Judge: Texas Central is NOT a railroad

17,404 Views | 121 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by techno-ag
TXAGBQ76
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AG
So if your theory is true, why do the real railroads using existing already paid fir infrasructure not have passenger service between Houston College Station Roans Prairie and Dallas? Maybe because it is not profitable?

End of the day, if no one has to involuntarily give up their private property at below market value (or at all) if they do not want to and it is paid for by the Texas Central folks (i.e. zero public funding). I say go for it. After all, if your expert economic analysis based on your years of studying railroad businesses) is true, there should be no issue. Those thousands of people a day traveling to Dallas, Houston and Roans Prairie will pay for it in no time at all.

I'm assuming you are willing to dump a ton of yours billions into this money making venture-right?
The Brazos Kid
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Here's the solution: Build it underground primarily. Have above ground stops at Bucees in Madisonville, Sam's restaurant in Fairfield and Collin Street Bakery in Corsicana.

I'll be here all week providing 21st century solutions to the Lone Star State's transportation needs...

(Edit for the punctuation nazis)
TXAggie1976
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AG
Are you all aware that State Rep. John Raney was just appointed to the State Legislative committee of Transportation? The Legislature is in Session now and we have a front row rep... on the committee.
Stupe
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S
I voted for him, but Raney is going to do what is in the best interest of Raney.
TimsParents
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S
Why not build it down the median of I-45, the state already owns it..
Gig'Em & God Bless
cslifer
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You do realize this is a PRIVATE project don't you?
BQ_90
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AG
cslifer said:

You do realize this is a PRIVATE project don't you?
Then why are they wanting govt backed loans
cslifer
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Wanting government backed loans in no way makes you a government entity. There are tons of loans out there the government back for private companies and individuals. I got an FHA loan for my house, I am still a private citizen.
I was replying to the poster above you that suggested building in the ROW of 45. As a private enterprise they would have to lease or buy that land from the state, which opens up a whole other can of worms and legal issues.
BQ_90
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cslifer said:

Wanting government backed loans in no way makes you a government entity. There are tons of loans out there the government back for private companies and individuals. I got an FHA loan for my house, I am still a private citizen.
I was replying to the poster above you that suggested building in the ROW of 45. As a private enterprise they would have to lease or buy that land from the state, which opens up a whole other can of worms and legal issues.
But it's clear this project will never make money so guess who's assumes paying off the loans?

They can't use i45 because of the over passes.
cslifer
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Of course the tax payers would be stuck holding the bag, nobody is arguing that. I was just pointing out that a private company such as Texas Central is not going to be allowed to build in the ROW owned by txdot.
EMY92
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AG
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

The Part about
Quote:

Initial investors own the vacant Northwest Mall, a large portion of the abandoned Bluebonnet Golf Club and some worthless real estate in the ghetto south of downtown Dallas. The proposed route connects those dots.
seems like a good thing, or better thing.. What does the majority of land between the two cities consist of?





Turning a bunch of low value properties into high value real estate is part of the gamble I bet!

Anyone ever play monoploy? gotta have all the railroads for them to be worth anything.




How does the railroad going through an area increase the property values?

It's not like you'll be able to get off of the train to shop or eat.
AggiePhil
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AG
Trust the planners.
Stupe
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S
He just used Monopoly as an example.

He's either trolling or completely clueless.

Either is valid reason to stop responding to him.
woodiewood1
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

If the government takes land it to build a track to give " the established railroads" would that make it ok?


The could run that high speed RR right down either I45 from DFW to Houston w/o affecting anyone's private property. Run either down the middle or to one side with elevated rail lines over the existing overpasses. Wouldn't have to affect any existing private property.
techno-ag
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:


- But with the property rights argument we may never have a train to connect major Texas cities in our lifetime. - Is that the answer? because thats not a good answer either. Lets just stick to gas, more road construction and the millions of additional ppl migrating to Texas on the roadways over the next two decades.
For the record I just want to mention we have had passenger rail service connecting major Texas cities. Amtrak's Texas Eagle from SA to Chicago with stops in Austin & the Dallas area.

https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/texas-eagle-train

But there are no high speed rail systems in the world that are not operating or in existence without massive government assistance. The Texas HSR plan is a huge taxpayer boondoggle and will hopefully die soon.
rjclass91
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Sad to see soo many against building a train that would get ppl from Dallas to Houston about as fast & safe as possible.

Maybe one day pending success of this Train- we'll have something that should have been built decades ago expanded to more cities..

.
Route and this company is the issue with HSR. HSR is a great safe system but you only get to do it right once. This is being built by real estate folks vs transportation folks. So route benefits real estate members of the TCP. The Midstop in roans Prairie can over whelm our ISD with just 500-1500 kids in short time. Where if it went to CS then adding 2000 kids in CS and B ISD would be a blimp. We have schools with 150-800 kids in the entire school. HSR works when
governments subsidize the ticket cost.
The cost to drive is high due to fuel cost and tolls. 45 is free and gas is 2 bucks vs EU
Ties into local mass transit- This one fails
Local transit is actual modern - This one fails on a epic scale
When it takes avg door to door time for HSR of 3.5 hours then you are not going to get to many people to pay 80-200 bucks each way. Plus parking cost/uber/dealing wtih Houston traffic getting to and from station.
rjclass91
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So they cant survey? That means no TCEQ survey which means no FEIS or ROD. They have been trying to survey all the land for 3 years and still to this day cannot survey without landowners permission. TCP is becoming a total joke. If building this system you would think the right to survey would be one of the first things to do in order to do the NEPA process? Maybe thats why TCP thought sales tax was collected on ticket sales and included that in the 2.5 bil number they tout. FYI no sales tax on train tickets!!! Yeah thats the folks yall are wanting to build this system? Money is in the construction and the TOD and not the Passenger. But we are told passenger will make money at farebox.
rjclass91
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BQ_90 said:

cslifer said:

.
But it's clear this project will never make money so guess who's assumes paying off the loans?

They can't use i45 because of the over passes.

Sorry when they are going to be 100 ft in the air in Houston overpasses on 45 is not the cause. They cant go 205 on 45. They dont even want to use 45 for 20 miles. But if built on 45 add maybe 20 minutes to the trip. INfrastructure is in place to support stops every 5-10 years. But Roans Prairie is a total joke.
techno-ag
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woodiewood1 said:

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

If the government takes land it to build a track to give " the established railroads" would that make it ok?


The could run that high speed RR right down either I45 from DFW to Houston w/o affecting anyone's private property. Run either down the middle or to one side with elevated rail lines over the existing overpasses. Wouldn't have to affect any existing private property.

And the first time a car runs into the grassy median and hits a support post, the whole thing comes to a halt. We all know cars on the Interstate never go off the pavement.
rjclass91
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powerbelly said:

veritas47 said:

Actually the two HSR in Tokyo that operate in the black were built by the Japanese government then given to the company who operates them. So, if you count the absence of construction debt service as a government subsidy, then ALL high speed railways in the world require government subsidy to stay afloat.
True, but at the very least they operate in the black. That can't be said for any other line build by the government and handed over to private operators.
But even today Tokyo line doesnt pay 100% of new construction cost. They make lease payments to a government agency that build it out. Then the difference of lease payments and actual cost is borne by the local and central governments. So still operates with a subsidy
rjclass91
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

With this mind set- theres going to be select landowners with pasture land that will hold up progress for big projects like this in for Texas forever.

Trains aren't very wide and this one apparently goes fast- I bet the landowners could find means to adjust in life ( I think there's usually a bit of money for selling land to a train, and maybe more for those fighting the longest/hardest )

- But with the property rights argument we may never have a train to connect major Texas cities in our lifetime. - Is that the answer? because thats not a good answer either. Lets just stick to gas, more road construction and the millions of additional ppl migrating to Texas on the roadways over the next two decades.
The CEO was quoted as saying the ROW would be 100-400 ft wide. You do know 45 at the Beltway 8 intersection is only 350ish feet from outside feeder to outside feeder. The property value along that area is HUGE where HSR will only have its pockets. of density but due to crappy schools and such folks are not wanting to live near the end in Houston.
Turf96
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Somlet me get this straight. We want to make it faster to get from Houston to Dallas? We don't have the money or the land to do it? It will cost $400 a ticket as opposed to $200 on a plain? We cover up thousands of productive acres of land to move concrete inhabiting rats at a faster pace? Seems like a no brainer to me we must build this thing.

Honestly never heard of a dumber idea in my life. Destroy a bunch of land to move peasants around the state. Hope this thing is dead and gone after this but it is too stupid of an idea not to come back up again.
EcoZapp.AC&Air.Purifiers
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Overall that's a solid arguement.
saltydog13
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AG
This has to be a troll job by now
Tim Weaver
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In 20 years we'll all have access to self driving cars. You could nap on your way to Dallas and arrive exactly where you need to be. For that matter you could go to San Antonio, or Oklahoma City, or the Grand Canyon, etc, etc.

Who exactly is commuting between Houston and Dallas anyway?

Just like every good mystery all you need to do is "follow the money" to find out where the motivation lies.
BQ_90
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AG
The big question is who's gonna pay $100 or more to commute from Grimes Co to NW mall, then pay even more commute to their office. EVERDAY. Morons for this project are selling that bull****
halibut sinclair
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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

Overall that's a solid arguement.
Someone hacked EGOZapp's account. Although they still can't spell.
veritas47
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I saw where the Japanese funded "Texas" Central "Rail" has announced another company has been hired to oversee the construction of this real estate scam. If they haven't turned a single shovel-full of dirt, why can't they keep any engineering or construction companies under contract to build? Are they not paying for the work already done? And its JCR's third CEO.
veritas47
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FIFY...
Texomatic said:

I'll be here all week providing 19th century solutions to the Lone Star State's transportation needs...
techno-ag
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AG
https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Leon-County-residents-celebrating-district-judges-ruling-on-proposed-bullet-train-505693511.html
rich1
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-to-pull-plug-on-billion-dollar-bullet-train-cites-ballooning-costs
farmerJohnny
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I will be impacted by this high speed rail, as it goes within a mile or so of my property.
I grew up in Europe and I know what mass transit means, but it just does not work here in Texas. No matter what, people will need private transportation to/from train stations. It just doesn't make sense to take a train from College Station to Dallas or Houston, when you would need someone to drive you to the train station (or park there and pay parking), then rent a car once you arrive in Dallas. All that waiting and extra $$ makes it a lot cheaper to just drive your own car.
Even so, lets say it does make sense, and lets assume that it will be feasible, my biggest issue is why are they trying to take more land? There are already so many railroad tracks and rights of way between Houston and Dallas, why do we need to take and divide land even further? Build it along an existing railroad, as you would not need to forcefully take people's land.
doubledog
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woodiewood1 said:

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

If the government takes land it to build a track to give " the established railroads" would that make it ok?


The could run that high speed RR right down either I45 from DFW to Houston w/o affecting anyone's private property. Run either down the middle or to one side with elevated rail lines over the existing overpasses. Wouldn't have to affect any existing private property.


The bullet trains are electric and need high voltage power feeds, such as the one that runs through Grimes, eastern Madison, eastern Leon counties, etc.
milner79
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TimsParents said:

Why not build it down the median of I-45, the state already owns it..
Too many curves in the route for a train that travels that fast, is what I was told by a rep when I asked the same question.

(Never thought I'd say this) Hope today's action in California brings Texas leadership to its senses.
aggiepublius
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farmerJohnny said:

I will be impacted by this high speed rail, as it goes within a mile or so of my property.
I grew up in Europe and I know what mass transit means, but it just does not work here in Texas. No matter what, people will need private transportation to/from train stations. It just doesn't make sense to take a train from College Station to Dallas or Houston, when you would need someone to drive you to the train station (or park there and pay parking), then rent a car once you arrive in Dallas. All that waiting and extra $$ makes it a lot cheaper to just drive your own car.
Even so, lets say it does make sense, and lets assume that it will be feasible, my biggest issue is why are they trying to take more land? There are already so many railroad tracks and rights of way between Houston and Dallas, why do we need to take and divide land even further? Build it along an existing railroad, as you would not need to forcefully take people's land.

While I don't disagree with your stance on the train, I am not sure all your assertions about whether it will work in Houston and Dallas may be correct for the younger generations.

The rise of Uber/Lyft/etc have radically changed how people in cities - including the big ones in Texas - are traveling. If the airports - and the cab and limo companies - continue to try to lock out Uber &co from airport drop-offs and pick-ups as they have in many places, it may backfire on them.

A model like the Ground Shuttle shouldn't have worked initially and many people doubted it when it launched in BCS. Uber and Lyft are the next version of that. I know I have taken hour+ Uber trips with others at business conferences where I didn't need a car at the conference. This was cheaper than each of us using the local version of "Ground Shuttle". At our destination, we either walked, Ubered or took a cab.

The problem with all the projections - both pro and con - is that this is new model for the States. Nobody has done this. Amtrak doesn't fit as it was much too slow. The arguments based on the other railroads doesn't work because they are focused on competing not to carry passengers but with the pipelines. That is where they are making all their profits and as pipelines are blocked, they railroads are doubling down on carrying chemicals that need to be transported.

Some on both sides point to the availability of airlines like SWA for cheap trips between Houston and Dallas. The problem there is that it often ignores the fact that IAH and DFW are 15 miles from city centers. People point to Love and Hobby as the competition for the train where folks don't rent cars at their destination. For Hobby that is definitely not a good option for about half of Houston. It can take 2 hours to get to Hobby at times.

People are also conflating or confusing financing (money to build it) with funding (operation budgets). Most of the time it is hard to follow the argument they are trying to make as they using the terms and related numbers interchangeably. And the powers on both sides are using the confusion to whip up their supporters.

So many unknowns on this project make it hard to figure out what will happen.
 
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