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College Station-Bryan, TX at 23.4% poverty rate. national poverty rate is 12.8%

Is this because a huge percentage of the residents are students with little to no income?

Yes that's correct

BrazosWifi said:

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Is this because a huge percentage of the residents are students with little to no income?

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This, old news... 70K students most earning $0/year or min. waged.
Most college towns are "poor". The question is why did they include Bryan in the calculations.

Because Bryan is in the Bryan-College Station MSA.

So perhaps we should judge poverty by consumption, and not by income. Students consume a lot more than their income, from the income of their parents.

tamufan said:

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So perhaps we should judge poverty by consumption, and not by income. Students consume a lot more than their income, from the income of their parents.

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It's because they consume so much they have no money left over.

I think blaming it on the student's is a cop-out. Most of the time full time students are excluded in survey data like this. Take a look at our local school districts for a real look at where we are and what the community actually reflects. Schools are a great way to judge the overall health of the community. For years, the majority in the community has assumed Bryan looks one way and College Station another. This is deeply flawed and ignores the fast changing demographics of CS.

College Station - 14,000 students of which 49% are minority (The largest groups being 14.6% African American and 23.8% Hispanic).. 37.7% of all students are economically disadvantaged and 41% labeled as "at risk." 9.5% are limited English Proficiency, meaning "English Language Learners" which is typically 1st generation or migrant. While these numbers are better than state averages, they have grown substantially over the past 10 to 15 years.

Bryan - 16,000 students of which 81% are minority (the largest groups being 18% African American and 60% Hispanic). 79% of all students are economically disadvantaged and 75% labeled as "at risk"-.28.4% are limited English Proficiency, meaning "English Language Learners" which is typically 1st generation or migrant.

The one thing that the University DOES do here is artificially depress wages. We have a constant stream of new graduates looking for jobs and many local employers are content to cycle new hires every few years to continue paying entry level wages. Texas A&M, for a large employer, has very low wages compared to market. I laugh every time I see "5 tears experience and Masters required, ....$13 per hour starting." So typical.

The next largest employers are the ISD's. A 6 to 10 year teacher in Bryan is on average $6500 lower than their state counterpart. That is 12.6% below. This gap does not close until the 25 to 30 year mark. College Station is even worse at $7700 low for 6 to 10 year teachers. That is 15,38% low.

The cities, (both of them) in key areas like public safety, pay the lowest of all of their comparable salary survey cities.

We have no real industry here or manufacturing; no host of strong blue collar jobs with six figure salaries such as those found in refineries and plants. We primarily have service industry jobs

Retirees and out of state buyers flood here (because of the university) and buy homes for cash increasing property values, making the working poor even more poor.

There's much to disagree with in this analysis, as it cherry picks statistics to support a bias. That aside, I'm going to assume you just used the wrong word choice in this assertion, "The one thing that the University DOES do here is artificially depress wages. We have a constant stream of new graduates looking for jobs and many local employers are content to cycle new hires every few years to continue paying entry level wages. Texas A&M, for a large employer, has very low wages compared to market. I laugh every time I see "5 tears experience and Masters required, ....$13 per hour starting." So typical."

First, the University doesn't do ANYTHING to impact wages. And wages aren't "depressed" artificially or otherwise. It's basic supply and demand economics. There is far more labor chasing too few jobs, leading to lower wages. Both words, "artificial" and "depress" are words of action, as if it is being done deliberately. Next, employers AREN'T "content to cycle new hires every few years to continue to pay entry level wages". Again, they pay entry level wages because the labor market is over populated with prospective employees who are willing to work for entry level wages. Employers would gladly pay more to maintain business continuity and stability (I know because we own a business here) for employees who aren't graduating in 1-4 years. And, they (we) recycle employees every few years because we can't find qualified people to do the work, and students are just smarter and more dedicated among those within the available workforce (for the record, we pay WAY above entry level). Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting". Just not true.

As for the rest of the post, yes, there is poverty in B/CS. But it's not nearly as pronounced as the data cited would indicate (presuming it's even accurate, which I doubt - meaning I doubt the validity of the data, not your recitation of it). If it were, those at the poverty level would move to cities in which opportunities are greater. You're just wrong in your premises and conclusions.

I find it strange that everyone seems to want to deny or downplay the problem instead of looking for ways to fix it. Sad.

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Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting".

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That post won't happen because it's not true. And calling it "typical"? That's just a joke.

AG81 said:

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There's much to disagree with in this analysis, as it cherry picks statistics to support a bias. That aside, I'm going to assume you just used the wrong word choice in this assertion, "The one thing that the University DOES do here is artificially depress wages. We have a constant stream of new graduates looking for jobs and many local employers are content to cycle new hires every few years to continue paying entry level wages. Texas A&M, for a large employer, has very low wages compared to market. I laugh every time I see "5 tears experience and Masters required, ....$13 per hour starting." So typical."

First, the University doesn't do ANYTHING to impact wages. And wages aren't "depressed" artificially or otherwise. It's basic supply and demand economics. There is far more labor chasing too few jobs, leading to lower wages. Both words, "artificial" and "depress" are words of action, as if it is being done deliberately. Next, employers AREN'T "content to cycle new hires every few years to continue to pay entry level wages". Again, they pay entry level wages because the labor market is over populated with prospective employees who are willing to work for entry level wages. Employers would gladly pay more to maintain business continuity and stability (I know because we own a business here) for employees who aren't graduating in 1-4 years. And, they (we) recycle employees every few years because we can't find qualified people to do the work, and students are just smarter and more dedicated among those within the available workforce (for the record, we pay WAY above entry level). Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting". Just not true.

As for the rest of the post, yes, there is poverty in B/CS. But it's not nearly as pronounced as the data cited would indicate (presuming it's even accurate, which I doubt - meaning I doubt the validity of the data, not your recitation of it). If it were, those at the poverty level would move to cities in which opportunities are greater. You're just wrong in your premises and conclusions.

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Also, College Station has a higher percentage of A&M workers than non-university or non-government centered cities. Although the pay may be somewhat lower at A&M than the private sector, the total pay package may not be too much different.

A&M pays medical and hospitalization for the employee and lower for the family than many other employers. The drug plan covers most of the cost of drugs. A&M Matches most of the TRS or Optional retirement plan's employee contribution. A&M also offers additional attractive cost AD&D, life insurance, dental insurance, eye glass partial coverage, disability insurance. Also A&M employees get both vacation time and sick leave time off and that increased with longevity. Also, there is additions to the annual salary for longevity.. Many of this benefits are offered by the private sector and in many other cities. The total value of employment is much greater than the payroll salary. And if you work your last ten years of employment with A&M, when your age+service years reach 80, you get the medical coverage free forever.

Fortunately we are starting to see some manufacturing start to appear: C&C Creations, FujiFilm, Atlas Pipe, the new shingle company, etc. we are known as an underemployed economy which hopefully this will gradually change.

crbongos said:

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Fortunately we are starting to see some manufacturing start to appear: C&C Creations, FujiFilm, Atlas Pipe, the new shingle company, etc. we are known as an underemployed economy which hopefully this will gradually change.

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You can see the increase in employment opportunities coming in most every year. It would be interesting to know what the median pay is at C&C and the other companies. Do they pay well? It always comes down to supply and demand.

What concerns me is what affect it is going to have on transportation, utilities, and infrastructure in the county. We are all ready congested in many areas and the growth is increasing at a great rate. I just don't want BCS ending up as what occurred in Austin from about 1980 to current where traffic congestion is almost unbearable. Steady, managed growth is what is needed.

Stupe said:

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Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting".

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That post won't happen because it's not true. And calling it "typical"? That's just a joke.

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As with a lot of statements, say and post it enough times, it becomes reality. "but, but, I read it on the internet."

woodiewood1 said:

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A&M pays medical and hospitalization for the employee and lower for the family than many other employers. The drug plan covers most of the cost of drugs. A&M Matches most of the TRS or Optional retirement plan's employee contribution. A&M also offers additional attractive cost AD&D, life insurance, dental insurance, eye glass partial coverage, disability insurance. Also A&M employees get both vacation time and sick leave time off and that increased with longevity. Also, there is additions to the annual salary for longevity.. Many of this benefits are offered by the private sector and in many other cities. The total value of employment is much greater than the payroll salary. And if you work your last ten years of employment with A&M, when your age+service years reach 80, you get the medical coverage free forever.

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These are pretty standard benefits for white-collar jobs at many places, not just A&M. A 7% match on ORP contributions isn't that impressive if your Admin Assistant II salary is $50,000. The $3,500 in employer contribution could easily be beat by getting a higher paying job in Houston.

WTM said:

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The cities, (both of them) in key areas like public safety, pay the lowest of all of their comparable salary survey cities.

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Where does this information come from?

Stupe said:

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Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting".

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That post won't happen because it's not true. And calling it "typical"? That's just a joke.

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$13/hour is obviously an exaggeration, but Blinn's starting pay was $42000 in 2021 for instructors with a Master's. The Board of Trustees moved it up to $45,000 for the 22-23 school year that just finished and then $52,000 for the upcoming school year. Things are tight in BCS for a family with a single income of $50k. A&M/CSISD/BISD/Blinn are the biggest employers in town, and unfortunately a career in education just does not pay much these days.

AG81 said:

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First, the University doesn't do ANYTHING to impact wages. And wages aren't "depressed" artificially or otherwise. It's basic supply and demand economics. There is far more labor chasing too few jobs, leading to lower wages. Both words, "artificial" and "depress" are words of action, as if it is being done deliberately.

I agree partly and disagree partly with this. I understand supply and demand but the university creates a supply through the largest student population in the nation that is artificial compared to the relative size of the community. I do believe it is active to some degree in that the employers know it is a market full of young job seekers who can afford to take a low paying job so they keep wages at that level. The University absolutely is below state averages for the majority of their job postings and salary survey sites such as glassdoor etc typically have them 12 to 15% below average. Then when people compare
skilled jobs and jobs requiring a degree, they tend to come up with a sliding scale of compensation.

Next, employers AREN'T "content to cycle new hires every few years to continue to pay entry level wages". Again, they pay entry level wages because the labor market is over populated with prospective employees who are willing to work for entry level wages. Employers would gladly pay more to maintain business continuity and stability (I know because we own a business here)

Good for you. I can assure you that you are the anomaly. The school districts and cities need bodies in seats and can fill that body with a newly trained / newly graduated employee. The cost of training and the value of experience is not truly considered overall. You said it yourself - "the marked it overpopulated with employees who are willing to work for entry level wages." They know this and that is why effort is not made for raises to stay to market competitive on the back end and the those with experience leave seeking job markets elsewhere in the state with higher pay.

I do not know what your business is, but as stated, the University, ISD's and Cities pay below market here as do the skilled trades. For example, when I built my office, I was talking to some of the subs and the young man who had just received his master plumbing license was making $18 an hour. A friend of mine from Houston came down with his crew and put my AC in over a weekend. He makes $48 an hour running commercial AC crews and his helpers are all $27 an hour guys. The AC techs I know locally who do their own installs are making under $20 yet the cost of construction is not less here than the suburbs of Houston.

Lastly, I challenge you to post a SINGLE job posting requiring "5 years experience and a Master's......$13 per hour starting". Just not true.

This is slightly an exaggeration but not completely. When my wife worked for the University they listed most jobs online with pay, now almost all state "commensurate." However, Her job 5 years ago was bachelor's required / masters preferred and sub $15. A very close friend who started at A&M less than 10 years ago in admissions with a masters started at $12.50. There are currently 254 jobs posted; I did not go through all of them, but there are some bachelors required for $7.54 an hour and $8.50 and hour, and several "masters preferred / PhD preferred" that glassdoor lists a starting base of $38k to $54k. While not $15 per hour, it is in the $18 to $25 and now we have added in a PhD. Unintended consequence of lots of education / not many jobs.

As for the rest of the post, yes, there is poverty in B/CS. But it's not nearly as pronounced as the data cited would indicate (presuming it's even accurate, which I doubt - meaning I doubt the validity of the data, not your recitation of it). If it were, those at the poverty level would move to cities in which opportunities are greater. You're just wrong in your premises and conclusions.

There is extreme poverty here. Maybe you just live in a bubble and do not see it. College Station has low income housing hidden in every corner from Baron Rd North to the Bryan city line. The list of "bad" apartment complexes is staggering and the violent crime rate matches. As for the date on the school, go research it yourself; I assure you it is accurate. Check: Schools.Texastribune.org and TEA.Texas.gov

As for your last statement, "those at the poverty level would move to cities in which opportunities are greater." That is one of the most entitled things I have ever heard and shows just how out of touch you really are. Moving takes resources - transportation, coordination, money for deposits and the move itself, research, is their family here?, their community / social safety net?, are their children in school here? Generational poverty is real, it is crippling and it is extremely difficult for most to overcome. Some can find a way out and do on their own, but it is difficult. Most will not have the education / resources / opportunity to do so.

As a community the problem needs to be addressed. Expecting the poor to just "move if it's bad, and if they don't that is proof things are fine" is asinine.

You are just wrong in your premise and conclusions. I too am a business owner and I also have first hand personal experience with one of our local ISD's and cities. I am not wrong on their approach to employment and lack of retention of experienced personnel through pay raises and market competitiveness.

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This is slightly an exaggeration but not completely.

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In your post, you didn't insinuate that it was an exaggeration. You said you laughed every time that you saw it. And then called it typical. Saying that you "saw" it insinuates fact.

That isn't exaggerating. It's making up facts to make a point.

My dad called that a lie when I was growing up.

Is this really productive? Didn't he just give some examples that are $15 to $20 an hour for bachelors/Masters degree positions? He exaggerated for effect yes, but trying to debate what constitutes an exaggeration vs a lie isn't productive to the post, which is about a study finding high poverty rates in our area.

Wouldn't it make sense for low income populations to gravitate to where better paying jobs were available?

SAC4311 said:

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Is this really productive? Didn't he just give some examples that are $15 to $20 an hour for bachelors/Masters degree positions? He exaggerated for effect yes, but trying to debate what constitutes an exaggeration vs a lie isn't productive to the post, which is about a study finding high poverty rates in our area.

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No, he didn't provide a single posting. He just said they were there. You both accept the study as fact. I disagree that the study is factual. It's as useful as those "studies" that rank universities. They start with built in biases then find the data to support the bias.

Methinks he, and you, doth protest too much.

The OP created a thought provoking discussion.
I look forward to the continuation of it based on real data.

You say you disagree that the study is factual, specifically which numbers do you think are made up?

Bucketrunner said:

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Wouldn't it make sense for low income populations to gravitate to where better paying jobs were available?

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I don't know about that. Seems like parts of every city are historically poor. Why do the poor continue to live there and not gravitate to areas with more jobs? No-work welfare requirements might actually contribute to poverty instead of alleviating it.

Poverty is a much bigger problem than little old BCS, IMHO.

SAC4311 said:

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Is this really productive? Didn't he just give some examples that are $15 to $20 an hour for bachelors/Masters degree positions? He exaggerated for effect yes, but trying to debate what constitutes an exaggeration vs a lie isn't productive to the post, which is about a study finding high poverty rates in our area.

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So, in your opinion, it's ok to exaggerate or lie to twist a story to fit an agenda?

The truth isn't relative? Or important?
Or productive?

You and everyone that stars don't care if someone is telling the truth?

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Didn't he just give some examples that are $15 to $20 an hour for bachelors/Masters degree positions?

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That is not what he said. What he said was $13. $1 an hour difference is about $2K year. That's a 4k - 14K difference from the $13 / hr that was in the first quote.

I understand that accuracy in an argument doesn't matter to you, but I deem it important.

And if someone is going to exaggerate or lie about something small, what will they do when it's big?

cslifer said:

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You say you disagree that the study is factual, specifically which numbers do you think are made up?

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Goodness, reading comprehension problems? I never said anything was "made up". The "study" took one data point and draws conclusions from that. I challenge the assertion that the poverty rate is that high in BCS. The poverty here is greater than that in Laredo, or Odessa, or El Paso? Total bovine manure. Look at the other cities on that list with lower poverty rates. Ever been to any of them? There's no way BCS has a poverty rate higher than them. Lastly, according to the US census bureau, the statewide poverty rate for Texas is 14.22%. Does anyone honestly believe the poverty rate in BCS is nearly double that? Again, total bovine manure.

First, I will confess that I am not a real estate expert, nor am I am economist. I presume, it is due to section 8 housing and the partnerships with the "hot" apartment complexes from yesteryear. The more that the students get more and more of the latest and greatest high-rise living options, the Sundances', Polo Clubs and University Oaks and many more have a certain type of tenant.

The entire area between Harvey and Southwest Parkway is a hot mess. More to come.

Hahaha now we are doing personal attacks? You said the study is not factual which last I checked means not true. So again, specifically what numbers are not true? All you have presented is your opinion that we don't have as much poverty as other places on this list because those places look different. Do you have any numbers to prove your opinion?

Where are your facts then? If all you have is your feelings on the matter at least admit it. YOUR the one protesting the posted article here

The truth is important, an exaggeration is no different a lie than anyone on here saying the posted article for discussion isn't true without bringing forward proof to the contrary

cslifer said:

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Hahaha now we are doing personal attacks? You said the study is not factual which last I checked means not true. So again, specifically what numbers are not true? All you have presented is your opinion that we don't have as much poverty as other places on this list because those places look different. Do you have any numbers to prove your opinion?

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Yes, I do! First, you need to exercise any critical thinking skills you have. Again, you really believe B/CS has a higher poverty rate than Laredo, Odessa, or El Paso? That didn't cause you to wonder about the validity of the data?

The Census Bureau, from which the study came, says ON THEIR WEBSITE, "Students living on campus are not included in the poverty universe and therefore do not impact poverty rates.". There are about 70,000 students at A&M, only 11,000 live on campus, so the poverty rate includes about 60,000 students who do not. B/CS has under 300,000 residents without students, so those 60,000 students included in that study wildly skew the real numbers. But those facts don't convince you the data is false?

Okay, how about a peer reviewed study by A&M economists that recalculate the poverty rate removing the student population? Here's where you'll find numbers, "College Towns: Handle Data With Care", Dr. Dennis Jansen as the lead author. Dr. Jansen is a world renown economist. Maybe you'd believe him. I'd add a link but you've proven you're not interested in facts. Look it up if you dare. Intellectual curiosity is a valuable habit. You need to develop yours.

So we just shouldn't count students? I guess I forgot that they aren't people and can't be poor. In that study he is "calculating a modified poverty rate among non students". Cool. The problem with that is that the students are A.) people and B.) live here. I am sorry it bothers you so much but we have a lot of students and some of them happen to be below the poverty line.
Additionally, even using his "modified poverty rate" BCS is STILL has more people below the poverty line as compared to the state average of 14 ish percent you quoted above.
Let's also not forget that quote a few students, on and off campus, aren't counted as living here by the census. Many are counted as living in their home towns for a variety of reasons.

I agree their numbers are skewed. The student pop has always skewed the numbers here, ever since they started counting them in the census data.