I agree with you on all of this, but I would add that progress doesn't have to look just one way. We can grow without becoming the same generic cityscape that many of us actively chose to avoid by moving here or not moving away.KC_Ag14 said:TxFig said:Hornbeck said:
Everyone wants Trader Joe's, Waffle House, and Buc-ee's. What will bring them is growth.
I don't.
After graduating from TAMU (in 1987), I turned down several job offers in Dallas, Houston, Austin & other major cities and chose to stay here BECAUSE this was a small town with a strong rural atmosphere. I do not want growth. I do not want new businesses moving here. I don't want migrants from big cities or Kalifornia moving here.
Those businesses you mention - as well as virtually ALL of the businesses that come in with new development - are owned by people who do not live here. This HURTS local businesses. It absolutely baffles me that the BCS Chamber of Commerce recruits businesses to move here. Nor does bringing in outside businesses help employment (this area already has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation).
We need to protect rural, undeveloped property. They ain't making any more of it. Once a farm or ranch is paved over and developed, it is gone forever.
Don't Austin my BCS.
It is really hard to translate respect through a message board, but I hope you know I respond with the utmost. 1987 was almost 40 years ago. This is not anywhere close to the same B/CS, not even close to the same Texas, and hasn't been for a while. Aggieland and Texas are going to remain in the crosshairs of growth. Texas is about to become the 7th largest economy in the world. Our state policies towards business, taxes, and innovation will continue to exacerbate growth. Harsh reality, but it's coming whether we like it or not. The big and very tough decisions about the future of this area (like the Loop) simply cannot take into account the desires of today more so than the genuine needs of tomorrow. Sorry it isn't the same place you choose to stay way back then, sometimes I wish it was still that way too, but the only thing constant in our world is change. Still plenty of great places not far from here for you to see the stars. God bless!
Inner East Loop video [Staff Warning on OP]
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Last: 3 days ago by Smeghead4761
The issue is that when private industry and developers are buying the lots, and building out the cityscape, they do it similar to the way that they did it in XYZ City. That's how we get to cookie-cutter urban areas like in Houston, Austin, DFW, etc.
The alternative is the cities buying up properties, and trying to dictate what will go in there (see Macy's and the Northgate parking lot)
The alternative is the cities buying up properties, and trying to dictate what will go in there (see Macy's and the Northgate parking lot)
There are people who purchased homes in the footprint of the loop without being given that prior information by the realtor or builder.
I don't think it's necessary to obliterate entire neighborhoods in order to get a Trader Joe's or Waffle House on Texas Avenue.Hornbeck said:
So, I would caution local officials to not fall into the same trap that Austin did years ago. The area will continue to grow as prices remain high for housing, and this is a desirable place to live.
If those folks want to continue their rural lifestyle, surely there's property in Grimes County or Robertson County available? Sell at a substantial profit, and relocate.
With the growth, if we do not put in the infrastructure, one day, we'll wake up, and have a nightmare on our hands.
Everyone wants Trader Joe's, Waffle House, and Buc-ee's. What will bring them is growth.
Both 6 and 30 (Harvey RD) are state highways which are funded by state and federal taxes. Neither city has anything to do with funding them or their repairs.
Uh yeah. About that 59-90% growth.
https://www.kbtx.com/2025/02/14/30-less-first-time-homebuyers-housing-market-changes-hit-bryan-college-station-realtors/
https://www.kbtx.com/2025/02/14/30-less-first-time-homebuyers-housing-market-changes-hit-bryan-college-station-realtors/
Vae Victis
Yeah, that's really cutting down on all the old Ag retirees moving in.
Interesting. I guess it is anecdotal but the majority of people I am working with currently and busier than ever are first time home buyers and unphased by the interest rates and prices.Nealthedestroyer said:
Uh yeah. About that 59-90% growth.
https://www.kbtx.com/2025/02/14/30-less-first-time-homebuyers-housing-market-changes-hit-bryan-college-station-realtors/
I highly respect the agents quoted in that article, believe me, but I'm surprised they are having such different experiences.
Regardless, screw this east loop nonsense. I doubt I have anything to worry about given the efficiency of governments at all levels, but it's still an annoying thought nonetheless and I definitely have a neighbor that said he's off to another continent if our area gets wiped out by this bullsh.
29 minute mark and just past it with a befuddled response and "We're getting off topic" when asked a legitimate question is all you need to know about what a slimeball process this thing is. Par for the course.
"I think it's important that misinformation must be stopped. Every penny is accounted for." -Irma Cauley. No surprise what letter went next to her name.
When is the next of one these meetings?
"I think it's important that misinformation must be stopped. Every penny is accounted for." -Irma Cauley. No surprise what letter went next to her name.
When is the next of one these meetings?
All those folks at the 29 minute mark are elected.
You want to change the project? Get rid of Peters, Berry, Konderla, etc.
If you own acreage out there, nobody is forcing you to sell it, unless you're in the right of way for the road. If you're not in the right of way, you can keep your acreage, but the taxes will likely go up unless you have an Ag exemption.
I'd imagine selling to a developer for a subdivision would net a fair amount of money.
You want to change the project? Get rid of Peters, Berry, Konderla, etc.
If you own acreage out there, nobody is forcing you to sell it, unless you're in the right of way for the road. If you're not in the right of way, you can keep your acreage, but the taxes will likely go up unless you have an Ag exemption.
I'd imagine selling to a developer for a subdivision would net a fair amount of money.
Out of curiousity, does anyone know if this map is still current?
https://bcsmpo.org/DocumentCenter/View/196/Revised-Approved-Full-Size-Final-2050-MPO-Thoroughfare-Concept-06272017?bidId=
The map shows rough paths for both the inner (purple) and outer (blue) proposed east loops.
https://bcsmpo.org/DocumentCenter/View/196/Revised-Approved-Full-Size-Final-2050-MPO-Thoroughfare-Concept-06272017?bidId=
The map shows rough paths for both the inner (purple) and outer (blue) proposed east loops.
Tuesday's at 10am. Hard for working tax payers to show up to.
Vae Victis
maroon barchetta said:
Why would TAMU want Olsen or Bizzell to be thoroughfares?
Almost all of the roads on campus used to be through at some point in time. The university of course doesn't want Olsen or Bizzell to be used as thoroughfares (making changes that makes them impractical), but they SHOULD be. Unfortunately, there's not much that can be done about it.
histag10 said:
So because the city folk vetoed widening roads in town, us country folk (who, arguably, pay more than our fair share of taxes) should bend over and take it in the ass? We should just sell our land and move elsewhere, and be happy with it?
No. I didn't buy in town because I didn't want to be in town. I didn't buy 20 miles from town so I could sell my land to build subdivisions.
Why should I bend over and take it so someone else cam be pleased with themselves?
#noeastloop
That's not what I'm saying (and I'm not arguing this from a city vs. non-city standpoint either), I'm saying that you shouldn't just try to block it and create more problems down the line like residents of College Station-Bryan did years ago (I'm not sure about Bryan's proposed ideas about major throroughfares over the years), because sooner or later, someone's going to be holding the bag.
The question is do you have any better ideas. You could argue "no East Loop, but extend Merka Drive to US-21 East, align Merka and Steep Hollow, and take out some of Steep Hollow's curves", creating a viable north-south road without cutting through too many areas.
[Thank you for editing the quote. -Staff]
Hornbeck said:
So, I would caution local officials to not fall into the same trap that Austin did years ago. The area will continue to grow as prices remain high for housing, and this is a desirable place to live.
If those folks want to continue their rural lifestyle, surely there's property in Grimes County or Robertson County available? Sell at a substantial profit, and relocate.
With the growth, if we do not put in the infrastructure, one day, we'll wake up, and have a nightmare on our hands.
Everyone wants Trader Joe's, Waffle House, and Buc-ee's. What will bring them is growth.
I have thought a lot about your comment, and I agree, however, at some point with growth, you have to address mobility. With your comments about Austin, what they didn't do is address mobility, if people are coming here, you better address it. Unfortunately, the College Station you grew up in and love, is not the College Station that will be the same in 20 years, that isn't reality, and that is the issue that Austin has faced…you simply can't ignore mobility and development, because you want it the way it was before, those days are gone.
If they do put an east loop in, they need to go as far east as they economically can an do their best to affect the lowest number of homeowners and confiscate a minimum number of acres. Also, make it have very limited number of access points so that there is no commercial stores and other development built on every corner of every cross street.
Do it once so it's a bypass for a number of decades.
Do it once so it's a bypass for a number of decades.
A bypass of the bypass?
woodiewood said:
If they do put an east loop in, they need to go as far east as they economically can an do their best to affect the lowest number of homeowners and confiscate a minimum number of acres. Also, make it have very limited number of access points so that there is no commercial stores and other development built on every corner of every cross street.
Do it once so it's a bypass for a number of decades.
It's called Loop I-214.
Roughly parallel to FM2038.
It will have a higher priority for Federal and State funding than East Loop FM2818.
13B said:
I live on 200 acres with more than 2-3 cows on it. The property has been in my family for over 100 years. I grew up out here when my closest neighbor was a cousin a mile down the road. So yeah, I'd like to protect my rural lifestyle. That road isn't going to do jack squat to alleviate traffic. Why would anyone take that loop if they expand 6? 11 million dollars have been wasted and the results of that money for research would've had a better outcome if they blindfolded a drunk and let them throw darts at a map to make the route. What skin do you have in the game? Like others on here, I don't need B/CS to grow anymore. You want a big city? Move to one.
Seriously though, what's the "get" for me supporting y'all? How about they don't raise or misuse your tax dollars?
The way they initiated this was shady and misleading and it was NOT voted FOR.
As they say, Highway 6 runs both ways. Quite literally, it has increasingly become a big mess as it tries to mix traffic from outside Brazos County and local traffic. It's going to be even messier with the widening project, and at this rate we may be seeing metered ramps come to Highway 6.
Even if it's not a big highway, the eastern part of the county needs something done; there needs to be two major roadways, one carrying through traffic and one carrying local traffic, ideally not too far from each other.
Yes. Hwy 6 on the east side was a bypass of the main street in town at the time it was built.maroon barchetta said:
A bypass of the bypass?
The map I linked to in my previous post does show two loops going east, the outer one of which actually does run along what is now FM 2038 for part of it. Is that what is going to be the I-214 loop?Animal Eight 84 said:woodiewood said:
If they do put an east loop in, they need to go as far east as they economically can an do their best to affect the lowest number of homeowners and confiscate a minimum number of acres. Also, make it have very limited number of access points so that there is no commercial stores and other development built on every corner of every cross street.
Do it once so it's a bypass for a number of decades.
It's called Loop I-214.
Roughly parallel to FM2038.
It will have a higher priority for Federal and State funding than East Loop FM2818.
I was responding to a post that was here this morning but got mysteriously wiped. I saved a few screenshots on my phone, but here's the post anyway without quotes.
The area is growing--that's not going to stop, unfortunately--and there needs to be a new viable north-south route on that side of town. That's not really a topic that can be debated. Frankly, the biggest problem with the east loop as drawn is it incorporates William D. Fitch Parkway, which in its current state from Highway 6 on is not a freeway, and would require significant right-of-way clearances, probably everything from the former Caprock to Pebble Creek Parkway (good thing both Caprock and Zaxby's are already gone, but Stone Forest is a problem).
The big problem I see is that there's no real argument against the East Loop beyond a vague emotional argument. "I want the east bypass to stay rural and keep my giant ranch without tax increases" isn't a compelling argument to voters (especially those who cannot afford a big 10+ acre piece of property) and isn't far removed from "Screw you, that's why" as an argument.
The anti-east loop crowd are setting themselves up for a rude awakening if a real pro-east loop contingent ever gets off the ground, painting the anti-east loop crowd as a bunch of selfish gits who want to cling to an unsustainable situation and offer no real alternative. The opportunity for benefit of the doubt will be gone, and from there on it will be an uphill battle to negate the accusations alone.
As for "benefit of the doubt", the use of tax dollars was mentioned. Are there any better uses of tax dollars that benefit north-south mobility? For example, and I'm just spitballing here, would it actually be cheaper to bite the bullet and link Dartmouth, Munson, and 29th Street as a 4-6 lane avenue that would take pressure off Earl Rudder Freeway and Texas Avenue and lessen the need for the east loop?
The area is growing--that's not going to stop, unfortunately--and there needs to be a new viable north-south route on that side of town. That's not really a topic that can be debated. Frankly, the biggest problem with the east loop as drawn is it incorporates William D. Fitch Parkway, which in its current state from Highway 6 on is not a freeway, and would require significant right-of-way clearances, probably everything from the former Caprock to Pebble Creek Parkway (good thing both Caprock and Zaxby's are already gone, but Stone Forest is a problem).
The big problem I see is that there's no real argument against the East Loop beyond a vague emotional argument. "I want the east bypass to stay rural and keep my giant ranch without tax increases" isn't a compelling argument to voters (especially those who cannot afford a big 10+ acre piece of property) and isn't far removed from "Screw you, that's why" as an argument.
The anti-east loop crowd are setting themselves up for a rude awakening if a real pro-east loop contingent ever gets off the ground, painting the anti-east loop crowd as a bunch of selfish gits who want to cling to an unsustainable situation and offer no real alternative. The opportunity for benefit of the doubt will be gone, and from there on it will be an uphill battle to negate the accusations alone.
As for "benefit of the doubt", the use of tax dollars was mentioned. Are there any better uses of tax dollars that benefit north-south mobility? For example, and I'm just spitballing here, would it actually be cheaper to bite the bullet and link Dartmouth, Munson, and 29th Street as a 4-6 lane avenue that would take pressure off Earl Rudder Freeway and Texas Avenue and lessen the need for the east loop?
Apparently KBTX wants $64k for 5 min of their video that's in the 1 hr YouTube. So watch soon. And wonder if the email to Gray Media will show up in a FOIA.
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No hard hitting journalism, just a bunch of grifters with their hand out.
I'd agree with the first part. Not the second - at least for the reporters. Now their bosses- that may be another story.
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I haven't read all the comments on this thread but here's some deeper info for context and thought. There is a much bigger effort at play here that appears to have gone unnoticed. For whatever reason, our elected officials have been pushing for roadway expansion in the Brazos Valley for quite some time in the name of Economic Development as if organic growth wasn't enough to satisfy their desires.
To that end, they launched an effort to get I-14 to run directly through town and eventually hit Hwy 30 as it continues on to Huntsville, bypassing Madisonville (which was the original route). With minimal effort, you can find audio of many elected officials bemoaning the fact that Brazos County is the largest metro area in the state without an interstate. Search for the I-14 Coalition and look at their board of directors. Also search for IIJA of 2021.
Additionally, many of our elected and appointed officials have spoken in support of the effort to build Hwy 36A which will facilitate increased freight traffic through Brazos County. The City of Freeport is trying to make their port the deepest port on the Gulf (of America) Coast and attract container traffic away from Long Beach; from there it is supposed to be moved up to the Alliance airport NW of Ft Worth. Again, for some reason our city/county leaders see that as a good thing thus their support for the effort. Search for the 36A Coalition.
When these two initiatives become reality 20+ years from now, I agree there will absolutely be more traffic through Brazos County. But, the IIJA of 2021 has already authorized funding for a "loop generally encircling Bryan/College Station, Texas" to be designated as I-214. See HR 3684, pages 596 and 598. So, even if you accept the inflated numbers the county has projected (371,000 by 2045 which includes A&M enrollment at 115,000 students!) isn't one loop around eastern Brazos County sufficient to handle that small population? This outer loop will basically be built on top of FM2038 near the eastern edge of the county as shown on the MPO's thoroughfare plan. Compare that to any other metro area with multiple loops.
The real argument against the Inner East Loop is the fact that it's NOT needed. The county says it's needed for greater north-south connectivity, but if you ask what proof they have to substantiate that claim, they don't respond. Because they don't have any proof. They authorized a major road design project without ever even doing a simple traffic survey and the entire $11m contract to "study" the proposed route is based on our county leader's hunch that "Brazos County is growin' and will probably continue to do so".
If you live on the east side of the county, you know the only real need is for greater east-west throughput and that decreases the further you get away from Hwy 6. The traffic congestion on 6 will be addressed by the widening project that's already in the works and eventually the outer loop.
I live and own land on the east side and I will be directly affected if the loop ever gets built. I can tell you there's nothing going on over here that couldn't be addressed by simply focusing on expanding existing roadways and saving the $600+ million it would cost to build this monstrosity. So yes, I am a NO EAST LOOP guy.
Finally to those of you who say we're being NIMBYs, I ask you to please take the time to do some real research on the project and all the factors involved before you impugn those of us who have worked hard to acquire, build, and protect what we have. The entire county is on the hook for the $11million dollar study contract right now. If the road ever gets built, we'll also be paying that bill too. Is that really where you want your tax dollars spent??
To that end, they launched an effort to get I-14 to run directly through town and eventually hit Hwy 30 as it continues on to Huntsville, bypassing Madisonville (which was the original route). With minimal effort, you can find audio of many elected officials bemoaning the fact that Brazos County is the largest metro area in the state without an interstate. Search for the I-14 Coalition and look at their board of directors. Also search for IIJA of 2021.
Additionally, many of our elected and appointed officials have spoken in support of the effort to build Hwy 36A which will facilitate increased freight traffic through Brazos County. The City of Freeport is trying to make their port the deepest port on the Gulf (of America) Coast and attract container traffic away from Long Beach; from there it is supposed to be moved up to the Alliance airport NW of Ft Worth. Again, for some reason our city/county leaders see that as a good thing thus their support for the effort. Search for the 36A Coalition.
When these two initiatives become reality 20+ years from now, I agree there will absolutely be more traffic through Brazos County. But, the IIJA of 2021 has already authorized funding for a "loop generally encircling Bryan/College Station, Texas" to be designated as I-214. See HR 3684, pages 596 and 598. So, even if you accept the inflated numbers the county has projected (371,000 by 2045 which includes A&M enrollment at 115,000 students!) isn't one loop around eastern Brazos County sufficient to handle that small population? This outer loop will basically be built on top of FM2038 near the eastern edge of the county as shown on the MPO's thoroughfare plan. Compare that to any other metro area with multiple loops.
The real argument against the Inner East Loop is the fact that it's NOT needed. The county says it's needed for greater north-south connectivity, but if you ask what proof they have to substantiate that claim, they don't respond. Because they don't have any proof. They authorized a major road design project without ever even doing a simple traffic survey and the entire $11m contract to "study" the proposed route is based on our county leader's hunch that "Brazos County is growin' and will probably continue to do so".
If you live on the east side of the county, you know the only real need is for greater east-west throughput and that decreases the further you get away from Hwy 6. The traffic congestion on 6 will be addressed by the widening project that's already in the works and eventually the outer loop.
I live and own land on the east side and I will be directly affected if the loop ever gets built. I can tell you there's nothing going on over here that couldn't be addressed by simply focusing on expanding existing roadways and saving the $600+ million it would cost to build this monstrosity. So yes, I am a NO EAST LOOP guy.
Finally to those of you who say we're being NIMBYs, I ask you to please take the time to do some real research on the project and all the factors involved before you impugn those of us who have worked hard to acquire, build, and protect what we have. The entire county is on the hook for the $11million dollar study contract right now. If the road ever gets built, we'll also be paying that bill too. Is that really where you want your tax dollars spent??
What is YOUR proof that the east loop "isn't needed"? That Highway 6 isn't jammed up enough? So you'd be okay with it if studies and surveys were authorized and showed that there was a need for one?EscondidoPolo92 said:
The real argument against the Inner East Loop is the fact that it's NOT needed. The county says it's needed for greater north-south connectivity, but if you ask what proof they have to substantiate that claim, they don't respond. Because they don't have any proof.
The county is growing in population. That's not something you can pretend doesn't exist.Quote:
our county leader's hunch that "Brazos County is growin' and will probably continue to do so".
Quote:
Finally to those of you who say we're being NIMBYs, I ask you to please take the time to do some real research on the project and all the factors involved before you impugn those of us who have worked hard to acquire, build, and protect what we have.
Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet, anyway) but do you know how EASILY that can (and will) be spun into "you live your drudging life dealing with traffic jams and long commute because Mr. Rancher can't lose ten acres of his 200+ acre ranch"?
I don't live in the area that would be affected by an east loop, but you're dismissive attitude towards people that live out there is ignorant. It's also self contradictory.
You're saying Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet), but you want to take a person's land? Because you don't want to deal with traffic?Quote:
Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet, anyway) but do you know how EASILY that can (and will) be spun into "you live your drudging life dealing with traffic jams and long commute because Mr. Rancher can't lose ten acres of his 200+ acre ranch"?
If you don't want to deal with traffic jams, move closer to where you work.
If you are late because of traffic, leave earlier.
Land ownership is not a "vague emotional argument". It's ownership.Quote:
The big problem I see is that there's no real argument against the East Loop beyond a vague emotional argument. "I want the east bypass to stay rural and keep my giant ranch without tax increases" isn't a compelling argument to voters (especially those who cannot afford a big 10+ acre piece of property) and isn't far removed from "Screw you, that's why" as an argument.
That IS an emotional argument. Taking from someone else just because you can't afford what they have is the epitome of an emotional argument.Quote:
isn't a compelling argument to voters (especially those who cannot afford a big 10+ acre piece of property)
And socialism, communism, etc.....
Edit: Just to be clear. I'm not using ignorant as an insult. I'm saying that you're uninformed.
Serious question and I'm not being sarcastic. Have you ever tried to buy land on a tract or acreage? Do you know what kind of capital, credit, and risk is involved?
I've offered real viable alternatives, but for some reason you've chosen not to respond to them with anything more than sound-bite sized emotion.
The common thread I see through all your comments is your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your failure to acknowledge that is enlightening.
If your position is so strong and full of logic and reason you should come argue it in public at the next meeting. Better yet, start your own movement supporting the county and the engineering firm they hired - I'm sure they would appreciate it as the only support they've gotten so far has been from the realtors, developers, and builders who stand to make a lot of money off the deal.
The common thread I see through all your comments is your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your failure to acknowledge that is enlightening.
If your position is so strong and full of logic and reason you should come argue it in public at the next meeting. Better yet, start your own movement supporting the county and the engineering firm they hired - I'm sure they would appreciate it as the only support they've gotten so far has been from the realtors, developers, and builders who stand to make a lot of money off the deal.
There is no *take*. This isn't the USSR. If you are losing property for a right of way, you will be compensated. Just like when they built the current bypass, just like when they expanded 2818 for the super street.
This vague argument of "it isn't right" is simply that, it's a vague argument. If anything, the road running adjacent to your property will make it more valuable, allowing you to sell and move further out if you so desire. The *property owners* stand to make a great deal of money as well.
This vague argument of "it isn't right" is simply that, it's a vague argument. If anything, the road running adjacent to your property will make it more valuable, allowing you to sell and move further out if you so desire. The *property owners* stand to make a great deal of money as well.
If you lose land against your will, it's been taken. Just because you're compensated, that doesn't change the fact that it was taken.Quote:
There is no *take*. This isn't the USSR. If you are losing property for a right of way, you will be compensated.
When did something not being right become a weak argument?Quote:
This vague argument of "it isn't right" is simply that, it's a vague argument.
Society is based on what is right and what is wrong.
That is you projecting your desire for wealth on others. Not everyone is driven by a desire for more money.Quote:
If anything, the road running adjacent to your property will make it more valuable, allowing you to sell and move further out if you so desire. The *property owners* stand to make a great deal of money as well.
Stupe said:
I don't live in the area that would be affected by an east loop, but you're dismissive attitude towards people that live out there is ignorant. It's also self contradictory.You're saying Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet), but you want to take a person's land? Because you don't want to deal with traffic?Quote:
Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet, anyway) but do you know how EASILY that can (and will) be spun into "you live your drudging life dealing with traffic jams and long commute because Mr. Rancher can't lose ten acres of his 200+ acre ranch"?
If you don't want to deal with traffic jams, move closer to where you work.
If you are late because of traffic, leave earlier.
If you read the post, that will be the spin they use when they argue for the East Loop because it's such an easy strawman, not what I'm actually saying. However, "move closer to where you work" is a poor argument when cost of living becomes so high that sprawl is the only real option.
EscondidoPolo92 said:
I've offered real viable alternatives, but for some reason you've chosen not to respond to them with anything more than sound-bite sized emotion.
The common thread I see through all your comments is your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your failure to acknowledge that is enlightening.
If your position is so strong and full of logic and reason you should come argue it in public at the next meeting. Better yet, start your own movement supporting the county and the engineering firm they hired - I'm sure they would appreciate it as the only support they've gotten so far has been from the realtors, developers, and builders who stand to make a lot of money off the deal.
If you actually think "your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't" means you clearly didn't read actually read the posts, it was just a knee-jerk reaction to being opposed to.
This going to be a political issue and lines are being drawn. I am merely pointing out that the anti-East Loop segment has done nothing to strengthen their case besides "my ranch may lose some land", which as I've pointed out most people either won't care about or will actively choose to spite you because to them that sounds like "care about the poor multi-millionaires, they may not be able to afford a ninth yacht this year". I'm not saying this because this is actually the case, I'm saying this because this is how your words will be used against you. If I was truly against the anti-East Loop group I wouldn't say this at all, I'd jump straight to the accusations.
Your "real viable alternatives" are only expanding Earl Rudder Freeway which is already going to happen anyway and likely will be only a temporary patch. It still doesn't address the need for local traffic, and I haven't seen anyone ITT support even upgrading existing roads in the eastern bypass area like Steep Hollow Road.
As for "sound-bite sized emotion" perhaps that could be explained by the fact that I tried to break things into quotes (poorly, I must admit) because I was flabbergasted at what was actually stated. Let me go over what I saw from your post and verify if this was actually correct.
- The belief that Brazos County is not growing or will continue to grow, and anyone that thinks it is must be wrong.
- The belief that the East Loop isn't needed not just now (probably not) but also in the future without anything to back it up.
- The belief that the County is wrong to even look into the possibility of developing it in the future or to do studies regarding its route and viability. (My point being is if it your thoughts that the East Loop "isn't needed" then why be worried about the county looking into it?)
One other thing I wanted to get into (I'll ignore that comment about "well, why don't YOU stump for the county") is that when comparing the outer loop (FM 2038) to "any other metro area with multiple loops"...it's about eight and a half miles from Highway 6. If you look at Interstate 10 in Houston, though, the distance from 610 to Beltway 8 is less than seven miles, and from Beltway 8 to 99, less than five. In Dallas, between Loop 12 (not a freeway, but a loop) and 635...less than five. To the GWB Turnpike, six. In both of these cases, there are several parallel large surface streets to carry local traffic. This seems like it would weaken the case against the East Loop, and if nothing else should be a wide avenue, which is what the plans currently tend to indicate anyway, a six-lane arterial much like Wellborn Road on the west side.
This isn't the Bloods vs Crips and apparently some of my posts were also wiped but you keep making a complete fool of yourself when you say things like the one highlighted.PS3D said:Stupe said:
I don't live in the area that would be affected by an east loop, but you're dismissive attitude towards people that live out there is ignorant. It's also self contradictory.You're saying Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet), but you want to take a person's land? Because you don't want to deal with traffic?Quote:
Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet, anyway) but do you know how EASILY that can (and will) be spun into "you live your drudging life dealing with traffic jams and long commute because Mr. Rancher can't lose ten acres of his 200+ acre ranch"?
If you don't want to deal with traffic jams, move closer to where you work.
If you are late because of traffic, leave earlier.
If you read the post, that will be the spin they use when they argue for the East Loop because it's such an easy strawman, not what I'm actually saying. However, "move closer to where you work" is a poor argument when cost of living becomes so high that sprawl is the only real option.EscondidoPolo92 said:
I've offered real viable alternatives, but for some reason you've chosen not to respond to them with anything more than sound-bite sized emotion.
The common thread I see through all your comments is your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your failure to acknowledge that is enlightening.
If your position is so strong and full of logic and reason you should come argue it in public at the next meeting. Better yet, start your own movement supporting the county and the engineering firm they hired - I'm sure they would appreciate it as the only support they've gotten so far has been from the realtors, developers, and builders who stand to make a lot of money off the deal.
If you actually think "your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't" means you clearly didn't read actually read the posts, it was just a knee-jerk reaction to being opposed to.
This going to be a political issue and lines are being drawn. I am merely pointing out that the anti-East Loop segment has done nothing to strengthen their case besides "my ranch may lose some land", which as I've pointed out most people either won't care about or will actively choose to spite you because to them that sounds like "care about the poor multi-millionaires, they may not be able to afford a ninth yacht this year". I'm not saying this because this is actually the case, I'm saying this because this is how your words will be used against you. If I was truly against the anti-East Loop group I wouldn't say this at all, I'd jump straight to the accusations.
Your "real viable alternatives" are only expanding Earl Rudder Freeway which is already going to happen anyway and likely will be only a temporary patch. It still doesn't address the need for local traffic, and I haven't seen anyone ITT support even upgrading existing roads in the eastern bypass area like Steep Hollow Road.
As for "sound-bite sized emotion" perhaps that could be explained by the fact that I tried to break things into quotes (poorly, I must admit) because I was flabbergasted at what was actually stated. Let me go over what I saw from your post and verify if this was actually correct.
- The belief that Brazos County is not growing or will continue to grow, and anyone that thinks it is must be wrong.
- The belief that the East Loop isn't needed not just now (probably not) but also in the future without anything to back it up.
- The belief that the County is wrong to even look into the possibility of developing it in the future or to do studies regarding its route and viability. (My point being is if it your thoughts that the East Loop "isn't needed" then why be worried about the county looking into it?)
One other thing I wanted to get into (I'll ignore that comment about "well, why don't YOU stump for the county") is that when comparing the outer loop (FM 2038) to "any other metro area with multiple loops"...it's about eight and a half miles from Highway 6. If you look at Interstate 10 in Houston, though, the distance from 610 to Beltway 8 is less than seven miles, and from Beltway 8 to 99, less than five. In Dallas, between Loop 12 (not a freeway, but a loop) and 635...less than five. To the GWB Turnpike, six. In both of these cases, there are several parallel large surface streets to carry local traffic. This seems like it would weaken the case against the East Loop, and if nothing else should be a wide avenue, which is what the plans currently tend to indicate anyway, a six-lane arterial much like Wellborn Road on the west side.
What has led you to think that the East Loop that would conquer parts of College Station is made up of nothing but ranch owning millionaires?
There are communities consitently being built for everything from first time home buyers to a bit higher end buyers that would enjoy an acre lot in "the country" within 10 miles to Kyle Field.
I can tell you though what won't strengthen the pro crowd is utter ignorance about the matter coming from the likes of you.
FYI
Hensel Park redevelopment, TxDOT projects on agenda for Brazos Valley Council of Governments meeting
"The committee will also hear a high-level briefing from TxDOT officials on major roadway projects in the region, addressing construction timelines and potential improvements to ease congestion and enhance safety."
Meeting is scheduled for noon Monday at BVCoG.
Hensel Park redevelopment, TxDOT projects on agenda for Brazos Valley Council of Governments meeting
"The committee will also hear a high-level briefing from TxDOT officials on major roadway projects in the region, addressing construction timelines and potential improvements to ease congestion and enhance safety."
Meeting is scheduled for noon Monday at BVCoG.
The only time I think there is a "take" is when the government uses eminient domain, or the threat of it, to transfer private real estate and give it to another private persons or company. We have seen that done and that's taking.Hornbeck said:
There is no *take*. This isn't the USSR. If you are losing property for a right of way, you will be compensated. Just like when they built the current bypass, just like when they expanded 2818 for the super street.
This vague argument of "it isn't right" is simply that, it's a vague argument. If anything, the road running adjacent to your property will make it more valuable, allowing you to sell and move further out if you so desire. The *property owners* stand to make a great deal of money as well.
If it is determined to have a road somewhere and the state pays the owners a market price and it's to be a publically owned road, it is unfortunate for the owenr, but maybe necessary. But for the government to force a person to sell their land to a private company it should not happen. Think High Speed rail.
Not sure in all instancesthat new roads make land more valuable. That depends on access. I drive Hwy 249 weekly and I see all the land on both sides with no access. It's the same back gravel roads to access the land with some instances a long drive around Hwy 249 to get to a section of land that was carved off. Without a free feeder road on the side, I am not sure if the value of the land changed at all?
Anyone looking for small acreage without the risk of large developmets nearby in the next couple of decades, need to looking into Grimes county around Anderson or Iola or towards Caldwell or Independence. There's no stopping the growth in our area going into the future.johnnyblaze36 said:This isn't the Bloods vs Crips and apparently some of my posts were also wiped but you keep making a complete fool of yourself when you say things like the one highlighted.PS3D said:Stupe said:
I don't live in the area that would be affected by an east loop, but you're dismissive attitude towards people that live out there is ignorant. It's also self contradictory.You're saying Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet), but you want to take a person's land? Because you don't want to deal with traffic?Quote:
Brazos County isn't filled with commies (yet, anyway) but do you know how EASILY that can (and will) be spun into "you live your drudging life dealing with traffic jams and long commute because Mr. Rancher can't lose ten acres of his 200+ acre ranch"?
If you don't want to deal with traffic jams, move closer to where you work.
If you are late because of traffic, leave earlier.
If you read the post, that will be the spin they use when they argue for the East Loop because it's such an easy strawman, not what I'm actually saying. However, "move closer to where you work" is a poor argument when cost of living becomes so high that sprawl is the only real option.EscondidoPolo92 said:
I've offered real viable alternatives, but for some reason you've chosen not to respond to them with anything more than sound-bite sized emotion.
The common thread I see through all your comments is your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your failure to acknowledge that is enlightening.
If your position is so strong and full of logic and reason you should come argue it in public at the next meeting. Better yet, start your own movement supporting the county and the engineering firm they hired - I'm sure they would appreciate it as the only support they've gotten so far has been from the realtors, developers, and builders who stand to make a lot of money off the deal.
If you actually think "your desire to take something away from those who have something you don't" means you clearly didn't read actually read the posts, it was just a knee-jerk reaction to being opposed to.
This going to be a political issue and lines are being drawn. I am merely pointing out that the anti-East Loop segment has done nothing to strengthen their case besides "my ranch may lose some land", which as I've pointed out most people either won't care about or will actively choose to spite you because to them that sounds like "care about the poor multi-millionaires, they may not be able to afford a ninth yacht this year". I'm not saying this because this is actually the case, I'm saying this because this is how your words will be used against you. If I was truly against the anti-East Loop group I wouldn't say this at all, I'd jump straight to the accusations.
Your "real viable alternatives" are only expanding Earl Rudder Freeway which is already going to happen anyway and likely will be only a temporary patch. It still doesn't address the need for local traffic, and I haven't seen anyone ITT support even upgrading existing roads in the eastern bypass area like Steep Hollow Road.
As for "sound-bite sized emotion" perhaps that could be explained by the fact that I tried to break things into quotes (poorly, I must admit) because I was flabbergasted at what was actually stated. Let me go over what I saw from your post and verify if this was actually correct.
- The belief that Brazos County is not growing or will continue to grow, and anyone that thinks it is must be wrong.
- The belief that the East Loop isn't needed not just now (probably not) but also in the future without anything to back it up.
- The belief that the County is wrong to even look into the possibility of developing it in the future or to do studies regarding its route and viability. (My point being is if it your thoughts that the East Loop "isn't needed" then why be worried about the county looking into it?)
One other thing I wanted to get into (I'll ignore that comment about "well, why don't YOU stump for the county") is that when comparing the outer loop (FM 2038) to "any other metro area with multiple loops"...it's about eight and a half miles from Highway 6. If you look at Interstate 10 in Houston, though, the distance from 610 to Beltway 8 is less than seven miles, and from Beltway 8 to 99, less than five. In Dallas, between Loop 12 (not a freeway, but a loop) and 635...less than five. To the GWB Turnpike, six. In both of these cases, there are several parallel large surface streets to carry local traffic. This seems like it would weaken the case against the East Loop, and if nothing else should be a wide avenue, which is what the plans currently tend to indicate anyway, a six-lane arterial much like Wellborn Road on the west side.
What has led you to think that the East Loop that would conquer parts of College Station is made up of nothing but ranch owning millionaires?
There are communities consitently being built for everything from first time home buyers to a bit higher end buyers that would enjoy an acre lot in "the country" within 10 miles to Kyle Field.
I can tell you though what won't strengthen the pro crowd is utter ignorance about the matter coming from the likes of you.
The extra 10 minute drive to Kyle Field might be worth it.