurants, shopping, and everyday services. If we don't provide those amenities where people live, we'll force thousands of students to drive across town for basic necessities, creating even more traffic and congestion.

Northgate is the front door, and one of the gateways, to Texas A&M and one of the most iconic places in College Station. It shouldn't be defined by dirty nightclub entrances, security fencing, and worn sidewalks. It should reflect the future of the university and become a destination the entire community can be proud of. One that will sustain the 80k new students moving into the area.

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There are more bars since the city started investing in the area since the late 1990s and building the promenade. If we compare the existing buildings on University and College Main, most of them have flipped to bar use. I'm leaving out the buildings that already had bars (like Dixie Chicken, etc.)

203 University Drive - The Deluxe Diner to Chimy's (ambiguous case, but definitely more clubby)
205 University Drive - M&M Grill/DoubleDave's to Good Bull Icehouse (has been a nightclub since 2006 if you don't count the time as 4.0 & Go in the late 2010s)
209 University Drive - Aggieland Flowers & Gifts to The 12 Rooftop Bar & Lounge (has been a bar since 2006)
215 University Drive - Bill's Style Shop to Commanders Cove (was part of Zapatos Cantina since the early 2000s, but briefly hosted a smoothie shop)
335 University Drive - Loupot's to whatever it is now (Toku 12? First Down? Bomhaus?--Loupot's closed in 2012)
108 College Main - Copasetic Cafe to Rush (bar since around 1999)
109 College Main - Sarge's to Sugar Babies (front for a speakeasy--Sarge's closed 2020)
111 College Main - Aggie Cleaners to Dragonfly (not sure when this turned into a bar)
113 College Main - Disc-Go-Round (records) to Mama Sake (used to at least have a daytime sushi bar in the early 2010s)
317-319 College Main - Chicken Basket and a non-bar vacancy to Logie's on Campus (flipped in the early 2000s after the Texadelphia the City brought in failed...which they blamed on parking)
106 College Main - Holick's to One15 (bar in the mid-2000s after Holick's moved)
401 University Drive - A variety of businesses and restaurants to just a large bar (happened over time, starting in the mid to late 2000s to the late 2010s/early 2020s).

Not one bar has flipped to non-bar use outside of extremely short intervals, and I didn't even cover Boyett Street.

What can we take away from this?

- If the City wanted anything Northgate to be anything other than a bar district, it has been a resounding failure.
- If you measure Northgate's prosperity by the number of bars, it has absolutely declined since the late 1990s.
- If the City wanted Northgate to be almost exclusively bars, they have done a rather good job.
- It is revisionist history to state that Northgate has always been an "entertainment district", nor has it been organic. Between the promenade and the closure of College Main, the City has had a hand in shaping Northgate to what it is today.

Reading this thread, its full of a ton of speculation and opinion, and only a healthy smattering of facts. I can say with confidence that I am as familiar with Northgate and its trajectory for the last 35 years as anyone could be, as I have been there on site to experience it firsthand. I have had the city as a landlord, personally experienced several regimes of city staff and councils, and have an entire business career rooted there. Suffice to say, I believe the credentials are there for me to speak with some bit of authority. I started working there as a pizza cook for someone else and then purchased their position (two businesses) after 9 years working for them in 1999, at 28 years old. I still go up there at night on weekends when most of this board is sleeping. I go up on gamedays and see all the families with children and alumni.

I won't take a deep dive into it all as it would take far too much time and effort. I've just logged on to say that arguably I've got more reason to look back to history with some heartburn then likely most other people, as I'm vested and my livelihood has and will continue to depend on Northgate, as well as my fellow merchants, stakeholders etc. I however choose to look forward, as time marches on.

All that said, serving on the NDA leadership, Tourism Committee etc., our self-imposed mandate is to have positive impact on decision making going forward. Our interest and determination were supercharged by the proposed student high rise on the surface parking lot. Selling that lot is a one-way door that will forever be closed once it's opened. Regardless of opinion about the lot, that's a fact. It should be assigned more value than a hurried sale or redevelopment. This whole Northgate thing is a marathon and not a sprint.

Austin's problems on 6th started when they created a homeless shelter a block away (2004-2005 I believe).
Their local government was full of transplants from other states that literally created what they ran away from. Spend some time in LA, San Fran, Portland, and Seattle and you'll understand.
The shelter is full 100% of the time and the ones that don't get in, live on the streets.
It's sad but most suffer from multiple forms of addiction. They even have areas to dispose of needles all around there.
Throw in a bunch of drunk/high kids in and it became a disaster.
Then they started the whole tent-thing and the situation exacerbated even more.
APD is next door but I know from several high ranking officials that they don't have time to deal with them.
We're no where close to that fiasco and I doubt we'd make those mistakes.

TyHolden said:

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Austin's problems on 6th started when they created a homeless shelter a block away (2004-2005 I believe).
Their local government was full of transplants from other states that literally created what they ran away from. Spend some time in LA, San Fran, Portland, and Seattle and you'll understand.
The shelter is full 100% of the time and the ones that don't get in, live on the streets.
It's sad but most suffer from multiple forms of addiction. They even have areas to dispose of needles all around there.
Throw in a bunch of drunk/high kids in and it became a disaster.
Then they started the whole tent-thing and the situation exacerbated even more.
APD is next door but I know from several high ranking officials that they don't have time to deal with them.
We're no where close to that fiasco and I doubt we'd make those mistakes.

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When the 6th Street comparisons have come up, they aren't talking about the dangerous, crime-filled area it became by the early 2020s that even the Austin magazines couldn't ignore, they're mostly talking about its heyday at least 15 years ago if not prior.

I suspect that 6th Street has been somewhat romanticized, and the uglier aspects of it are either ignored or swept under the rug. I don't see eye to eye on Mr. Yancy on whatever he sees Northgate as or should be, but I'm 100% sure he doesn't look at Northgate and think "Well, if we only had more crime here".

PS3D said:

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There are more bars since the city started investing in the area since the late 1990s and building the promenade. If we compare the existing buildings on University and College Main, most of them have flipped to bar use. I'm leaving out the buildings that already had bars (like Dixie Chicken, etc.)

203 University Drive - The Deluxe Diner to Chimy's (ambiguous case, but definitely more clubby)
205 University Drive - M&M Grill/DoubleDave's to Good Bull Icehouse (has been a nightclub since 2006 if you don't count the time as 4.0 & Go in the late 2010s)
209 University Drive - Aggieland Flowers & Gifts to The 12 Rooftop Bar & Lounge (has been a bar since 2006)
215 University Drive - Bill's Style Shop to Commanders Cove (was part of Zapatos Cantina since the early 2000s, but briefly hosted a smoothie shop)
335 University Drive - Loupot's to whatever it is now (Toku 12? First Down? Bomhaus?--Loupot's closed in 2012)
108 College Main - Copasetic Cafe to Rush (bar since around 1999)
109 College Main - Sarge's to Sugar Babies (front for a speakeasy--Sarge's closed 2020)
111 College Main - Aggie Cleaners to Dragonfly (not sure when this turned into a bar)
113 College Main - Disc-Go-Round (records) to Mama Sake (used to at least have a daytime sushi bar in the early 2010s)
317-319 College Main - Chicken Basket and a non-bar vacancy to Logie's on Campus (flipped in the early 2000s after the Texadelphia the City brought in failed...which they blamed on parking)
106 College Main - Holick's to One15 (bar in the mid-2000s after Holick's moved)
401 University Drive - A variety of businesses and restaurants to just a large bar (happened over time, starting in the mid to late 2000s to the late 2010s/early 2020s).

Not one bar has flipped to non-bar use outside of extremely short intervals, and I didn't even cover Boyett Street.

What can we take away from this?

- If the City wanted anything Northgate to be anything other than a bar district, it has been a resounding failure.
- If you measure Northgate's prosperity by the number of bars, it has absolutely declined since the late 1990s.
- If the City wanted Northgate to be almost exclusively bars, they have done a rather good job.
- It is revisionist history to state that Northgate has always been an "entertainment district", nor has it been organic. Between the promenade and the closure of College Main, the City has had a hand in shaping Northgate to what it is today.

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I couldn't agree with this more.... NG is what it is, not what it has always been, and it is what it is largely due to the city's involvement in the permitting and incentives that it has enacted. I personally am not a fan but to each their own. I stay away when I can avoid it. The city has built up the promenade into an outdoor party venue, and they've closed off College Main to allow for more socializing and malingering. This thing has legs now; we've seen what they can do when a proposal comes up that conflicts with their vision. The sale of the surface lot was killed because a vocal minority. I'd love to know how many folks that rattle their sabers about Macy's and how the city shouldn't be in the real estate development game, how they should allow the market to dictate industry, how many of those folks happily stood in the way of the city selling off the surface lot and allowing the market to dictate the use of the property...

Northgate lost it's charm when they paved the dirt lot.