CoCS exploring charging for street parking [Staff Warning 6/21/2024]

29,003 Views | 284 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by dubi
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Quote:


Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.


Think about whether this is the deflection you want to use: throwing blame at the state when the city purchases unnecessary Instagram props for vanity and makes bad land and property deals.

KBTX reported that residents in the area where y'all want to charge for parking are against it.

Have you considered the opinions of the constituents you represent?


A lot of disparate topics to unpack there… I'll try…

Not deflection. I owned up to the decision to test pilot this for two events;
And the state IS to blame for the unreasonable and arbitrary constraints it places on municipal finance;
And there hasn't been one bad land deal consummated since I've been on council. We've made massive capital gains for the taxpayers and closed out a business park, having sold all available lots;
The "I love Aggieland" sign enjoys the overwhelming approval of the citizens and is now often featured on national TV during sporting events by visiting networks including ESPN. Invaluable community marketing and promotion for the $83,000 it cost;
I don't recall a lot of opposition the night we debated on street fee parking, but I've heard quite a bit since, and yes, I am and always will listen closely to constituents and act on their concerns. They are my neighbors and my boss.

Respectfully submitted,

Bob Y
I would have assumed that the city council would know that the homeowners in the residential neighborhoods who have family and friends park in front of their homes on many weekends for about 50 years would have objected to this without having to attend city council meetings..

I guess I assumed wrong.



woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Brian Alg said:

In case anyone actually thinks that prices do not affect behavior:



Harvell's neighbor was planning on having a bunch of trucks parked on the street on Saturday when/where parking will be especially scarce and valuable. With the introduction of the $25 price, he decided that it wasn't worth it. Apparently it was easy enough to shift the work to a different day; not worth the extra $25 per truck to do the job on Saturday. If the city got the price right, that will open things up for someone else who values the spot more and *is* willing to pay $25 to park there.

If there are tons of empty spots on Saturday, the price is too high. If there are still people driving around having trouble finding a $25 parking spot, then it was too low. I suspect $25 is too cheap for the closer spots and too expensive for the ones further east and south. But if you have ever been to that area on a gameday, you have seen that $0 leads to a shortage of parking.

Upshot is, this is what prices do, they send signals and affect behavior. They encourage people to reduce use where it is easiest (e.g., shifting non-urgent work, carpooling, locating the watch party further from the stadium). And if the city isn't being terrible, it encourages people to open up supply where they can, like their driveway.
All they did is put flyers on homes? What happens if it blows off and a person coming into town doesn't know anything at all about the illegal parking fee?

I suspect there are about 500 or more homes being affected....hopefully that is 500 votes cast in the next round of elections against all of the incumbent council members. I know there will be at least one.
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
woodiewood said:

Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Quote:


Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.


Think about whether this is the deflection you want to use: throwing blame at the state when the city purchases unnecessary Instagram props for vanity and makes bad land and property deals.

KBTX reported that residents in the area where y'all want to charge for parking are against it.

Have you considered the opinions of the constituents you represent?


A lot of disparate topics to unpack there… I'll try…

Not deflection. I owned up to the decision to test pilot this for two events;
And the state IS to blame for the unreasonable and arbitrary constraints it places on municipal finance;
And there hasn't been one bad land deal consummated since I've been on council. We've made massive capital gains for the taxpayers and closed out a business park, having sold all available lots;
The "I love Aggieland" sign enjoys the overwhelming approval of the citizens and is now often featured on national TV during sporting events by visiting networks including ESPN. Invaluable community marketing and promotion for the $83,000 it cost;
I don't recall a lot of opposition the night we debated on street fee parking, but I've heard quite a bit since, and yes, I am and always will listen closely to constituents and act on their concerns. They are my neighbors and my boss.

Respectfully submitted,

Bob Y
I would have assumed that the city council would know that the homeowners in the residential neighborhoods who have family and friends park in front of their homes on many weekends for about 50 years would have objected to this without having to attend city council meetings..

I guess I assumed wrong.






This is the disingenuous part. Non of these people are idiots. Bob, for example, is a very intelligent man and is/was an outstanding business man. It defies logic someone of his skill level would blow it this bad on such an easy judgement call. Really odd. Unsettling. I would never have even entertained the notion of voting against him in the past. Now I will.
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hittag1492 said:

woodiewood said:

Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Quote:


Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.


Think about whether this is the deflection you want to use: throwing blame at the state when the city purchases unnecessary Instagram props for vanity and makes bad land and property deals.

KBTX reported that residents in the area where y'all want to charge for parking are against it.

Have you considered the opinions of the constituents you represent?


A lot of disparate topics to unpack there… I'll try…

Not deflection. I owned up to the decision to test pilot this for two events;
And the state IS to blame for the unreasonable and arbitrary constraints it places on municipal finance;
And there hasn't been one bad land deal consummated since I've been on council. We've made massive capital gains for the taxpayers and closed out a business park, having sold all available lots;
The "I love Aggieland" sign enjoys the overwhelming approval of the citizens and is now often featured on national TV during sporting events by visiting networks including ESPN. Invaluable community marketing and promotion for the $83,000 it cost;
I don't recall a lot of opposition the night we debated on street fee parking, but I've heard quite a bit since, and yes, I am and always will listen closely to constituents and act on their concerns. They are my neighbors and my boss.

Respectfully submitted,

Bob Y
I would have assumed that the city council would know that the homeowners in the residential neighborhoods who have family and friends park in front of their homes on many weekends for about 50 years would have objected to this without having to attend city council meetings..

I guess I assumed wrong.






This is the disingenuous part. Non of these people are idiots. Bob, for example, is a very intelligent man and is/was an outstanding business man. It defies logic someone of his skill level would blow it this bad on such an easy judgement call. Really odd. Unsettling. I would never have even entertained the notion of voting against him in the past. Now I will.
It's all about the money. The owners in the Southgate area are probably paying 10 million dollars in city property taxes and road taxes annually. Why can't the road tax be used?
Koko Chingo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Where is Mr. Yancy to provide a fiscally conservative explanation?


Sorry just saw this.

We are doing a test program for the soccer match and George Strait concert. It is just a test, not permanent policy. I was in support of it.

The strain on your public safety budget relative to these massive events almost cannot be overstated. It's all hands on deck just managing traffic flow and keeping the peace when a hundred thousand humans descend on a city of 130,000.

While we cheer such events for the positive benefits they bring to our city, police and fire and city staff writ large see it as the logistical challenge it is. They also serve and protect us as we have fun and get rowdy, while they miss time with their families. I think it's important to see it in that context.

Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.

Cities charge for parking in every state in the union. It's not new. Folks are parking in these neighborhoods because of their proximity to campus.

Doing a test run to see if we can offset some of the fiscal pressure created by these events seemed worth the test run to me. That was the call I made and for a pilot program over two events, I stand by the decision.

Respectfully yours,

-yancy
Now that I have had a few minutes to sit down. My response is going to address Mr. Yancy's post.

In Bold - Are the sections in Mr. Yancy's post I am talking about.

Mr. Yancy,

All of this is my opinion.

(response to opening paragraph)
With your first statement - Here is where we start off on the wrong foot. I see this as choosing your words very carefully so that your statement is true by dictionary definition. My feeling along with many others is that the test is really to see if the city makes enough profit. Other than that, it is a tentative 'YES' for the program to be permanent. While technically a test. It will not involve a lot of critical trials or even expanded input from the citizens. It's a litmus test to see if it brings in enough revenue. And being a pilot program means no public vote and limited public input.

(paragraphs on public safety budget work/life balance)
My response here is in reply to your next two paragraphs relating to public safety budget and the time with their families.

Again, I feel you are choosing your words very carefully here. Everyone knows traffic, restaurants, hotels and so on, are terrible on gamedays. It can definitely be an inconvenience. 'Strain' does not say the city is incapable of providing services or that it is losing money. Yet, it has that tone.

If the city cannot provide proper services during a large event, then it needs to charge the event more in permitting fees. The city could have even more law enforcement from outside the area come in and handle more of the traffic and stadium security duties. We could even bring in extra fire trucks and ambulances if needed. All of this cost would be passed on to the event and paid for during the permitting process. That would free up the budget and allow us to have more officers on patrol for residents.

Additionally, if the city cannot provide adequate public safety services for its residents during a large event that needs to be addressed by the council ASAP and every resident should be notified. That is not an unreasonable ask. I even get a water quality report in the mail every year.

If we meet the standard then there is nothing to be commenting on. Of course things are 'strained' on gameday; ask any restaurant.

You have also previously said you want to bring an events center to College Station to hold concerts etc. How would this be feasible if our public safety budget is strained and you care so much about the work life balance of our first responders? You end your paragraph by reminding us that it is also important to see public safety in this context not just fiscally.

(Applies to section on strained O&M resources)
If the city is strained fiscally for operations and maintenance; then why does the city push so hard at building new facilities that it apparently cannot afford to run or maintain?

Why do you push for an events center if there are no funds to operate and maintain it?

When I criticize the city for building a Taj Mahal; It is not about the city having nice facilities. It is about the city being fiscally irresponsible and the trying to nickel and dime us to death. For example, how much more tax revenue would the city have if it built the same city hall close to Central Park by the police station? And then let private industry develop some of the most expensive property in the city.

Every national retail and food related business would have been in a bidding war over that property and paid a massive property tax bill each year. On top of that, the sales tax pouring in would have been awesome and not off the backs of the average resident if the form of fees.

That's why we call it a Taj Mahal, because its 'hey look at me'; versus the city being here to 'serve'.

If I won a big sum of money and spent it all on a giant mansion. Then could not afford to pay the taxes, utilities and maintain it --- who's fault would that be?

We all have to live within our means and constraints. That is all we are asking of the city to do.

(paragraph saying everyone else charges for parking)
This excuse is as old as time. It is also irrelevant. We are talking about the City of College Station, no one else. Of course, its because of how close parking is to an event. That is not what's in question here. Please be specific and address the issue at hand.

(last paragraph stating he made the call for the pilot program)

Again, if there is fiscal pressure the city needs to charge the venues accordingly.

The city should not face any fiscal pressure for an event in which they set the terms of the permit (that apply to them) and fee structure.

To me it seems like we really do not need a pilot program. I believe it's a realistic assumption that people will pay to park in the neighborhoods and that residents are not going to be happy about it. The real unknown is how many will park at the mall.

It also seems like the requirements for the city to push through a pilot program are lower than that of something permanent so that's why the 'test'.

(my conclusion)

As I close, large events put an extra load on traffic, restaurants, first responders and so on. But the city is in complete control of the permitting requirements and fees they charge. They need to charge the venue.

To me this entire thing is hypocritical and speaks to the larger hypocrisy of our city. For example:

The city has no money to operate and maintain buildings; however, they always want to build new ones.

City leaders usually speak about how large events bring millions of dollars into our local economy. Now in direct contrast with that statement; we hear that large events put a 'strain' fiscally on our public safety budget as well as we need to be concerned about our first responders' work/life balance. --- after previously campaigning for a large event center to hold concerts etc.

None of these kinds of actions or statements build trust between government officials and residents. Why can't the city just start taking care of the little things to build trust and rapport before going after things like this? By not doing so it creates a lot of skeptics and mistrust.

While we see what you want to do; for me, its your (and past council members) words & actions that create mistrust.
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
[Your posts are starting to cross the line of stating your opinion to becoming personal insults and we are going to keep this thread respectful. -Staff]
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FlyRod said:

I may have misread the article but it sounds like they're trying to figure out how to avoid residential street congestion. But I dunno.
Why would there be less congestion. How does paying to park reduce congestion?
maroon barchetta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
woodiewood said:

Hittag1492 said:

woodiewood said:

Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Quote:


Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.


Think about whether this is the deflection you want to use: throwing blame at the state when the city purchases unnecessary Instagram props for vanity and makes bad land and property deals.

KBTX reported that residents in the area where y'all want to charge for parking are against it.

Have you considered the opinions of the constituents you represent?


A lot of disparate topics to unpack there… I'll try…

Not deflection. I owned up to the decision to test pilot this for two events;
And the state IS to blame for the unreasonable and arbitrary constraints it places on municipal finance;
And there hasn't been one bad land deal consummated since I've been on council. We've made massive capital gains for the taxpayers and closed out a business park, having sold all available lots;
The "I love Aggieland" sign enjoys the overwhelming approval of the citizens and is now often featured on national TV during sporting events by visiting networks including ESPN. Invaluable community marketing and promotion for the $83,000 it cost;
I don't recall a lot of opposition the night we debated on street fee parking, but I've heard quite a bit since, and yes, I am and always will listen closely to constituents and act on their concerns. They are my neighbors and my boss.

Respectfully submitted,

Bob Y
I would have assumed that the city council would know that the homeowners in the residential neighborhoods who have family and friends park in front of their homes on many weekends for about 50 years would have objected to this without having to attend city council meetings..

I guess I assumed wrong.






This is the disingenuous part. Non of these people are idiots. Bob, for example, is a very intelligent man and is/was an outstanding business man. It defies logic someone of his skill level would blow it this bad on such an easy judgement call. Really odd. Unsettling. I would never have even entertained the notion of voting against him in the past. Now I will.
It's all about the money. The owners in the Southgate area are probably paying 10 million dollars in city property taxes and road taxes annually. Why can't the road tax be used?
In south gate the city stands to make $40,600 per event gross. Seems like chickenfeed but this is how they push the agenda. Small at first and then it grows. Total of 1624 spots at $25 per spot. Can't just do it on city lots as the numbers get smaller. I do not understand the eastside parking of paid and free.


I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980-1981, 1983-1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hittag1492 said:

Koko Chingo said:

Bob Yancy said:

maroon barchetta said:

Where is Mr. Yancy to provide a fiscally conservative explanation?


Sorry just saw this.

We are doing a test program for the soccer match and George Strait concert. It is just a test, not permanent policy. I was in support of it.

The strain on your public safety budget relative to these massive events almost cannot be overstated. It's all hands on deck just managing traffic flow and keeping the peace when a hundred thousand humans descend on a city of 130,000.

While we cheer such events for the positive benefits they bring to our city, police and fire and city staff writ large see it as the logistical challenge it is. They also serve and protect us as we have fun and get rowdy, while they miss time with their families. I think it's important to see it in that context.

Anyway, your city hall is strained for operations & maintenance resources. There is money to build things, but there's no wiggle room to run things. This is because the state puts unreasonable and arbitrary constraints on how we spend the comparatively low $.51 tax rate we all pay.

Cities charge for parking in every state in the union. It's not new. Folks are parking in these neighborhoods because of their proximity to campus.

Doing a test run to see if we can offset some of the fiscal pressure created by these events seemed worth the test run to me. That was the call I made and for a pilot program over two events, I stand by the decision.

Respectfully yours,

-yancy
Now that I have had a few minutes to sit down. My response is going to address Mr. Yancy's post.

In Bold - Are the sections in Mr. Yancy's post I am talking about.

Mr. Yancy,

All of this is my opinion.

(response to opening paragraph)
With your first statement - Here is where we start off on the wrong foot. I see this as choosing your words very carefully so that your statement is true by dictionary definition. My feeling along with many others is that the test is really to see if the city makes enough profit. Other than that, it is a tentative 'YES' for the program to be permanent. While technically a test. It will not involve a lot of critical trials or even expanded input from the citizens. It's a litmus test to see if it brings in enough revenue. And being a pilot program means no public vote and limited public input.

(paragraphs on public safety budget work/life balance)
My response here is in reply to your next two paragraphs relating to public safety budget and the time with their families.

Again, I feel you are choosing your words very carefully here. Everyone knows traffic, restaurants, hotels and so on, are terrible on gamedays. It can definitely be an inconvenience. 'Strain' does not say the city is incapable of providing services or that it is losing money. Yet, it has that tone.

If the city cannot provide proper services during a large event, then it needs to charge the event more in permitting fees. The city could have even more law enforcement from outside the area come in and handle more of the traffic and stadium security duties. We could even bring in extra fire trucks and ambulances if needed. All of this cost would be passed on to the event and paid for during the permitting process. That would free up the budget and allow us to have more officers on patrol for residents.

Additionally, if the city cannot provide adequate public safety services for its residents during a large event that needs to be addressed by the council ASAP and every resident should be notified. That is not an unreasonable ask. I even get a water quality report in the mail every year.

If we meet the standard then there is nothing to be commenting on. Of course things are 'strained' on gameday; ask any restaurant.

You have also previously said you want to bring an events center to College Station to hold concerts etc. How would this be feasible if our public safety budget is strained and you care so much about the work life balance of our first responders? You end your paragraph by reminding us that it is also important to see public safety in this context not just fiscally.

(Applies to section on strained O&M resources)
If the city is strained fiscally for operations and maintenance; then why does the city push so hard at building new facilities that it apparently cannot afford to run or maintain?

Why do you push for an events center if there are no funds to operate and maintain it?

When I criticize the city for building a Taj Mahal; It is not about the city having nice facilities. It is about the city being fiscally irresponsible and the trying to nickel and dime us to death. For example, how much more tax revenue would the city have if it built the same city hall close to Central Park by the police station? And then let private industry develop some of the most expensive property in the city.

Every national retail and food related business would have been in a bidding war over that property and paid a massive property tax bill each year. On top of that, the sales tax pouring in would have been awesome and not off the backs of the average resident if the form of fees.

That's why we call it a Taj Mahal, because its 'hey look at me'; versus the city being here to 'serve'.

If I won a big sum of money and spent it all on a giant mansion. Then could not afford to pay the taxes, utilities and maintain it --- who's fault would that be?

We all have to live within our means and constraints. That is all we are asking of the city to do.

(paragraph saying everyone else charges for parking)
This excuse is as old as time. It is also irrelevant. We are talking about the City of College Station, no one else. Of course, its because of how close parking is to an event. That is not what's in question here. Please be specific and address the issue at hand.

(last paragraph stating he made the call for the pilot program)

Again, if there is fiscal pressure the city needs to charge the venues accordingly.

The city should not face any fiscal pressure for an event in which they set the terms of the permit (that apply to them) and fee structure.

To me it seems like we really do not need a pilot program. I believe it's a realistic assumption that people will pay to park in the neighborhoods and that residents are not going to be happy about it. The real unknown is how many will park at the mall.

It also seems like the requirements for the city to push through a pilot program are lower than that of something permanent so that's why the 'test'.

(my conclusion)

As I close, large events put an extra load on traffic, restaurants, first responders and so on. But the city is in complete control of the permitting requirements and fees they charge. They need to charge the venue.

To me this entire thing is hypocritical and speaks to the larger hypocrisy of our city. For example:

The city has no money to operate and maintain buildings; however, they always want to build new ones.

City leaders usually speak about how large events bring millions of dollars into our local economy. Now in direct contrast with that statement; we hear that large events put a 'strain' fiscally on our public safety budget as well as we need to be concerned about our first responders' work/life balance. --- after previously campaigning for a large event center to hold concerts etc.

None of these kinds of actions or statements build trust between government officials and residents. Why can't the city just start taking care of the little things to build trust and rapport before going after things like this? By not doing so it creates a lot of skeptics and mistrust.

While we see what you want to do; for me, its your (and past council members) words & actions that create mistrust.


Perfect. And the reason intellectual dishonesty is quite often the primary way most politicians communicate. I thought Bob was above that-well above it. He is not as proven quite clearly above. Extremely disappointing.

The city leaders in CS need to attend a seminar hosted by the city leaders in Bryan and learn a few things. They absolutely dominate our city leaders on a daily basis.
The city had such a stress on monies available so the took Millions off the tax roles by buying the Macy's property and building which takes it off the tax roles forever.

whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
But now they have 662 spaces to charge $25 for! That is a whopping $16k per event before expenses! I think it would be funny if the mall said this event isn't in their lease and they can't do that. Who is paying for the transportation to bus these people up to the game from their parking space?

Edit

I could be mistaken and I don't know if this was resolved:
Wasn't the city being sued by the mall for not paying for the common areas- parking lot, curbs, trees etc? And now they are using the parking lot for a revenue maker for an event?

Again I could be mistaken
I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980-1981, 1983-1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There would be no lease to the mall for the Macy's parking lot...that is city owned property. I think the lease amount was for the maintenance of the common area inside the Mall and perhaps the landscaping and entrance signs.
woodiewood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hornbeck said:

AggieBaseball06 said:

"No exceptions for residents" seems like a fancy way of saying "Here's a new tax for people in this neighborhood".


Coming next fall to a football game near you.

"Pilot program" my rear end.
By definition, it is a Pilot Program by definition.

"A pilot program, also called a feasibility study or experimental trial, is a small-scale, short-term experiment that helps an organization learn how a large-scale project might work in practice."

Next will be the football games. Then other neighborhoods. Then it will be Veterans Park and all the city parks around town.
Brian Alg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
woodiewood said:

Why would there be less congestion. How does paying to park reduce congestion?
You and I had a back and forth on this like a month ago.

You brought up that some might park their cars on the other side of Holeman and carpool closer in just one car. So that is one mechanism.

Others might do a rideshare. Some might carpool from other spots. And we've seen comments that some people who aren't going to the game are going to shift their plans so they aren't parking in the street near the stadium on gameday.

There are all kinds clever of things that people will do to avoid paying $25. One of my favorite things about markets is that free people will come up with all kinds of clever stuff that a central planner could never think of.
Brian Alg

Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Alg said:

woodiewood said:

Why would there be less congestion. How does paying to park reduce congestion?
You and I had a back and forth on this like a month ago.

You brought up that some might park their cars on the other side of Holeman and carpool closer in just one car. So that is one mechanism.

Others might do a rideshare. Some might carpool from other spots. And we've seen comments that some people who aren't going to the game are going to shift their plans so they aren't parking in the street near the stadium on gameday.

There are all kinds clever of things that people will do to avoid paying $25. One of my favorite things about markets is that free people will come up with all kinds of clever stuff that a central planner could never think of.


This is not designed to do that by nature. It is designed to generate revenue. They will find the sweet spot that does not drive people away. Even Bob says little about the traffic/ pedestrian aspect of it. It is a revenue grab so do not expect it to have any impact on congestion.
Smeghead4761
How long do you want to ignore this user?
woodiewood said:

Hornbeck said:

AggieBaseball06 said:

"No exceptions for residents" seems like a fancy way of saying "Here's a new tax for people in this neighborhood".


Coming next fall to a football game near you.

"Pilot program" my rear end.
By definition, it is a Pilot Program by definition.

"A pilot program, also called a feasibility study or experimental trial, is a small-scale, short-term experiment that helps an organization learn how a large-scale project might work in practice."

Next will be the football games. Then other neighborhoods. Then it will be Veterans Park and all the city parks around town.
"Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman and Rose D. Friedman, Tyranny of the Status Quo,1984, Pg. 115
Hornbeck
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
To say a large event at Kyle Field is "unprecendented" is a bit of a stretch and bordering on falsehood, councilman. 6-7 times a year there are that many people (or more) here for football games. There's the precedent. How else would you know about the "congested streets" without such precedents?
legalbird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Vehicle theft if car is towed without consent?
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hittag1492 said:

Brian Alg said:

woodiewood said:

Why would there be less congestion. How does paying to park reduce congestion?
You and I had a back and forth on this like a month ago.

You brought up that some might park their cars on the other side of Holeman and carpool closer in just one car. So that is one mechanism.

Others might do a rideshare. Some might carpool from other spots. And we've seen comments that some people who aren't going to the game are going to shift their plans so they aren't parking in the street near the stadium on gameday.

There are all kinds clever of things that people will do to avoid paying $25. One of my favorite things about markets is that free people will come up with all kinds of clever stuff that a central planner could never think of.


This is not designed to do that by nature. It is designed to generate revenue. They will find the sweet spot that does not drive people away. Even Bob says little about the traffic/ pedestrian aspect of it. It is a revenue grab so do not expect it to have any impact on congestion.


My calculus was- if people are parking in front of my house already during events for free, maybe they won't if they are charged $25 bucks and if they do, at least my city gets something to offset public safety costs associated with these massive events. I also considered the tens of millions I'm sure my beloved Alma mater collects in parking revenues (with nary a word on Texags btw) and finally- the inarguable fact that cities across America charge for street parking as a routine matter.

No citizens stood up during hear visitors on April 25th and had anything to say, nor had I, until today, received any feedback about it from any folks.

Rest assured I hear you now! I'll consider all this feedback. I've reached out to the neighborhood association which I still haven't heard an official position from.

I look forward to their responses, too. Have a good evening everyone!

Bob Y
Deej
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!
Brian Alg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It probably is designed to do that.

But even if it weren't designed to do that, it will. Unintended consequences often result from this kind of thing. People respond to incentives.

If you are right, and the city hits the sweet spot with the pricing, there will be a few more spots left open and less need to cruise for spots.

I suspect one way they will want to make it work better is to have some differential pricing. The Lincoln, Wayne Smith and City Hall lots further from the stadium probably should have lower prices than the street parking spots that are closer to Dexter and Bush. Doing $25 for everything will lead to more cruising than if they differentiated, I suspect.
Brian Alg

Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Alg said:

It probably is designed to do that.

But even if it weren't designed to do that, it will. Unintended consequences often result from this kind of thing. People respond to incentives.

If you are right, and the city hits the sweet spot with the pricing, there will be a few spots more spots left open and less need to cruise for spots.

I suspect one way they will want to make it work better is to have some differential pricing. The Lincoln, Wayne Smith and City Hall lots further from the stadium probably should have lower prices than the street parking spots that are closer to Dexter and Bush. Doing $25 for everything will lead to more cruising than if they differentiated, I suspect.


I suspect- you may end up disappointed. The main problem being there is no real issue currently with the secondary issue being it would take a pretty strong impact for it to be something anyone would notice, which I believe even in your most optimistic estimates seems quite unlikely. It's just not a great idea. No big deal, bad ideas come and go all the time.
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Deej said:

The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!


I was told parking was a problem, and that it wasn't the homeowners using those spaces, but people parking for events. Is that incorrect? I'd like to know

Respectfully
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bob Yancy said:

Deej said:

The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!


I was told parking was a problem, and that it wasn't the homeowners using those spaces, but people parking for events. Is that incorrect? I'd like to know

Respectfully


So do you believe charging will prevent non- homeowners from parking there to control that problem? Maybe I am not understanding. If this is to control congestion of parking then it will not then generate revenue as the spaces will not be full (fantasy as we all know they will). If it generates revenue, then it will not control congestion as the spaces will have to be full by, presumably, the same non-homeowners.

Clearly the intent of this trial is to see if it generates revenue (fills spaces.) It will have zero impact on parking congestion or pedestrians walking in the area, which has not been a big issue anyway.

Again, maybe I am not understanding your question.
Deej
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yes Bob that is incorrect for many of us. I have lived in the area 30 years. There are people who park and walk but many are families of students who live there. For years I hosted old roommates and classmates as well as family. We would eat visit and walk to the games. My yard guy normally comes on Saturday even during football games, now we will have to make alternate plans those days. This is purely a revenue grab cleverly disguised by staff, that you all bought hook line and sinker.
maroon barchetta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Yancy said:

Deej said:

The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!


I was told parking was a problem, and that it wasn't the homeowners using those spaces, but people parking for events. Is that incorrect? I'd like to know

Respectfully


I thought it was about safety and reducing congestion?
dubi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I live 1/2 mile from Kyle field and received a door tag.

There was no other notification that my home would be a part of this fiasco; why was there no advance notification such a postcard mailer?
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hittag1492 said:

Bob Yancy said:

Deej said:

The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!


I was told parking was a problem, and that it wasn't the homeowners using those spaces, but people parking for events. Is that incorrect? I'd like to know

Respectfully


So do you believe charging will prevent non- homeowners from parking there to control that problem? Maybe I am not understanding. If this is to control congestion of parking then it will not then generate revenue as the spaces will not be full (fantasy as we all know they will). If it generates revenue, then it will not control congestion as the spaces will have to be full by, presumably, the same non-homeowners.

Clearly the intent of this trial is to see if it generates revenue (fills spaces.) It will have zero impact on parking congestion or pedestrians walking in the area, which has not been a big issue anyway.

Again, maybe I am not understanding your question.


For me, it was a mixture of both. Moderate/control parking and for those willing to pay, generate revenue to offset public safety costs.

Respectfully, you didn't answer my question. I presume you live in Southside. Is parking congestion a problem there during events?
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
dubi said:

I live 1/2 mile from Kyle field and received a door tag.

There was no other notification that my home would be a part of this fiasco; why was there no advance notification such a postcard mailer?
You should have been at the meeting on 4/25 apparently.

"No citizens stood up during hear visitors on April 25th and had anything to say, nor had I, until today, received any feedback about it from any folks. " said Bob yancy
I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980-1981, 1983-1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
100%
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Deej said:

Yes Bob that is incorrect for many of us. I have lived in the area 30 years. There are people who park and walk but many are families of students who live there. For years I hosted old roommates and classmates as well as family. We would eat visit and walk to the games. My yard guy normally comes on Saturday even during football games, now we will have to make alternate plans those days. This is purely a revenue grab cleverly disguised by staff, that you all bought hook line and sinker.


Setting accusations aside for a moment, would you be in support of this policy if every homeowner in the affected area received two mirror tags exempting them from a parking fee? Please advise.
dubi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
whoop1995 said:

dubi said:

I live 1/2 mile from Kyle field and received a door tag.

There was no other notification that my home would be a part of this fiasco; why was there no advance notification such a postcard mailer?
You should have been at the meeting on 4/25 apparently.
I had no idea the parking would extend so far or I would have attended.

My assumption (yes that makes me an ass) was this was the few blocks just south of Kyle Field. We are south of the quad almost to Holleman.
dubi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bob Yancy said:

Deej said:

Yes Bob that is incorrect for many of us. I have lived in the area 30 years. There are people who park and walk but many are families of students who live there. For years I hosted old roommates and classmates as well as family. We would eat visit and walk to the games. My yard guy normally comes on Saturday even during football games, now we will have to make alternate plans those days. This is purely a revenue grab cleverly disguised by staff, that you all bought hook line and sinker.


Setting accusations aside for a moment, would you be in support of this policy if every homeowner in the affected area received two mirror tags exempting them from a parking fee? Please advise.

I think it should be 1 tag per bedroom.
Hittag1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bob Yancy said:

Hittag1492 said:

Bob Yancy said:

Deej said:

The problem with that reasoning is fine, however what about your friend or even more so your family. Is that okay that they pay $25 to come and visit and watch a game with you. After all win for the city!


I was told parking was a problem, and that it wasn't the homeowners using those spaces, but people parking for events. Is that incorrect? I'd like to know

Respectfully


So do you believe charging will prevent non- homeowners from parking there to control that problem? Maybe I am not understanding. If this is to control congestion of parking then it will not then generate revenue as the spaces will not be full (fantasy as we all know they will). If it generates revenue, then it will not control congestion as the spaces will have to be full by, presumably, the same non-homeowners.

Clearly the intent of this trial is to see if it generates revenue (fills spaces.) It will have zero impact on parking congestion or pedestrians walking in the area, which has not been a big issue anyway.

Again, maybe I am not understanding your question.


For me, it was a mixture of both. Moderate/control parking and for those willing to pay, generate revenue to offset public safety costs.

Respectfully, you didn't answer my question. I presume you live in Southside. Is parking congestion a problem there during events?


I have two homes one of which is there and also my brother lives there as well. As far as congestion, no. Of course people park there, it is expected. It is not a bother really as it is such a short timeframe and actually kind of cool being a part of all the activity and people waling by.

My question still stands. Charging as this plan is set to do will do nothing to prevent the parking congestion there. People will pay $25 to park there easily so it will still be just as congested. Hence my confusion as to your question on congestion as I assume that cannot be the point of doing this. Hope that makes more sense. $25 is nothing when going to a game or other event costs a couple or family at least $200-500 a person all in.

If you believed it would actually solve the congestion the why would you be counting on revenue? Empty spaces would generate no revenue for your various needs.

That is all I am saying. My point is-it is clearly for the money AND it clearly will not impact congestion-which is a non-issue anyway. The same people you spoke of that did not show io to speak against this (likely had no idea you were going to discuss it and you know it) also did not come to your meeting complaining about any of this, correct? Sounds like this "problem" came from an internal source that was looking for an issue to "fix" that could generate $. I could be wrong, but I'm not, lol.

Thanks for discussing it Bob, hope the feedback helps.
Deej
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yes that would mitigate a lot of the problem for residents. We wouldn't feel quite as abused by the situation. The like it or leave it attitude that this was presented with has left a very bad taste in people's mouth.
People who are not residents or friends of the residents who park are generally nice and considerate, I have even had people leave notes with cell phones to contact me if they needed to move the car.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.