Judge: Texas Central is NOT a railroad

veritas47
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LANDOWNER VICTORY: SECOND JUDGE DENIES TEXAS CENTRAL RAILWAY'S REQUEST TO BE DECLARED RAILROAD
http://www.texansagainsthsr.com/press-release-january-30-2019/
veritas47
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Ellis County, Texas Last Friday, Ellis County landowners Ronny Caldwell, William Getzendaner, and Darren Eagle celebrated another devastating blow to Texas Central Railway's ill-advised high-speed rail project. In Ellis County where Texas Central has sued more than ten landowners Judge Jim Chapman denied Texas Central's motion for a summary judgment order declaring that Texas Central qualifies as a railroad company under Texas law. As it stands, Texas Central still has no legal right to enter onto private property, nor does it have the right to force landowners to sell their property under the threat of eminent domain. In short, everything Texas Central has been telling landowners and the public for the past three years continues to be proven false in courtrooms up and down the proposed HSR corridor. Hopefully now, after losing in court again, Texas Central will finally realize that in Texas merely saying you are a railroad doesn't mean that you are a railroad.

Landowner Ronny Caldwell said he is pleased with the ruling, especially since this is the second time he has been sued by the promoters of the proposed HSR. "Texas Central sued me back in 2016, then dropped the lawsuit after I hired an attorney and filed my papers. Then they sued me again in 2018. For years, I've been asking them to show me proof they are a railroad with eminent domain. They never could. And as it turns out, they couldn't prove it in court either."
LastHamlet
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Our public transportation is such an embarrassment. It's pathetic.
veritas47
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This isn't public transportation. Its transportation for the wealthy according to the average ticket price the Japanese funded "Texas" Central "Railway" posted in the DEIS of $400 for a round trip from Houston to Dallas.
powerbelly
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AG
This boondoggle needs to go away.
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air
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Sad to see soo many against building a train that would get ppl from Dallas to Houston about as fast & safe as possible.

Maybe one day pending success of this Train- we'll have something that should have been built decades ago expanded to more cities..

.
powerbelly
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Is sad to see so many against building a train that would get ppl from Dallas to Houston about as fast & safe as possible.

Maybe one day pending success of this Train- we'll have something that should have been built decades ago expanded to more cities

.
Maybe there are still people left who have respect for private property rights.

agrab86
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AG
I agree that this is a boondoggle and needs to go away. But how is this different than a similar summary judgement ruling from 2 years ago? That one didn't stop their efforts so how is this different?
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air
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powerbelly said:

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Is sad to see so many against building a train that would get ppl from Dallas to Houston about as fast & safe as possible.

Maybe one day pending success of this Train- we'll have something that should have been built decades ago expanded to more cities

.
Maybe there are still people left who have respect for private property rights.




Trains make ppl both rich & greedy, what percentage of train progress gets held up by those two things on basis of property rights ?
powerbelly
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

powerbelly said:

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Is sad to see so many against building a train that would get ppl from Dallas to Houston about as fast & safe as possible.

Maybe one day pending success of this Train- we'll have something that should have been built decades ago expanded to more cities

.
Maybe there are still people left who have respect for private property rights.




Trains make ppl both rich & greedy, what percentage of train progress gets held up by those two things on basis of property rights ?
Hopefully all of it.

Guess how many high speed train routes are profitable in the world?

The answer is 2, and both are out of Tokyo. They rest require massive government assistance. We don't need a high speed train now, or ever.
veritas47
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"Texas" Central "Rail" is trying to import technology from the 1960s with an updated facade in order to get taxpayers to pay for Japan to get ownership of 8000 acres of Texas farmland. Its a scam. Why build a system that has exactly ONE option for you to choose when there are existing systems with hundreds of destination options to choose from (airlines)? Its a dozen steps backwards (billions if you include the taxpayer funded and guaranteed loans TCR is planning to use to build & operate this fraud).
veritas47
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Actually the two HSR in Tokyo that operate in the black were built by the Japanese government then given to the company who operates them. So, if you count the absence of construction debt service as a government subsidy, then ALL high speed railways in the world require government subsidy to stay afloat.
75AG
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AG
Does that also apply to those property rights on the border?
powerbelly
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veritas47 said:

Actually the two HSR in Tokyo that operate in the black were built by the Japanese government then given to the company who operates them. So, if you count the absence of construction debt service as a government subsidy, then ALL high speed railways in the world require government subsidy to stay afloat.
True, but at the very least they operate in the black. That can't be said for any other line build by the government and handed over to private operators.
powerbelly
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75AG said:

Does that also apply to those property rights on the border?
Generally yes, but national security carries a different level of public interest than a high speed passenger train. But you already know that.
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air
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Guess my point is, No one here has a dog in the fight, no one here is probably going to actually have to "pay" or "do" anything. ( especially if we can't pay for a ticket in the future)

But yet so many are against the idea of a single train from Dallas to Houston for X reasons...

Perhaps not a very neighborly thing to do-

Thats all - Off to Save the World from High Energy Bills today folks!

Have a Great Day!
75AG
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powerbelly said:

75AG said:

Does that also apply to those property rights on the border?
Generally yes, but national security carries a different level of public interest than a high speed passenger train. But you already know that.
I don't know about a national security interest. I wish the State of Texas would join the 21st century.
powerbelly
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Guess my point is, No one here has a dog in the fight, no one here is probably going to actually have to "pay" or "do" anything. ( especially if we can't pay for a ticket in the future)
We all have a dog in the fight because this WILL have to be bailed out by our tax dollars. The fact that you can't see this isn't too shocking.
veritas47
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Guess my point is, No one here has a dog in the fight, no one here is probably going to actually have to "pay" or "do" anything. ( especially if we can't pay for a ticket in the future)

As a Grimes County resident whose property values will tank but Grimes County will be responsible for maintaining the train access road TCR so generously wants to donate to the county, I have a dog in this fight. As a taxpayer who'll be responsible for bailing out this 21st century Enron, you do too.

Quote:

But yet so many are against the idea of a single train from Dallas to Houston for X reasons...
Perhaps not a very neighborly thing to do-

It's a scam designed to use taxpayer dollars to pay off investors before any dirt gets disturbed. I don't think trying to steal land is terribly neighborly. Maybe if EcoZapp was told y'all had to provide and maintain HVAC for 5 cents on the dollar for "economic development", you'd see things differently.
rich1
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I have a dog in this fight. I would really like to keep my rural property in Limestone county that they want to take.
mrg0901
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So a train that went from DFW - IAH with branches or stops to DAL and HOU, that would make the most sense. Otherwise, you are competing with planes and automobiles. Both of which offer more convenience than a train could (Even get a free feel - up from TSA)
Stupe
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S
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Guess my point is, No one here has a dog in the fight, no one here is probably going to actually have to "pay" or "do" anything. ( especially if we can't pay for a ticket in the future)

But yet so many are against the idea of a single train from Dallas to Houston for X reasons...

Perhaps not a very neighborly thing to do-

Thats all - Off to Save the World from High Energy Bills today folks!

Have a Great Day!
That train is proposed to go through Waller, Grimes, Madison, and Leon counties. Do you really think that there aren't people on here that would be affected by it? Do you have any idea how many people in this area own land in those counties?
Stupe
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LastHamlet said:

Our public transportation is such an embarrassment. It's pathetic.
In some of the larger cities, I agree.

This is NOT public transportation.
Muzzleblast
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I live in Cross a few miles from where this would pass.

I know a few people with a dog in the fight. One will lose his home and have his property divided.

I've failed to locate one supporter around here. Folks just want to be left alone. If it can be built without eminent domain condemnation then fine but a private business should never have this authority.

Eminent domain should be reserved for national security issues like that thing on the border that the bad orange man wants to construct keeping bad folk away.
Stupe
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S
I've come to the conclusion that there are two groups of people that want this thing:

  • Investors that will directly profit from it before the tax payers have to foot the bill for a "privately owned" project
  • People that aren't investors that are foolish enough to think that the latter won't happen and that it will be used enough to pay for itself.
Stupe
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rich1 said:

I have a dog in this fight. I would really like to keep my rural property in Limestone county that they want to take.
It cracks me up how some people are so clueless about who posts on this website.
veritas47
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Its disappointing that NONE of the local media picked up the story in almost a week since the verdict was handed down. Nothing on KBTX, WTAW, KAGS nor The Eagle.

Did they call "Texas" Central "Rail" and get somebody who said the Judge didn't really mean what he said? Or was the message lost in translation from Japanese to English?
veritas47
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Texas Central Partners is doing all it can to create the appearance that the Dallas to Houston high-speed rail project is "on-track" (pun intended), but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, there are many more unanswered questions about this proposed project than answered ones. To outline just a few:

Is the funding secured?
Are the ridership estimates accurate?
Are the cost projections realistic?
Will taxpayers have to bail out the project?
What are the real impacts on landowners and communities along the route?

What TCP's glossy brochures and rosy projections don't mention are the real concerns and risks that underlie this speculative venture. High-speed passenger rail depends on two factors for ridership: low rates of car ownership and high population densities. All high-speed rail line across Europe and Asia lose money but two two with extremely high residential densities and low rates of car ownership (Tokyo to Osaka and Paris to Lyon). Dallas and Houston simply do NOT fit the bill. Objective analysis leads to the inevitable conclusion that huge financial gaps exist between TCP's projections and reality and that taxpayers will end up paying the price to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.
Goat Man
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AG
Reading this thread makes me smile. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the train is a stupid idea. I know people that will lose land assuming it ever gets built. Unfortunately they are resigned to it because of eminent domain. And i can't figure out how the hell this group would ever procure eminent domain. It is beyond absurd.
aggiepublius
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veritas47 said:

Its disappointing that NONE of the local media picked up the story in almost a week since the verdict was handed down. Nothing on KBTX, WTAW, KAGS nor The Eagle.

Did they call "Texas" Central "Rail" and get somebody who said the Judge didn't really mean what he said? Or was the message lost in translation from Japanese to English?
It seems that nobody in the entire state found the judge's ruling newsworthy including the Waxahachie paper.

02skiag
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I think the majority of Texans think the idea is "neat" and they aren't directly affected by it. I really don't see enough demand for it, but maybe I'm missing something. I'd like to see some data on that.
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air
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So moral of the story, in 20 years from now Texas will be another 20 years less advantaged when it comes to Transportation or fast moving trains.

It's not the idea of "This Train", but some of ya'll are going to be against each and every Train based on some argument.

- If Elon Musk said let's build a Train instead of some company from Japan- would that make all the difference in a Train? Cuz now we're just hating on some company from Japan just cuz they're from Japan it sounds..

They know mass transport- Texas is still trying to figure out and keep up with road construction over the past couple decades. Anyone driven down any Hwy's or Interstates lately in Texas? and here we are arguing about a train, and many proud to not have one/ will always drag down an idea like this.
BrazosWifi
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

So moral of the story, in 20 years from now Texas will be another 20 years less advantaged when it comes to Transportation or fast moving trains.

It's not the idea of "This Train", but some of ya'll are going to be against each and every Train based on some argument.

- If Elon Musk said let's build a Train instead of some company from Japan- would that make all the difference in a Train? Cuz now we're just hating on some company from Japan just cuz they're from Japan it sounds..

They know mass transport- Texas is still trying to figure out and keep up with road construction over the past couple decades. Anyone driven down any Hwy's or Interstates lately in Texas? and here we are arguing about a train, and many proud to not have one/ will always drag down an idea like this.

So, private property rights aren't a concern here?

How would you feel about some other AC company trying to steal your equipment?
dubi
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Are you up-to-date on the high speed train cost fiasco in California?
Tailgate88
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Why in the heck would anyone pay $400 to ride that thing when they can hop a Southwest flight for $220 round trip?

I'd be happy if they'd just bring back the Amtrak. It was awesome hopping a train to Dallas for the weekend and I believe the fares were $35? I'm sure taxpayers were taking a hit on that too though...
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