Stupe said:

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If it brought in a good ROI, would you support building it.

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I can't see myself supporting CoCS building that kind of facility no matter what the projects' proponents claimed the ROI to be.

Quote:

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See....circular arguments are easy.

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We might be talking past each other. I wasn't trying to make an argument. I was trying to determine if you believe there is any cost too high when it comes to youth sports. Is the circular argument thing an indication that you think College Station funding an iFly franchise for 10 students would be unlikely to have a good enough ROI to warrant your support?

With phrasing like "If there are enough kids interested" and " the participation level required to compete," your previous posts gave me the impression that your only criteria were basically if there is enough interest to field a team. I am happy to be mistaken.

Could you give some idea of what criteria you have for what makes for a good ROI?

The thing that pushed you over the line is that I am not open to the prospect of the CoCS opening up an iFly indoor skydiving franchise?

That's fine.

If your reason for interacting with me is with the hope or expectation that I will change my mind regarding these kinds of projects, you are right in cutting this off. This is the internet. People might learn things. But they usually don't change their minds. At least not right away. It's glacial if it happens at all.

My hope in interacting with you and the other proponents of these kinds of projects is not to change your mind or get anyone to agree with me. I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

I clearly see things differently from y'all. I am trying to understand what y'all see in these projects.

Some people see fiscal benefits. I want to understand what their criteria are and how these projects are expected to meet those. So far, they seem to stick to vagaries. Maybe that's because they don't quite know what they are looking for. For some it might be because they don't want to get stuck with any particular fiscal criteria because it really isn't about making fiscal sense.

Then there are some, like you, who want them for non-fiscal benefit of the local community. I am wondering what kind of benefits you expect (e.g., how many new little leaguers) and where you come up with those expectations. I'd also like to figure out why you think this is a better use of money than letting people keep their money so they can spend it on their kids in whatever way they see fit. In ways that seem to me likely to be much more cost-effective.

I don't expect or hope to change your mind or get anyone on here to agree with me. This is the internet. That doesn't happen here. What I am hoping to try to do is figure out what goal you are pursuing and why you think these projects are a good way to get there. Maybe that information could be used to figure out some way to get you what you want without having to spend so much tax money.

Tailgate88 said:

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Has a study been done about the cost vs. benefit to the community (to include tourism dollars, hotel revenues, HOT taxes, restaurant spend, etc.) for Veteran's Park?

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I don't believe that the city utilizes cost accounting to track how much they spend for O&M at a particular facility, so the cost side of operating a particular park would be difficult to determine.

The great example of this lack of cost accounting is the $150,000 study that the Council just approved to determine what other cities charge for sanitation. Rather than base the sanitation rates on what it cost CS to provide this service, our sanitation rates will be based on what other cities pay.

On the benefits side, you would need to make a lot of assumptions about how many participants actually stay in College Station hotels. After that, you'll need to apply a magic multiplier to how many dollars are actually spent in College Station.

MeKnowNot said:

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Tailgate88 said:

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Has a study been done about the cost vs. benefit to the community (to include tourism dollars, hotel revenues, HOT taxes, restaurant spend, etc.) for Veteran's Park?

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I don't believe that the city utilizes cost accounting to track how much they spend for O&M at a particular facility, so the cost side of operating a particular park would be difficult to determine.

The great example of this lack of cost accounting is the $150,000 study that the Council just approved to determine what other cities charge for sanitation. Rather than base the sanitation rates on what it cost CS to provide this service, our sanitation rates will be based on what other cities pay.

On the benefits side, you would need to make a lot of assumptions about how many participants actually stay in College Station hotels. After that, you'll need to apply a magic multiplier to how many dollars are actually spent in College Station.

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That $150,000 study made no sense for the reasons you list but also because it seemed like something a staff with a computer could have put together.

dallasiteinsa02 said:

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MeKnowNot said:

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Tailgate88 said:

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Has a study been done about the cost vs. benefit to the community (to include tourism dollars, hotel revenues, HOT taxes, restaurant spend, etc.) for Veteran's Park?

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I don't believe that the city utilizes cost accounting to track how much they spend for O&M at a particular facility, so the cost side of operating a particular park would be difficult to determine.

The great example of this lack of cost accounting is the $150,000 study that the Council just approved to determine what other cities charge for sanitation. Rather than base the sanitation rates on what it cost CS to provide this service, our sanitation rates will be based on what other cities pay.

On the benefits side, you would need to make a lot of assumptions about how many participants actually stay in College Station hotels. After that, you'll need to apply a magic multiplier to how many dollars are actually spent in College Station.

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That $150,000 study made no sense for the reasons you list but also because it seemed like something a staff with a computer could have put together.

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I wish they had asked me. I have a computer and I would have completed this study for only $100,000, and even bought pizza and cookies for everyone when I completed and delivered it.

Pushed me over the line?

I didn't even take that comment seriously.

Heard a mooney clip on WTAW this morning - the failed site where baseball fields would have gone would be a great site to spend the necessary 10-16 million dollars to amend the soil conditions for his beloved YMCA.

farmersfight said:

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Heard a mooney clip on WTAW this morning - the failed site where baseball fields would have gone would be a great site to spend the necessary 10-16 million dollars to amend the soil conditions for his beloved YMCA.

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Why do we need a YMCA?

https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/14/new-fitness-facility-going-into-old-albertsons-building-university-drive/

Tailgate88 said:

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farmersfight said:

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Heard a mooney clip on WTAW this morning - the failed site where baseball fields would have gone would be a great site to spend the necessary 10-16 million dollars to amend the soil conditions for his beloved YMCA.

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Why do we need a YMCA?

https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/14/new-fitness-facility-going-into-old-albertsons-building-university-drive/

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Is their a pricing difference between a YMCA and a large fitness center? YMCA also has financial assistance programs for those who cannot afford.

What about differences in programs? YMCA is usually pretty involved in youth sports and after school care programs. Is there a need for more of those things that a fitness center would not provide?

Bob Yancy said:

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We have a lot of gyms. Lots of folks have risked capital to provide abundant facilities and programs to choose from.

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Where are these gyms? Gold's not that impressive and Anytime is nasty for double the cost.

All that to say, think we are covered on gyms. Leave it to the private sector. Next.

Must have been an off day when i went in. There was an issue with smell. i didn't stay to look around.

[Try again without the name calling. -Staff]

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Must have been an off day when i went in. There was an issue with smell. i didn't stay to look around.

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How long ago?

Tailgate88 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Some folks have fond memories of growing up with a _______and would like to see one here. I applaud their support for working toward their goal, it's just not one I share if there are taxpayer dollars involved.

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Carve this on the side of city hall.

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Or on the Instagram sign

You need to go back and read what I have said about the YMCA.

I see that the Southeast Park in on the new COCS CIP page as being in the design phase.

What's being designed? With the ballparks not happening, is the $23.1M still committed to this property?

Project Name
Southeast Park
Project Description
Design and construction of Southeast Park Phase 1

Project Information
Scope
PK
Total Budget
23,100,000.00
Completion Date
TBD
Project Phase
Design

Paging Bob Yancy.

I drove by a couple days ago and there is some movement going on there.