Simply put, I don't trust our local government to pull off something like this.

dubi said:

---

Remember we could not even keep United airlines flying into our little city.

How will you get 5,000 conference attendees in/out of town on the 3 small American flights?

---

80% of Texas' population lives within a 3 hour drive and;
In traffic it takes longer to get from Ohare to McCormick Center in Chicago than it does to drive from Bush to College Station. If you read the study they address both issues.

All that said Craig is right. We can't afford it going alone. It would be very doable with funding partners and the private sector.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

In your previous post it seems you agree that this was a pre-programmed study that y'all used to justify the CC, correct? There was no doubt as to the outcome of the recommendation...

Craig Regan 14 said:

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I am getting really tired of this... you want feasibility? You want to cut to the chase.. fine




How budget has increased by by $230,000,000 in 4 years.

How debt payments have increased even beyond the est.




please stop the 'gaslighting'

The city budget has exploded.

You want to help the economy? You want to help our local area?

then STOP TAKING MONEY OUT OF THE ECONOMY TO SPEND ON STUPID CRAP.

The city already took $36,000,000 OUT of the economy to spend on a failed ballpark.

-------

This is not about this rec center or that conf center... it is about the fundamentals.

If you want to boost the economy than keep money IN IT! That is what I mean when I say poor management.
For a city that DEPENDS on people spending their extra dollars to GEN sales tax rev and lower the dependence on property tax ( balancing scales) you would think council would be fighting for that. But no, it is fighting for something that there is ZERO public support for.

my leg is wet but it ain't raining

---

Capital budget has gone up dramatically. Stipulated, Navy. That's why I opposed the rec center and "start over from scratch" Public Works facility.

The water wells hurt badly, and the engineering piece for those seemed outrageous- but we are advised that the water wells are crucial. I think water caught everyone off guard not just CSTX.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

Respectfully

techno-ag said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Nobody will do that. Nobody. Leave out the attendees. The committee hosting the conference would get roasted.

You seriously cannot expect someone from out of state to attend a conference where they fly to IAH, get a rent car for 2-3 days, drive it 90 miles on roads they do not know to a conference where they will park the car (where it will be charged parking for 2-3 days) and then drive back those 90 miles to catch an flight.

The conference host selection committee would bypass this option before the possible host city could say "why?"

---

Talking Texans not out of staters necessarily. There's a need for state orgs to meet and we're in the middle of the state.

---

And you think that need is enough to justify this? It's not.

If there's demand for this, let the private sector fill it. The city is not capable of making rational decisions when it comes to things like this.

ElephantRider said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Mathguy64 said:

---

Nobody will do that. Nobody. Leave out the attendees. The committee hosting the conference would get roasted.

You seriously cannot expect someone from out of state to attend a conference where they fly to IAH, get a rent car for 2-3 days, drive it 90 miles on roads they do not know to a conference where they will park the car (where it will be charged parking for 2-3 days) and then drive back those 90 miles to catch an flight.

The conference host selection committee would bypass this option before the possible host city could say "why?"

---

Talking Texans not out of staters necessarily. There's a need for state orgs to meet and we're in the middle of the state.

---

And you think that need is enough to justify this? It's not.

If there's demand for this, let the private sector fill it. The city is not capable of making rational decisions when it comes to things like this.

---

Hey I'm right here, man. ;-)

Respectfully

Yancy '95

It's a little hard to believe that you're pushing this while Macy's is still fresh on everyone's minds. Why would anyone support the city spending large amounts of money right now?

techno-ag said:

---

Mathguy64 said:

---

Nobody will do that. Nobody. Leave out the attendees. The committee hosting the conference would get roasted.

You seriously cannot expect someone from out of state to attend a conference where they fly to IAH, get a rent car for 2-3 days, drive it 90 miles on roads they do not know to a conference where they will park the car (where it will be charged parking for 2-3 days) and then drive back those 90 miles to catch an flight.

The conference host selection committee would bypass this option before the possible host city could say "why?"

---

Talking Texans not out of staters necessarily. There's a need for state orgs to meet and we're in the middle of the state.

---

So we should build a convention center with public money to try to get conventions from other Texas public entities that will be spending public money to send their people here???

Taxes spent to get more taxes spent.

Bob, the one response you earlier in response to the comment that we will never get a 5000 person Convention center where you said "we will never know if we never have a convention center" (paraphrased) is what is worrisome.

That is not good logic. It's along the lines of "if we build it, we HOPE they will come". This ain't field of dreams.

The study done was by a consulting company that has conflict of interest that is telling you what you want to hear as they can't get more business from the city if they come back with the obvious answer of "what the heck are you guys in College Station smoking??"

Bob Yancy said:

---

dubi said:

---

Remember we could not even keep United airlines flying into our little city.

How will you get 5,000 conference attendees in/out of town on the 3 small American flights?

---

80% of Texas' population lives within a 3 hour drive and;
In traffic it takes longer to get from Ohare to McCormick Center in Chicago than it does to drive from Bush to College Station. If you read the study they address both issues.

All that said Craig is right. We can't afford it going alone. It would be very doable with funding partners and the private sector.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

There's fun "Dave and Buster's" type places near McCormick Center. We could have had that, but the city wanted a rec center.

ElephantRider said:

---

It's a little hard to believe that you're pushing this while Macy's is still fresh on everyone's minds. Why would anyone support the city spending large amounts of money right now?

---

To reiterate, I do not support the city going it alone. I think a centrally located events center, perhaps in the greenfield space at the corner of Texas and University where it would inarguably benefit the cities and the university and the county would work? Or at the perimeter tract of Hensel Park which isn't planned for renovation, or on the east side off of University, or on the west side closer to the airport- any number of shared city limit line locations would work.

Blinn, BISD and CSISD could be limited funding partners, with the cities, county and the university sharing a larger portion. Finally, strong branding rights and private sector partner(s) would make it both transformative and affordable for our community.

Even Regan would admit a joint bond referendum, if the citizens approved, would yield a very low rate. There's even a chance with all of us pulling the wagon, debt issuance could be mitigated drastically or perhaps even eliminated.

But, it would require visionary leadership. It would require everyone checking their turf and counterproductive sense of competition at the door. We've done it before.

We would have to come together and recognize the proms, graduations, weddings, concerts large and small, family entertainment shows like Jurassic World and the Lego Brickyard exhibitions, the higher education symposiums, economic summits, public and private regional and national trade shows, association business and more that it would bring.

It would be absolutely transformative for Aggieland. The "Aggie Events Center" would be a game changer. But- it would take the broadest community support behind a single project we've ever had in our history.

Do we have that level of vision and cooperation in us? Maybe so, maybe no. Hope springs eternal.

PS: the Macy's situation had the best of intentions but wasn't thought through. It wasn't taken to the citizens properly, which gave rise to more frustration and suspicion among everyone, including me. Because of that, no matter what we do now we'll likely never live it down. From a leadership perspective, I'm unfamiliar with being associated with poor decision-making made in back rooms. It will not happen again- and I formally apologize to the taxpayers.

But a potential convention center is a different project. You will have total transparency and ample opportunity to express support or opposition if WE, not just CSTX, pursue it.

One day, this community WILL have a large scale Events Center we can be proud of. That's a fact. The only question is…when?

Respectfully

Yancy '95

AgProgrammer said:

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Brian Alg said:

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Name one municipally owned and operated convention center, ideally one in a similarly situated city like Waco or something, that you believe is well run and an exemplar of what you want College Station to build.

---

Arlington Convention Center, Frisco Conference Center, Galveston Convention Center, Irving Convention Center, Lubbock Convention Center, Hot Springs, AR Convention Center.

I mean, it's not like this is some kind of novelty idea for a city owned convention center.

---

I asked for just one because I don't want to analyze 6+ projects. Is the first one, I am guessing you mean the new one finished in 2024, an example of what you think the city should pursue?

Well said!

Quote:

---

Blinn, BISD and CSISD could be limited funding partner firms, with the cities and the university sharing a larger portion would be optimal. Finally, strong branding rights and a private sector partner(s) would make it both transformative and affordable for our community.

---

The state legislature has already tentatively cut A&M's budget 50 million. The Feds DOGE cuts likely will hit hard on research; indirect cost alone will likely be reduced by many millions. It might not be prudent for A&M to commit to a partnership in a convention center.

CSISD and BISD do not need a convention center to teach our children. CSISD debt service is already $3k per student for FY2025.

Again, who has millions freely available to contribute to a convention center?

CoCS, CoB, CSISD, BISD, and the County…a real dream team of sound financial decision-making.

ElephantRider said:

---

CoCS, CoB, CSISD, BISD, and the County…a real dream team of sound financial decision-making.

---

And my beloved Alma mater.

Bob Yancy said:

---

ElephantRider said:

---

CoCS, CoB, CSISD, BISD, and the County…a real dream team of sound financial decision-making.

---

And my beloved Alma mater.

---

<insert herding cats commercial here>

Every entity has their own agenda, and the history of working together is not stellar.

I salute you for trying, señor. I would have come and shook your hand Thursday, but I didn't know if it was appropriate before the council meeting.

Hornbeck said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

ElephantRider said:

---

CoCS, CoB, CSISD, BISD, and the County…a real dream team of sound financial decision-making.

---

And my beloved Alma mater.

---

<insert herding cats commercial here>

Every entity has their own agenda, and the history of working together is not stellar.

I salute you for trying, señor. I would have come and shook your hand Thursday, but I didn't know if it was appropriate before the council meeting.

---

Of course it is! Anytime! And I'm just floating an idea. Nothing more, nothing less.

Have a good evening.

Gotta agree to disagree here - respectfully (in fact I don't think we actually disagree here)

Brazos water district keep running 5 year windows on water needs

Anyone who was thinking past 1st base would know it is cheaper to secure water rights ASAP.

This has been what I have been trying to get across. Fundamentals - basics


Keeping an eye on that 5 year window and then seeing people buying up water permits like it was going outta style. I would even defend the city in litigation (if it came to that) to secure the water we need(ed).

Everyone saw inflation 4 years ago and knew the trend lines. Digging with and securing materials sooner means we save money later.

Every construction company I have ever worked with knows this. It opens profit margin windows further down the line when prices are volatile.

I mean, just basic stuff

Yes - if it went to a vote WITH ALL THE INFORMATION that voters needed to make an informed choice - I would support it.

I'm not arguing about a bond REF. I'm arguing the manner and means by which we get to point where the council wants a bond to begin with.

I handled a lot of logistics in my life and can tell you - if you want to find the source of an issue … you usually have to go "upriver" - in this case upriver from the point of voting to the means how we go to it and what we did to get there.

FLY NAVY

Craig Regan 14 said:

---

Yes - if it went to a vote WITH ALL THE INFORMATION that voters needed to make an informed choice - I would support it.

I'm not arguing about a bond REF. I'm arguing the manner and means by which we get to point where the council wants a bond to begin with.

I handled a lot of logistics in my life and can tell you - if you want to find the source of an issue … you usually have to go "upriver" - in this case upriver from the point of voting to the means how we go to it and what we did to get there.

FLY NAVY

---

More than fair. This old man is going to bed. Fly, fight, win!

Respectfully

Yancy '95

I think step 1 before any new convention center would be facilitating travel to the area.

You can't expect it to be very viable with only being attractive to more regional conferences and less national because there is no airport to support a more national presence.

I just don't think we have any viability until we can get around the mobility of getting conferencee's to their conference. Maybe that's a stop here on the bullet train. Maybe that's black mailing delta and United to fly more flights into here. Maybe it's working with a charter flight company to help.

But I don't think we go at it with a plan to be more regional where folks drive, that already limits our potential customers. Conferences want walkability. They want Ubers to take them 5 minutes down the road. We don't have the infrastructure here for that. Your best bet would be somewhere on university with some hotels right there. But that land is expensive, likely not enough and still doesn't solve the bigger issues of getting folks here.

Bob Yancy said:

---

ElephantRider said:

---

It's a little hard to believe that you're pushing this while Macy's is still fresh on everyone's minds. Why would anyone support the city spending large amounts of money right now?

---

To reiterate, I do not support the city going it alone. I think a centrally located events center, perhaps in the greenfield space at the corner of Texas and University where it would inarguably benefit the cities and the university and the county would work? Or at the perimeter tract of Hensel Park which isn't planned for renovation, or on the east side off of University, or on the west side closer to the airport- any number of shared city limit line locations would work.

Blinn, BISD and CSISD could be limited funding partners, with the cities, county and the university sharing a larger portion. Finally, strong branding rights and private sector partner(s) would make it both transformative and affordable for our community.

Even Regan would admit a joint bond referendum, if the citizens approved, would yield a very low rate. There's even a chance with all of us pulling the wagon, debt issuance could be mitigated drastically or perhaps even eliminated.

But, it would require visionary leadership. It would require everyone checking their turf and counterproductive sense of competition at the door. We've done it before.

We would have to come together and recognize the proms, graduations, weddings, concerts large and small, family entertainment shows like Jurassic World and the Lego Brickyard exhibitions, the higher education symposiums, economic summits, public and private regional and national trade shows, association business and more that it would bring.

It would be absolutely transformative for Aggieland. The "Aggie Events Center" would be a game changer. But- it would take the broadest community support behind a single project we've ever had in our history.

Do we have that level of vision and cooperation in us? Maybe so, maybe no. Hope springs eternal.

PS: the Macy's situation had the best of intentions but wasn't thought through. It wasn't taken to the citizens properly, which gave rise to more frustration and suspicion among everyone, including me. Because of that, no matter what we do now we'll likely never live it down. From a leadership perspective, I'm unfamiliar with being associated with poor decision-making made in back rooms. It will not happen again- and I formally apologize to the taxpayers.

But a potential convention center is a different project. You will have total transparency and ample opportunity to express support or opposition if WE, not just CSTX, pursue it.

One day, this community WILL have a large scale Events Center we can be proud of. That's a fact. The only question is…when?

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

"But a potential convention center is a different project. You will have total transparency and ample opportunity to express support or opposition if WE, not just CSTX, pursue it"

If WE pursue it, we should have the ability to vote for it to go forward or to be terminated.

To me with the growth of Texas A&M and the people that come here for many, many events on campus not sports related, the growth of the number of corporations locating in Brazos County, and in addition, the number of former student who are either retiring here or moving here for jobs, what is the vital need for a convention center?

Is it just because other cities of similar size have one?

Some of these other cities mentioned don't have a University with a 2.6 billion dollar budget, 75,000 students paying rents and eat in restaurants, and 20,000+ faculty, staff and their families spending money in the community.

Again, what is the vital need for a convention center?

It appears that we have traffic issues on most every major street in the area now and the city is growing at about a 28% rate now. Do we really need to add to that?

I personally think that we need to spend our tax monies and city efforts in areas that serve the existing citizens and those moving here for employment or retiring and not to increase pressure on our infrastructure. Maybe look at a public/private large indoor/outdoor waterpark? If Brenham can have one, we should be able to also.

A waterpark would be used 365 days of the year by taxpaper' families, .a convention center...twice a month maybe? Do we actually have any indoor swimming pools that people can use?

I'm not against spending money. The baseball park sounds possibly viable as it would be used by townspersons weekly. The convention center probably won't be visited once a year by 2% of the residents.

The efforts of city council should be targeted to serving the citizens. Except for a handful of part-time jobs, I don't see the convention center increasing the quality of life of the citizens of our city.

Would it? And how?

Yep. That's what I've been thinking.
We are already partially pregnant with Macys.
Buy the whole darn thing and make it the convention center.

Buford T. Justice said:

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Yep. That's what I've been thinking.
We are already partially pregnant with Macys.
Buy the whole darn thing and make it the convention center.

---

The city doesn't even have to buy the whole thing. Existing owners can revamp or sell to an entity willing to redevelop in support of the convention center. Hotel, dining, retail, entertainment.

tu ag said:

---

In your previous post it seems you agree that this was a pre-programmed study that y'all used to justify the CC, correct? There was no doubt as to the outcome of the recommendation...

---

Still not addressed...

tu ag said:

---

tu ag said:

---

In your previous post it seems you agree that this was a pre-programmed study that y'all used to justify the CC, correct? There was no doubt as to the outcome of the recommendation...

---

Still not addressed...

---

I disagree in this instance. You are correct that in many cases likely pre-ordained outcomes are baked into these studies. Over my objection, we approved one recently for the potential new Public Works compound. The same vendor doing the demand analysis, pre-programming and potential site selection, is the same vendor that gets the whole contract whatever we choose. Therefore, if they recommend we renovate the existing site and say, add a new maintenance building where we can do indoor maintenance on a fire engine, they might administer an $8m or so project. But, if they find we need to start over on another site, they are now doing a $40m project. Which would you rather do as a private business contracting with a city?

But, in the case of Hunden on this events center study, their scope was very limited under a finite contract with no guaranteed goodies should they recommend we move forward.

Two very different engagements. One makes sense, the other doesn't.

Additionally, Hunden's findings closely mirror my own. So I trust the study more than I otherwise would. ;-)

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Good discussion, pros and cons on both sides. That said, I haven't seen much discussion nor coverage in the consultant study about the existing infrastructure at Texas A&M that undercuts a big chunk of the need for a new convention center. The A&M hotel conference Center plus Kyle Field can handle a lot of mid-range conference needs. It. Can't handle them all, and is not available year round, but I have to think it would severely undercut the revenue of a standalone convention center.

BCS-Ag said:

---

Good discussion, pros and cons on both sides. That said, I haven't seen much discussion nor coverage in the consultant study about the existing infrastructure at Texas A&M that undercuts a big chunk of the need for a new convention center. The A&M hotel conference Center plus Kyle Field can handle a lot of mid-range conference needs. It. Can't handle them all, and is not available year round, but I have to think it would severely undercut the revenue of a standalone convention center.

---

this^ x 1000

The local market has become awash in SQ to host an 'event'. Have you seen the space created right in front of city hall. What is the OCCUP percentage of that space?

Again, and i know I sound annoying at this point

But it is the metrics and means by which we get to a point of wanting to do _______.

That is what is broken. It is the policy, study, ordinance (whatever you want to call it).

----------

"we have heard this before" - yes because that is the cause of all of these.

We didnt do a study before we wanted a REC center - we did one AFTER we bought a space for it and the study says - SHOCK - that what we bought is awesome for it.

this is what I have called a lack of "administrative excellence". This puts us into a box that pushes bad ideas forward and leaves out good ones.

Otherwise known as 'confirmation bias'

BCS-Ag said:

---

Good discussion, pros and cons on both sides. That said, I haven't seen much discussion nor coverage in the consultant study about the existing infrastructure at Texas A&M that undercuts a big chunk of the need for a new convention center. The A&M hotel conference Center plus Kyle Field can handle a lot of mid-range conference needs. It. Can't handle them all, and is not available year round, but I have to think it would severely undercut the revenue of a standalone convention center.

---

The study says if Texas A&M opened their doors, the need would be mitigated significantly. I highly recommend reading it. It's thorough and compelling.

For a variety of reasons, not all am I privy to, they aren't doing that. Most of Texas A&M's inventory are purpose built facilities. Their personnel are institutionalized to fulfill those purposes, be they sports events or graduations.

They could open the doors much wider, but because of the aforementioned reasons and others I am not informed on, they are having challenges doing so- this even though the cities and county have a shared access agreement in place in return for us helping with funding the Kyle Field renovation.

I used to complain about that a lot from the dais, but I temper that criticism now given my Alma mater's recent decision to generously support fire services provided by CSTX. (Which I also was a squeaky wheel about)

They didn't have to do that, but they recognized what's fair and stepped up in a great example of town & gown cooperation for public safety. Bravo and much obliged. I thank them heartily.

Bottom line is there isn't any facility in their inventory that will support a convention of 3,000 people with trade booth exhibits and breakout session rooms.

This is all one chapter of the migraine inducing research I've already done and now Hunden, too.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Sadly none of this matters. Remember when the school stuff got voted no? Then they had another vote at an off peak time and it passed.

Correct. They get an idea they are going to keep asking for permission enough times and in enough ways they will eventually get it "approved".

I for one am happy that Bob is "doing the research", and even coming in here to get our opinion. There have been several councils, and some that are in there now, that don't bother to do the research, and we get Chimney Hill (also purchased for a convention center), Texas Independence Ballpark (in honor of Texas Independence Day today), and the Esports arena at Post Oak Mall.

This "ready, fire, aim" approach ain't working.

Do I disagree with needing a convention center? Yes. We don't have the amenities ancillary to a really good conference, and bear in mind, I go to a couple industry conventions a year (IT/Cyber) and an annual Sales Kickoff for my company. Therefore, I think we won't get any really good large conferences.

Hornbeck said:

---

I for one am happy that Bob is "doing the research", and even coming in here to get our opinion. There have been several councils, and some that are in there now, that don't bother to do the research, and we get Chimney Hill (also purchased for a convention center), Texas Independence Ballpark (in honor or Texas Independence Day today), and the Esports arena at Post Oak Mall.

This "ready, fire, aim" approach ain't working.

Do I disagree with needing a convention center? Yes. We don't have the amenities ancillary to a really good conference, and bear in mind, I go to a couple industry conventions a year (IT/Cyber) and an annual Sales Kickoff for my company. Therefore, I think we won't get any really good large conferences.

---

Thanks for the feedback and kind words. I'll take it.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Hornbeck said:

---

I for one am happy that Bob is "doing the research", and even coming in here to get our opinion. There have been several councils, and some that are in there now, that don't bother to do the research, and we get Chimney Hill (also purchased for a convention center), Texas Independence Ballpark (in honor or Texas Independence Day today), and the Esports arena at Post Oak Mall.

This "ready, fire, aim" approach ain't working.

Do I disagree with needing a convention center? Yes. We don't have the amenities ancillary to a really good conference, and bear in mind, I go to a couple industry conventions a year (IT/Cyber) and an annual Sales Kickoff for my company. Therefore, I think we won't get any really good large conferences.

---

I agree totally. During my career I went to one to two large conferences for over a thirty year period and managed a dozen or more and all had external offerings to the attendees and families.

For examples, the Texas Forestry Association which I assisted in planning for years met many, many times at the Galveston Island Convention Center at The San Luis Resort in Galveston as much to do with the afterhours options as the programs. The Forest Products Association met in San Antonio for the same reason. Both had from 2,000 to 4,000 attendees at their annual conferences.

With our offerings, I don't see us being very successful, but maybe I would be surprised.

I just hope we don't spend a lot of the city's money (which is ours) on it's construction and operations.

I would be all in if a private entity built in and operated it on city property.