woodiewood said:

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Buford T. Justice said:

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I think that the west gate center could become the new north gate.

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The westgate center is very narrow and surrounded by residential with very little parking. It doesn't have the appear of NG where not only it's directly across from campus but a short walk from Kyle Field before and after games.

NG to me is the only area that has the logistic advantages over other options.

Except for making the money to fund other capital projects, I see no benefit to the community of the sale of the parking area.

If it a'int broke, don't fix it.

---

The Westgate neighborhood would scream bloody murder if a bunch of bars tried to go in there, and rightly so. See: Aggieland Outfitters new building as an example, and that was retail.

Bob, I would really like to see the parking lot area preserved as a ground level outdoor area. Maybe put a small parking garage on the west end that could house the police/restrooms etc. on the bottom floor and then have a couple floors of parking to replace the 100 spots. Walking out of the Chicken or Duddleys and looking up at a 20 story high-rise gives me chills. There are enough of those around there, and enough other lots along University that can be purchased for that purpose if necessary.

I understand a $13M influx to the budget is tempting, but how can you put a price on history? As another poster above said, so much of College Station from earlier generations, even decades is long gone or has changed. Generations of Aggies have made memories at Northgate, and then came back with their children and grandchildren. The character of Northgate has already changed too much in my opinion - sticking yet another high-rise right in the middle of it will drive a stake into the heart of it.

I applaud you for fighting for this issue and your continued participation and transparency on this board. Unfortunately I am just outside of the city limits and as such cannot technically participate in any sort of committee but I certainly feel strongly that The Northgate HISTORICAL district needs to be preserved.

(Edit: grammar)

If you purchase any product, even a pack of gum, in college station, you are a taxpayer.

Bob Yancy said:

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Then Northgate will be gone in 2040 and it will be all student towers as those offer the highest ROI.

---

If you and a bunch of rich old ags want to pool your money to outbid everyone else so y'all can turn it into a nostalgia amusement park, I wish you all the best. Maybe that is the best use and y'all can make a bunch of money.

But if you can't afford the land because towers of housing, offices, and commercial space that utilize proximity to campus have ROI prospects too lucrative to ignore, that's the market sending a signal.

A high land price is a signal that the land has high-value uses. The inhabitants of Aggieland have high-value stuff to do, especially in the areas close to campus. Using force of law to effectively take everything within a mile of campus and try and freeze it in amber without having to pay the costs is awful behavior. It is a tragic waste of resources.

There is so much potential around that campus. I pray y'all knock it off sooner rather than later. I want prosperity for us and the ones who come after us.

Rainey Street in Downtown Austin, quite the evolution last decade or so, not quite the same comparison with NG district today, but worth considering. Rainey St. used to be the spot in downtown Austin, now just high rises, it's lost all the charm it used to have.

I'm not a CS resident, but I've been to the Chicken many more times as a former student than I ever did as a student.

We go to Northgate every single time we visit.

I remember when I first was at A&M back in the early 90s. College station always made jokes about how much better CS was than Bryan. But now Bryan has done a great job making its downtown attractive. A place to go out.

And CS is destroying Northgate one of the few places left in CS with a little character. Hurricane Harry's another historic venue just closed for more housing.

I have fond memories of going to Bonfire Cut Class at the Dixie Chicken, and of eating at Freebirds and Antonio's.

But IDGAF about a stupid parking lot.

The fact remains that the College Station campus has 60% more students today than it did when I was admitted. They have to live somewhere. Why shouldn't it be within easy walking distance of campus? Just so visitors have somewhere to park on game days?

I'm very much of the opinion that cities should be built for people, not for cars.

Tailgate88 said:

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woodiewood said:

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Buford T. Justice said:

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I think that the west gate center could become the new north gate.

---

The westgate center is very narrow and surrounded by residential with very little parking. It doesn't have the appear of NG where not only it's directly across from campus but a short walk from Kyle Field before and after games.

NG to me is the only area that has the logistic advantages over other options.

Except for making the money to fund other capital projects, I see no benefit to the community of the sale of the parking area.

If it a'int broke, don't fix it.

---

The Westgate neighborhood would scream bloody murder if a bunch of bars tried to go in there, and rightly so. See: Aggieland Outfitters new building as an example, and that was retail.

Bob, I would really like to see the parking lot area preserved as a ground level outdoor area. Maybe put a small parking garage on the west end that could house the police/restrooms etc. on the bottom floor and then have a couple floors of parking to replace the 100 spots. Walking out of the Chicken or Duddleys and looking up at a 20 story high-rise gives me chills. There are enough of those around there, and enough other lots along University that can be purchased for that purpose if necessary.

I understand a $13M influx to the budget is tempting, but how can you put a price on history? As another poster above said, so much of College Station from earlier generations, even decades is long gone or has changed. Generations of Aggies have made memories at Northgate, and then came back with their children and grandchildren. The character of Northgate has already changed too much in my opinion - sticking yet another high-rise right in the middle of it will drive a stake into the heart of it.

I applaud you for fighting for this issue and your continued participation and transparency on this board. Unfortunately I am just outside of the city limits and as such cannot technically participate in any sort of committee but I certainly feel strongly that The Northgate HISTORICAL district needs to be preserved.

(Edit: grammar)

---

Thanks for your feedback. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just one vote. I would just like to see a vibrant entertainment district called Northgate. Something special we can all be proud of.

From talking to several small business owners, they can't afford these ground floor retail spaces in the mixed use model. That's why they are empty all over the city.

Foot traffic HIGHLY varies based on time of year. Go to Northgate tonight and the businesses that are open will probably be losing money.
Very few of the non-chain businesses stay open for more than a few years in that area of town. Higher density will only drive rents higher.

Does anyone remember concerts happening on the back porch area and the surface lot?


There use to be North by Northgate as a festival. I know its been years


With all the development it seems there will never be a space for a large outdoor stage in that area moving forward.

Kind of a fun thing gone


_______________


What is the occupancy rate of all these places and the ones down from Brookshire Brothers?

Is this city helping to engineer traffic and other disasters by not planning for the people and cars they allocate building permits for?

unfettered growth is equal cancer


Build a highrise at the Mall

__________________________

BCS(both cities) have not adequately addressed the traffic concerns anywhere in the twin cities


The cities should strive to make themselves livable to their citizens


30 min wait times to travel 2 miles is stupid




Thanks for all the work with the medians though

Bob Yancy said:

---

Tailgate88 said:

---

woodiewood said:

---

Buford T. Justice said:

---

I think that the west gate center could become the new north gate.

---

The westgate center is very narrow and surrounded by residential with very little parking. It doesn't have the appear of NG where not only it's directly across from campus but a short walk from Kyle Field before and after games.

NG to me is the only area that has the logistic advantages over other options.

Except for making the money to fund other capital projects, I see no benefit to the community of the sale of the parking area.

If it a'int broke, don't fix it.

---

The Westgate neighborhood would scream bloody murder if a bunch of bars tried to go in there, and rightly so. See: Aggieland Outfitters new building as an example, and that was retail.

Bob, I would really like to see the parking lot area preserved as a ground level outdoor area. Maybe put a small parking garage on the west end that could house the police/restrooms etc. on the bottom floor and then have a couple floors of parking to replace the 100 spots. Walking out of the Chicken or Duddleys and looking up at a 20 story high-rise gives me chills. There are enough of those around there, and enough other lots along University that can be purchased for that purpose if necessary.

I understand a $13M influx to the budget is tempting, but how can you put a price on history? As another poster above said, so much of College Station from earlier generations, even decades is long gone or has changed. Generations of Aggies have made memories at Northgate, and then came back with their children and grandchildren. The character of Northgate has already changed too much in my opinion - sticking yet another high-rise right in the middle of it will drive a stake into the heart of it.

I applaud you for fighting for this issue and your continued participation and transparency on this board. Unfortunately I am just outside of the city limits and as such cannot technically participate in any sort of committee but I certainly feel strongly that The Northgate HISTORICAL district needs to be preserved.

(Edit: grammar)

---

Thanks for your feedback. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just one vote. I would just like to see a vibrant entertainment district called Northgate. Something special we can all be proud of.

---

I appreciate your willingness to come here and listen to the people of college station. I do not like the idea of another high rise. In theory, the idea of students being located closer to campus is a nice one but it also means issues for other apartments in the areas and a major cut to parking for people who would like to visit Northgate. I think getting rid of the lot would mean a slow death to Northgate. Maybe Noethgate is already dying (not a fan of the change from Fitzwilly's to the weird "Backyard" thing, the loss of Lupots, Antonio's, and Holik's, etc). Northgate is such a part of Aggieland and I'd hate to see it changed even more.

It's nice having at least one person on the council who truly cares about what the citizens want and truly takes the time to listen before making up your mind. This is coming from someone who has attended city council meetings and watched y'all in action. You are appreciated.

Bob Yancy said:

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deh40 said:

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From talking to several small business owners, they can't afford these ground floor retail spaces in the mixed use model. That's why they are empty all over the city.

---

That resonates. I'd suggest that Northgate in particular has greater foot traffic than other places, but that's instinct not based on data.

---

Most of the businesses along University, as well as Church Ave in NG, that have lasted tend to be in the older, and thus lower rent/mortgage, buildings. Aside from CVS, that includes pretty much everything between Chipotle and Chimy's.

As a previous poster noted, there is pressure for density near campus. The problem is that, due to zoning and NIMBYs, it can't go into the areas south and east of campus. The city did have a big chunk of land, right across the road from campus, that they could have sold for a mixed use high rise and made a ton of $$$, but they decided they wanted a shiny new city hall there instead. Even though the old one was much closer to the geographic center of town.

So all that demand for density ends up getting crammed into Northgate. The area bounded by Wellborn, University, S College, and the B/CS city line has few, if any, voters that live there.

BTW - Whatever happened to the CSTEP substation in the St. Mary's annex? Did that go away, or does CSPD need a bigger one?

Bob Yancy said:

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woodometer said:

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I think you should sell the property do all the development you want behind current Northgate with your police station and parking. But as a tradeoff lower University Drive below grade and create a plaza in front of Northgate to replace what you have currently behind it.

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Very very expensive when Elon's The Boring Company can get 2-3 pedestrian crossings under University Drive for a fraction of the cost.

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Do it. Get Elon to College Station.

What I care about is anything that maximizes opportunities for employers to come into the area. That benefits A&M, BCS, and Brazos in general. Do what you think gets us there.

AggieCVQ said:

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What I care about is anything that maximizes opportunities for employers to come into the area. That benefits A&M, BCS, and Brazos in general. Do what you think gets us there.

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100%

I do not want to see more student high rises built where the parking lot is. I prefer for the lot to stay or redeveloped as a bar, etc in the spirit of Northgate. If the city destroys Northgate the partying will be dispersed throughout the city and in neighborhoods. Give the students an area for them to have fun. Also, keep Northgate for former students to return to when they come into town.

Thanks for asking. I hope you report what you find from this thread to your colleagues. Not everyone can make it to a city council meeting.

Quote:

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The city did have a big chunk of land, right across the road from campus, that they could have sold for a mixed use high rise and made a ton of $$$, but they decided they wanted a shiny new city hall there instead. Even though the old one was much closer to the geographic center of town.

---

So much this.

The city could have made a mint off of the land where city hall exists now. They could have put city hall by the police station. Many cities do.

They could have put it on the ball field property by Midtown. Hey! A reason to go to Midtown!

Put it by Costco! Lots of notice there!

But no, they needed a monument across from campus that would get attention. The desire to be seen was greater than the desire to finally turn a profit on a piece of real estate.

The parking lot behind the Chicken will probably suffer for it.

How much money for capital projects could have been raised if that property on Texas was sold to a hotel company? Or a student living development firm?

Sorry, councilman. Any trust you were hoping to drum up for council doing the right thing at Northgate is going to be hard to come by based on recent and distant past history.

Brian Alg said:

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I am lightly shocked at the love that government-directed central planning is getting here.

Just sell the land. Let the market figure out how to use scarce resources.

Free people, directed by the signals of a free market, are going to outperform central planners no matter how many people those planners survey.

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Seems short sided. We want to preserve Northgate; not bulldoze it.

Bob Yancy said:

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A Net Full of Jello said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

Tailgate88 said:

---

woodiewood said:

---

Buford T. Justice said:

---

I think that the west gate center could become the new north gate.

---

The westgate center is very narrow and surrounded by residential with very little parking. It doesn't have the appear of NG where not only it's directly across from campus but a short walk from Kyle Field before and after games.

NG to me is the only area that has the logistic advantages over other options.

Except for making the money to fund other capital projects, I see no benefit to the community of the sale of the parking area.

If it a'int broke, don't fix it.

---

The Westgate neighborhood would scream bloody murder if a bunch of bars tried to go in there, and rightly so. See: Aggieland Outfitters new building as an example, and that was retail.

Bob, I would really like to see the parking lot area preserved as a ground level outdoor area. Maybe put a small parking garage on the west end that could house the police/restrooms etc. on the bottom floor and then have a couple floors of parking to replace the 100 spots. Walking out of the Chicken or Duddleys and looking up at a 20 story high-rise gives me chills. There are enough of those around there, and enough other lots along University that can be purchased for that purpose if necessary.

I understand a $13M influx to the budget is tempting, but how can you put a price on history? As another poster above said, so much of College Station from earlier generations, even decades is long gone or has changed. Generations of Aggies have made memories at Northgate, and then came back with their children and grandchildren. The character of Northgate has already changed too much in my opinion - sticking yet another high-rise right in the middle of it will drive a stake into the heart of it.

I applaud you for fighting for this issue and your continued participation and transparency on this board. Unfortunately I am just outside of the city limits and as such cannot technically participate in any sort of committee but I certainly feel strongly that The Northgate HISTORICAL district needs to be preserved.

(Edit: grammar)

---

Thanks for your feedback. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just one vote. I would just like to see a vibrant entertainment district called Northgate. Something special we can all be proud of.

---

I appreciate your willingness to come here and listen to the people of college station. I do not like the idea of another high rise. In theory, the idea of students being located closer to campus is a nice one but it also means issues for other apartments in the areas and a major cut to parking for people who would like to visit Northgate. I think getting rid of the lot would mean a slow death to Northgate. Maybe Noethgate is already dying (not a fan of the change from Fitzwilly's to the weird "Backyard" thing, the loss of Lupots, Antonio's, and Holik's, etc). Northgate is such a part of Aggieland and I'd hate to see it changed even more.

It's nice having at least one person on the council who truly cares about what the citizens want and truly takes the time to listen before making up your mind. This is coming from someone who has attended city council meetings and watched y'all in action. You are appreciated.

---

Thanks very much. I believe my colleagues and staff care too. Everyone is trying amidst massive change.

When it comes to Northgate I'd be less than honest if I didn't admit I'm concerned. If Northgate weren't there I'd be 100% okay with selling the lot for a student high rise. But Northgate IS there.

Yet another high rise announced today that's just a couple hundred yards away from the city lot. See image.

---

Today on WTAW was a radio news report from Welsh stating the current number of A&M students are not being served by the university effectively because the on campus infrastructure is being taxed to its limit. He stated the university should be reducing enrollment over the next 10 years. My question is why are we continuing to build high rises if A&M is going to reduce enrollment?

LB12Diamond said:

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I remember when I first was at A&M back in the early 90s. College station always made jokes about how much better CS was than Bryan. But now Bryan has done a great job making its downtown attractive. A place to go out.

And CS is destroying Northgate one of the few places left in CS with a little character. Hurricane Harry's another historic venue just closed for more housing.

---

TAMU1990 said:

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I do not want to see more student high rises built where the parking lot is. I prefer for the lot to stay or redeveloped as a bar, etc in the spirit of Northgate. If the city destroys Northgate the partying will be dispersed throughout the city and in neighborhoods. Give the students an area for them to have fun. Also, keep Northgate for former students to return to when they come into town.

Thanks for asking. I hope you report what you find from this thread to your colleagues. Not everyone can make it to a city council meeting.

---

They read this thread and/or hear about it. But yes, I'll mention the feedback I've received. I agree 100% it needs to be an entertainment district, and one when people return after years they say:

"Wow, look at what those Aggies did with Northgate. This is incredible!"

Then everyone is prompted to tell stories with friends and family about the Northgate they remember. Fond memories of the past, captured and enhanced and made better. If we do that, we will have succeeded. If we don't, and if it's just another student tower, we will have failed. It's just that simple.

My vision of Northgate 2040 is:

A full service hotel where parents and visitors can stay.

Nice sit down restaurants.

A walkable, vibrant colorful district.

A large Ole Red or Toby Keith style live music venue, except it'd be great if it were named "Lovett & Keens" :-)

Distinct signage and a couple of arched gateway entrances.

Plenty of retail shops and smaller establishments.

Stone and bronze plaques or statues highlighting the major traditions of Texas A&M dispersed throughout.

A plaza or parkway with an outdoor stage, some shade areas, nice bathrooms and a police substation, et al as identified by staff.

Family friendly by day and nightlife at night. Maybe a 20 foot outdoor TV for people not at the game.

Etc, etc. You know, like a REAL Entertainment District.

We are a city with very little history, time wise. We have to cherish what history we do have. We don't really have an entertainment district. Northgate has always been more of a local place, a local idea that only Aggies understand. Ideas are powerful things, but only if they are acted upon.

If we don't act on this opportunity, be it like my list above or some other version, Northgate will be developed away. That's not hyperbole, it's a fact. The market will put the 20th, the 21st, and 22nd student tower there and that's what it'll be the rest of our lifetime.

Our original design proposal wasn't what I described above, but it was a start that was trying to get there. Then the pure student tower bidders came in with way more dollars, and we allowed ourselves to get sidelined. Myself included. I made a mistake.

I'm not going to make that mistake again. I'll not be voting for anything that doesn't capture and enhance Northgate, and do so by concerted design, with purpose and intent.

I thank y'all for the feedback and helping me clarify my thoughts.

Gig em

Respectfully

Yancy

Quit overthinking it. Keep it as a parking lot. It's fine.

Northgate is not a family spot. It's for college kids

The screw up was not making tower point area a true "downtown College station" With a city hall built there and a true down town feel. Would have been awesome. Somewhere where a Christmas parade could be held and have a hallmark feel to it.

Bob Yancy said:

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TAMU1990 said:

---

I do not want to see more student high rises built where the parking lot is. I prefer for the lot to stay or redeveloped as a bar, etc in the spirit of Northgate. If the city destroys Northgate the partying will be dispersed throughout the city and in neighborhoods. Give the students an area for them to have fun. Also, keep Northgate for former students to return to when they come into town.

Thanks for asking. I hope you report what you find from this thread to your colleagues. Not everyone can make it to a city council meeting.

---

They read this thread and/or hear about it. But yes, I'll mention the feedback I've received. I agree 100% it needs to be an entertainment district, and one when people return after years they say:

"Wow, look at what those Aggies did with Northgate. This is incredible!"

Then everyone is prompted to tell stories with friends and family about the Northgate they remember. Fond memories of the past, captured and enhanced and made better. If we do that, we will have succeeded. If we don't, and if it's just another student tower, we will have failed. It's just that simple.

My vision of Northgate 2040 is:

A full service hotel where parents and visitors can stay.

Nice sit down restaurants.

A walkable, vibrant colorful district.

A large Ole Red or Toby Keith style live music venue, except it'd be great if it were named "Lovett & Keens" :-)

Distinct signage and a couple of arched gateway entrances.

Plenty of retail shops and smaller establishments.

Stone and bronze plaques or statues highlighting the major traditions of Texas A&M dispersed throughout.

A plaza or parkway with an outdoor stage, some shade areas, nice bathrooms and a police substation, et al as identified by staff.

Family friendly by day and nightlife at night. Maybe a 20 foot outdoor TV for people not at the game.

Etc, etc. You know, like a REAL Entertainment District.

We are a city with very little history, time wise. We have to cherish what history we do have. We don't really have an entertainment district. Northgate has always been more of a local place, a local idea that only Aggies understand. Ideas are powerful things, but only if they are acted upon.

If we don't act on this opportunity, be it like my list above or some other version, Northgate will be developed away. That's not hyperbole, it's a fact. The market will put the 20th, the 21st, and 22nd student tower there and that's what it'll be the rest of our lifetime.

Our original design proposal wasn't what I described above, but it was a start that was trying to get there. Then the pure student tower bidders came in with way more dollars, and we allowed ourselves to get sidelined. Myself included. I made a mistake.

I'm not going to make that mistake again. I'll not be voting for anything that doesn't capture and enhance Northgate, and do so by concerted design, with purpose and intent.

I thank y'all for the feedback and helping me clarify my thoughts.

Gig em

Respectfully

Yancy

---

Aside from yourself Bob anyone else on the council feel this way because I get the feeling you may be the only one.

More statues?

Campus already went statue crazy after the Kyle Field redevelopment. We don't need more across the street unless you can get the War Hymn Zombies statue moved across the street.

aggiejc said:

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Sounds like he's describing one of the Live venues. Personal favorite is KC Live in Kansas City. Would fit nicely into that parking lot

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My favorite big city is Nashville because of the live music venues, relative cleanliness and charm. Try to capture that in a smaller space that compliments Northgate as an entertainment district.