bobinator said:

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I'm not sure anyone has said he was first and foremost a racist. But I agree that I'm not sure we can take one black person's eulogy of Ross as hard evidence that he was loved by most black people at the time either.

It's also worth noting that this conversation has mostly taken place through the lens of the recent 'Black Lives Matter' movement so a large chunk has centered on Ross's being in the confederacy, but part of his historical legacy involves his treatment and actions during confrontations with the native Americans as well, something that is noted in this eulogy/poem:

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On many a stubborn field of blood,
He met the savage foe,
He dealt the fierce Comanche,
The fearful, fatal blow.

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That's not to say everything he did was bad, or everything he did was good, but just another part of a complicated legacy for the man.

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Replace Comanche with Germans or Japanese if it was 1943. The Comanches were invaders from elsewhere, and other tribes assisted in the efforts to rid Texas of them. So that was a good thing. Most of us no longer want to kill Germans and Japanese now either.

And those who want to remove Sully say the allegedly racist part of his life overshshows everything else. So a logical person can infer that they think Sully was a racist first and foremost. It overshadows everything else he did in their minds, dominates their view of him - first and foremost.

bobinator said:

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I did not make a straw man argument.

This is from the OP:

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Mr. Blackshear was arguably the most prominent African American man in Texas at the time. He was certainly the most notable black educator. He had been appointed "principal" of Prairie View State Normal & Industrial College (Prairie View A&M) in 1896.

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Quote:

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find it interesting that Mr. Blackshear should gush so over a dead man that could do him no harm and to whom he owed no debt. What would motivate Mr. Blackshear to write this eulogy? Could it have been genuine friendship and admiration? Sully was not a perfect man, but he was a leader who was much admired in his day and without whom Texas A&M would not exist.

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So this isn't a straw man. That is literally what he's saying.

What I'm saying is that a eulogy from one person isn't evidence of anything.

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And what a lot of us are saying is that the eulogy of one person at the time, a black person at that, carries more weight as evidence than the politically correct history revisionists of today, 125 years later. Until we know how other blacks at the time felt about him through their own words, then a sample of 1 is all we have, it's all the evidence we have.

bobinator said:

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I did not make a straw man argument.

This is from the OP:

Quote:

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Mr. Blackshear was arguably the most prominent African American man in Texas at the time. He was certainly the most notable black educator. He had been appointed "principal" of Prairie View State Normal & Industrial College (Prairie View A&M) in 1896.

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Quote:

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find it interesting that Mr. Blackshear should gush so over a dead man that could do him no harm and to whom he owed no debt. What would motivate Mr. Blackshear to write this eulogy? Could it have been genuine friendship and admiration? Sully was not a perfect man, but he was a leader who was much admired in his day and without whom Texas A&M would not exist.

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So this isn't a straw man. That is literally what he's saying.

What I'm saying is that a eulogy from one person isn't evidence of anything.

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Your response is infantile and obtuse. The eulogy speaks for itself. It's quite powerful to reasonable people. Not sure you fit that description.

You said the following above:

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I'm not sure we can take one black person's eulogy of Ross as hard evidence that he was loved by most black people at the time either.

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That is a classic straw man. Literally NO ONE has made the argument you are refuting. Nor would they! Your clear implication is that it is somehow a requirement. Ross was a great man without the love of "most black people", even if he did not have it, which we will never, ever know. Nor do we need to know. What we DO know, is he in fact did enjoy the love of THIS one black man. And that surely mattered to them both!

You should consider cogitating more and speaking less. It would serve you well....

bobinator said:

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I'm not sure how my posts on here are upsetting you so much, I'm not even arguing for taking down the statue. I'm just arguing for everyone to consider it and decide for themselves.

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My friend, you've really got the passive-aggressive thing down. I'm just playing devil's advocate and want people to see all sides and make up their own minds.

After the OP, there have been 45 comments, 17 of which are from you (almost 40%).

My advice: Stop pretending to be a dispassionate 3rd party and have the stones to stand up for what you really believe, and argue accordingly.