tu ag said:

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Where is the next major road (or roads), on the very South end of CS, going to go? Lots of rooftops going up and the infrastructure is already behind.

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D_Wag97 said:

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tu ag said:

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Where is the next major road (or roads), on the very South end of CS, going to go? Lots of rooftops going up and the infrastructure is already behind.

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The whole city is like this- like all the planners never envisioned CS growing past Harvey. There's no continuity in any north-south roads due to neighborhoods that were built without foresight, and it's happening again. Same thing for east-west. Greens Prairie is already at capacity with more houses coming.

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NotJPMorgan said:

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The updated classification seems appropriate to me, however the removal of the plan for extension/connection will inevitably result in the issues currently seen all over College Station: roads that should continue abruptly ending with hundreds or thousands of residences beyond their boundary.

Welsh, Anderson, and Dexter are perfect examples of unplanned growth and neighborhood opposition that have crippled traffic in our city for years.

20 years from now, residents of Southeast College Station will be complaining about why they can't get across this part of town without using Hwy 6 or Lakeway (which will be a glorified feeder road) and we'll have decisions like this to look back on and NIMBYs to thank.

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Bob Yancy said:

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We had an optimum spot all picked out and we let it go in 2021 at 2021 prices.

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AggiePhil said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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We had an optimum spot all picked out and we let it go in 2021 at 2021 prices.

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Where was that?

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doubledog said:

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Bob the take home lesson, for me, is that the council rejected the advise of their own fire department. We the citizens of CoCS entrust our safety on our firefighters and yet we reject their advise.

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tu ag said:

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Where is the next major road (or roads), on the very South end of CS, going to go? Lots of rooftops going up and the infrastructure is already behind.

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PS3D said:

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I wrote something in regards to this in October but I didn't get any replies so I'll rework it:

When it comes to city growth and housing, we can argue all day about density and "stealth dorms" but when it comes to actually expanding and building roads to make the city work, people absolutely lose it.

Bryan-College Station expands north to south rather than east to west, much like Austin, and also much like Austin the road network stinks. There's only a few major roads that go north-south (like Texas Avenue) but the rest of the city is composed of mostly-useless two lane roads (with bike lanes and turning lanes) that go nowhere, and every time a road expansion comes up, either someone complains or drops the ball. The South Holleman/Rock Prairie stoplight was designed to have two lanes in each direction from Rock Prairie Road West, but then the city cheaped out on it, didn't widen it to four lanes (also creating a potentially dangerous situation where cars merge just after the General Parkway turnoff), and a mess of multiple missed opportunities I'm not particularly optimistic, made even worse by the fact that there are now multiple patches of concrete where they had to dig things out again and do utility work all across the expansion.

Put simply, we need to have a grid of 4+ lane roads going north/south and east/west that completely connect to as many areas as possible. Every time we have an opportunity to make a major road project, someone always, always complains, and then the city backs down every time, or just sleeps on what would be a good opportunity. For example, at various points, Dexter Drive was to be widened to four lanes or Munson to six, but even when a window of opportunity comes open the City doesn't grasp it. For instance, a plan decades ago to connect Houston Street to Welsh was killed, and instead of the two lanes + turn lane + bike path all the way to campus (which would be a great relief point for Wellborn and Texas Avenue) Welsh Avenue peters out two blocks away from George Bush Drive.

However, about 10-15 years ago most of the rental homes on Welsh north of Holleman were being torn down and rebuilt, the City of College Station missed a golden opportunity to go ahead and widen Welsh all the way to campus and provide a relief outlet for Wellborn and Texas Avenue...or when Rock Prairie Elementary School was up for renovation there should have at least been an alternative to completely rebuild the school to allow for a re-routing of Welsh Avenue and eliminating the stoplight while completely re-imagining the ingress/egress of the school.

There needs to be a complete four-lane avenue on the east side of the city--Highway 6 grinds to a halt during rush hour because it is forced to do double-duty as a local avenue and an inter-city highway. There's just no other alternatives, not even Dartmouth, which lost its extra lanes around 2015-2016 (and a planned connection to Brothers still waits).

The biggest impediment to traffic flow is going to be Texas A&M University, roads have to go around it, instead of through it (with the exception of Wellborn Road). I know there's talk of sinking University Drive to connect better with Northgate, but I also think that there needs to be a north-south connection as well. Imagine, if you will, instead of College Avenue going into campus, entering a tunnel that goes underneath Main Campus and emerging as a connection to Anderson. It wouldn't be a panacea for traffic but it could take load off of Texas Avenue and Wellborn.

The other thing that College Station needs to do is work with Bryan. Years ago, I was frustrated how College Main was turned into a nice little street on the Bryan side, adding bike lanes, sidewalks, and so forth, while the College Station side abruptly dead-ended in an alley. Meanwhile, Bryan has its own issues, ruining Finfeather and WJB, among others.

There NEEDS to be a north-south road east of the highway that actually goes somewhere, but as we can see with the Pebble Creek crowd and the East Loop crowd I don't see that happening. A few people with a lot of money can make a big difference.

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Bob Yancy said:

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PS3D said:

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I wrote something in regards to this in October but I didn't get any replies so I'll rework it:

When it comes to city growth and housing, we can argue all day about density and "stealth dorms" but when it comes to actually expanding and building roads to make the city work, people absolutely lose it.

Bryan-College Station expands north to south rather than east to west, much like Austin, and also much like Austin the road network stinks. There's only a few major roads that go north-south (like Texas Avenue) but the rest of the city is composed of mostly-useless two lane roads (with bike lanes and turning lanes) that go nowhere, and every time a road expansion comes up, either someone complains or drops the ball. The South Holleman/Rock Prairie stoplight was designed to have two lanes in each direction from Rock Prairie Road West, but then the city cheaped out on it, didn't widen it to four lanes (also creating a potentially dangerous situation where cars merge just after the General Parkway turnoff), and a mess of multiple missed opportunities I'm not particularly optimistic, made even worse by the fact that there are now multiple patches of concrete where they had to dig things out again and do utility work all across the expansion.

Put simply, we need to have a grid of 4+ lane roads going north/south and east/west that completely connect to as many areas as possible. Every time we have an opportunity to make a major road project, someone always, always complains, and then the city backs down every time, or just sleeps on what would be a good opportunity. For example, at various points, Dexter Drive was to be widened to four lanes or Munson to six, but even when a window of opportunity comes open the City doesn't grasp it. For instance, a plan decades ago to connect Houston Street to Welsh was killed, and instead of the two lanes + turn lane + bike path all the way to campus (which would be a great relief point for Wellborn and Texas Avenue) Welsh Avenue peters out two blocks away from George Bush Drive.

However, about 10-15 years ago most of the rental homes on Welsh north of Holleman were being torn down and rebuilt, the City of College Station missed a golden opportunity to go ahead and widen Welsh all the way to campus and provide a relief outlet for Wellborn and Texas Avenue...or when Rock Prairie Elementary School was up for renovation there should have at least been an alternative to completely rebuild the school to allow for a re-routing of Welsh Avenue and eliminating the stoplight while completely re-imagining the ingress/egress of the school.

There needs to be a complete four-lane avenue on the east side of the city--Highway 6 grinds to a halt during rush hour because it is forced to do double-duty as a local avenue and an inter-city highway. There's just no other alternatives, not even Dartmouth, which lost its extra lanes around 2015-2016 (and a planned connection to Brothers still waits).

The biggest impediment to traffic flow is going to be Texas A&M University, roads have to go around it, instead of through it (with the exception of Wellborn Road). I know there's talk of sinking University Drive to connect better with Northgate, but I also think that there needs to be a north-south connection as well. Imagine, if you will, instead of College Avenue going into campus, entering a tunnel that goes underneath Main Campus and emerging as a connection to Anderson. It wouldn't be a panacea for traffic but it could take load off of Texas Avenue and Wellborn.

The other thing that College Station needs to do is work with Bryan. Years ago, I was frustrated how College Main was turned into a nice little street on the Bryan side, adding bike lanes, sidewalks, and so forth, while the College Station side abruptly dead-ended in an alley. Meanwhile, Bryan has its own issues, ruining Finfeather and WJB, among others.

There NEEDS to be a north-south road east of the highway that actually goes somewhere, but as we can see with the Pebble Creek crowd and the East Loop crowd I don't see that happening. A few people with a lot of money can make a big difference.

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I agree with a good portion of what you've written. What I like about your approach is you're obviously not a "process person." You get into the weeds on details that matter, and apparently would be willing to make adjustments on the fly.

Unfortunately, we have a ton of "processes" and it's hard to do that.

I disagree with you on Pebble though. We have Rock Prairie as a 4 lane arterial running generally north south, we have Pebble as a neighborhood collector, we have Lakeway (if we upclassify it as we should) making Midtown/Lakeway north / south as an arterial, and we have the freeway and its frontage roads.

With those changes, the southeast quadrant of College Station complies with AASHTO standards and we have good north / south flow.

My $.02

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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PS3D said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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PS3D said:

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I wrote something in regards to this in October but I didn't get any replies so I'll rework it:

When it comes to city growth and housing, we can argue all day about density and "stealth dorms" but when it comes to actually expanding and building roads to make the city work, people absolutely lose it.

Bryan-College Station expands north to south rather than east to west, much like Austin, and also much like Austin the road network stinks. There's only a few major roads that go north-south (like Texas Avenue) but the rest of the city is composed of mostly-useless two lane roads (with bike lanes and turning lanes) that go nowhere, and every time a road expansion comes up, either someone complains or drops the ball. The South Holleman/Rock Prairie stoplight was designed to have two lanes in each direction from Rock Prairie Road West, but then the city cheaped out on it, didn't widen it to four lanes (also creating a potentially dangerous situation where cars merge just after the General Parkway turnoff), and a mess of multiple missed opportunities I'm not particularly optimistic, made even worse by the fact that there are now multiple patches of concrete where they had to dig things out again and do utility work all across the expansion.

Put simply, we need to have a grid of 4+ lane roads going north/south and east/west that completely connect to as many areas as possible. Every time we have an opportunity to make a major road project, someone always, always complains, and then the city backs down every time, or just sleeps on what would be a good opportunity. For example, at various points, Dexter Drive was to be widened to four lanes or Munson to six, but even when a window of opportunity comes open the City doesn't grasp it. For instance, a plan decades ago to connect Houston Street to Welsh was killed, and instead of the two lanes + turn lane + bike path all the way to campus (which would be a great relief point for Wellborn and Texas Avenue) Welsh Avenue peters out two blocks away from George Bush Drive.

However, about 10-15 years ago most of the rental homes on Welsh north of Holleman were being torn down and rebuilt, the City of College Station missed a golden opportunity to go ahead and widen Welsh all the way to campus and provide a relief outlet for Wellborn and Texas Avenue...or when Rock Prairie Elementary School was up for renovation there should have at least been an alternative to completely rebuild the school to allow for a re-routing of Welsh Avenue and eliminating the stoplight while completely re-imagining the ingress/egress of the school.

There needs to be a complete four-lane avenue on the east side of the city--Highway 6 grinds to a halt during rush hour because it is forced to do double-duty as a local avenue and an inter-city highway. There's just no other alternatives, not even Dartmouth, which lost its extra lanes around 2015-2016 (and a planned connection to Brothers still waits).

The biggest impediment to traffic flow is going to be Texas A&M University, roads have to go around it, instead of through it (with the exception of Wellborn Road). I know there's talk of sinking University Drive to connect better with Northgate, but I also think that there needs to be a north-south connection as well. Imagine, if you will, instead of College Avenue going into campus, entering a tunnel that goes underneath Main Campus and emerging as a connection to Anderson. It wouldn't be a panacea for traffic but it could take load off of Texas Avenue and Wellborn.

The other thing that College Station needs to do is work with Bryan. Years ago, I was frustrated how College Main was turned into a nice little street on the Bryan side, adding bike lanes, sidewalks, and so forth, while the College Station side abruptly dead-ended in an alley. Meanwhile, Bryan has its own issues, ruining Finfeather and WJB, among others.

There NEEDS to be a north-south road east of the highway that actually goes somewhere, but as we can see with the Pebble Creek crowd and the East Loop crowd I don't see that happening. A few people with a lot of money can make a big difference.

---

I agree with a good portion of what you've written. What I like about your approach is you're obviously not a "process person." You get into the weeds on details that matter, and apparently would be willing to make adjustments on the fly.

Unfortunately, we have a ton of "processes" and it's hard to do that.

I disagree with you on Pebble though. We have Rock Prairie as a 4 lane arterial running generally north south, we have Pebble as a neighborhood collector, we have Lakeway (if we upclassify it as we should) making Midtown/Lakeway north / south as an arterial, and we have the freeway and its frontage roads.

With those changes, the southeast quadrant of College Station complies with AASHTO standards and we have good north / south flow.

My $.02

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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I don't like how Rock Prairie bends southward, it looks like the original idea for Rock Prairie was mostly a north-south road but decades ago the city decided to envision Rock Prairie Road as east-west, originally running from Highway 6 to Victoria (it didn't even reach FM 2154 for another decade after construction).

Could the power line right of way be widened used to create a roadway? Like if Rock Prairie Road (east of the highway) was re-aligned to follow it, it could take a lot of local traffic off Highway 6, connecting to University Drive East as well as Raintree, Windwood, Horse Haven, and Foxfire, without cutting through those neighborhoods directly. Maybe Raintree would be most affected but it wouldn't have to rip through neighborhoods. Emerald Parkway maybe, but the road wouldn't be physically affected.

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Bob Yancy said:

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PS3D said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

PS3D said:

---

I wrote something in regards to this in October but I didn't get any replies so I'll rework it:

When it comes to city growth and housing, we can argue all day about density and "stealth dorms" but when it comes to actually expanding and building roads to make the city work, people absolutely lose it.

Bryan-College Station expands north to south rather than east to west, much like Austin, and also much like Austin the road network stinks. There's only a few major roads that go north-south (like Texas Avenue) but the rest of the city is composed of mostly-useless two lane roads (with bike lanes and turning lanes) that go nowhere, and every time a road expansion comes up, either someone complains or drops the ball. The South Holleman/Rock Prairie stoplight was designed to have two lanes in each direction from Rock Prairie Road West, but then the city cheaped out on it, didn't widen it to four lanes (also creating a potentially dangerous situation where cars merge just after the General Parkway turnoff), and a mess of multiple missed opportunities I'm not particularly optimistic, made even worse by the fact that there are now multiple patches of concrete where they had to dig things out again and do utility work all across the expansion.

Put simply, we need to have a grid of 4+ lane roads going north/south and east/west that completely connect to as many areas as possible. Every time we have an opportunity to make a major road project, someone always, always complains, and then the city backs down every time, or just sleeps on what would be a good opportunity. For example, at various points, Dexter Drive was to be widened to four lanes or Munson to six, but even when a window of opportunity comes open the City doesn't grasp it. For instance, a plan decades ago to connect Houston Street to Welsh was killed, and instead of the two lanes + turn lane + bike path all the way to campus (which would be a great relief point for Wellborn and Texas Avenue) Welsh Avenue peters out two blocks away from George Bush Drive.

However, about 10-15 years ago most of the rental homes on Welsh north of Holleman were being torn down and rebuilt, the City of College Station missed a golden opportunity to go ahead and widen Welsh all the way to campus and provide a relief outlet for Wellborn and Texas Avenue...or when Rock Prairie Elementary School was up for renovation there should have at least been an alternative to completely rebuild the school to allow for a re-routing of Welsh Avenue and eliminating the stoplight while completely re-imagining the ingress/egress of the school.

There needs to be a complete four-lane avenue on the east side of the city--Highway 6 grinds to a halt during rush hour because it is forced to do double-duty as a local avenue and an inter-city highway. There's just no other alternatives, not even Dartmouth, which lost its extra lanes around 2015-2016 (and a planned connection to Brothers still waits).

The biggest impediment to traffic flow is going to be Texas A&M University, roads have to go around it, instead of through it (with the exception of Wellborn Road). I know there's talk of sinking University Drive to connect better with Northgate, but I also think that there needs to be a north-south connection as well. Imagine, if you will, instead of College Avenue going into campus, entering a tunnel that goes underneath Main Campus and emerging as a connection to Anderson. It wouldn't be a panacea for traffic but it could take load off of Texas Avenue and Wellborn.

The other thing that College Station needs to do is work with Bryan. Years ago, I was frustrated how College Main was turned into a nice little street on the Bryan side, adding bike lanes, sidewalks, and so forth, while the College Station side abruptly dead-ended in an alley. Meanwhile, Bryan has its own issues, ruining Finfeather and WJB, among others.

There NEEDS to be a north-south road east of the highway that actually goes somewhere, but as we can see with the Pebble Creek crowd and the East Loop crowd I don't see that happening. A few people with a lot of money can make a big difference.

---

I agree with a good portion of what you've written. What I like about your approach is you're obviously not a "process person." You get into the weeds on details that matter, and apparently would be willing to make adjustments on the fly.

Unfortunately, we have a ton of "processes" and it's hard to do that.

I disagree with you on Pebble though. We have Rock Prairie as a 4 lane arterial running generally north south, we have Pebble as a neighborhood collector, we have Lakeway (if we upclassify it as we should) making Midtown/Lakeway north / south as an arterial, and we have the freeway and its frontage roads.

With those changes, the southeast quadrant of College Station complies with AASHTO standards and we have good north / south flow.

My $.02

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

I don't like how Rock Prairie bends southward, it looks like the original idea for Rock Prairie was mostly a north-south road but decades ago the city decided to envision Rock Prairie Road as east-west, originally running from Highway 6 to Victoria (it didn't even reach FM 2154 for another decade after construction).

Could the power line right of way be widened used to create a roadway? Like if Rock Prairie Road (east of the highway) was re-aligned to follow it, it could take a lot of local traffic off Highway 6, connecting to University Drive East as well as Raintree, Windwood, Horse Haven, and Foxfire, without cutting through those neighborhoods directly. Maybe Raintree would be most affected but it wouldn't have to rip through neighborhoods. Emerald Parkway maybe, but the road wouldn't be physically affected.

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I'll look this evening. Midtown/Lakeway needs to be one name and should've been designed to extend further, creating a nice elongated commercial corridor between it and the highway.

"Backage" roads like that do extremely well in traffic flow, commercial development, and separating neighborhoods from commercial.

They create a second "front door" for commerocal, give businesses rear access, delivery separation, and cross-access between adjacent lots without customers having to re-enter the arterial. It drives higher land utilization and often higher values.

And routing cut-through traffic onto the backage road makes residential streets stay residential. Buffers commercial and through-traffic friction so neighborhoods don't have to.

Midtown/Lakeway is a crucial road. That's going to be a neat area.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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AggiePhil said:

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We need to kill the name Lakeway. It's dumb. There is no lake. Just name it all Midtown.

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UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Off subject, what is the status of SE Park/Texas Independence Park?

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UhOhNoAgTag said:

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What hasn't been "pushed down the road""?

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