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CSISD Elementary Boundary Adjustment 2018

Oogway
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From Staff's suggestion, here is a new thread pertaining to the current (2018) boundary adjustment for River Bend elementary.

Here are the meeting and public hearing dates, including the workshop from last evening and the links thus far to the presentation:

Monday, October 1 at 6:00 pm ---Board Workshop (different scenarios presented by Administration)
Map: https://4.files.edl.io/6886/10/02/18/130853-b6637288-fa9b-40ad-9c6c-500b722d7e4a.pdf

Powerpoint:https://4.files.edl.io/03e5/10/01/18/231104-bab69f0c-b4b5-4ecc-920d-db70b1fc3285.pdf


Wednesday, October 3 at noon --Public Hearing (Public gives feedback)

Thursday, October 4 at 5:30 pm ---Public Hearing (More Public feedback)


There are more workshops scheduled after that first week, but as far as I know, no additional public hearings. All meetings are held in the CSISD Boardroom.
CS78
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Why do I feel concerned that Creek Meadows will somehow end up moved in all this?
MB19
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AG
CS78 said:

Why do I feel concerned that Creek Meadows will somehow end up moved in all this?
Because of the high school debacle. You live in Creek Meadows?
Oogway
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Are you being serious or sarcastic (I have a difficult time discerning with people's posts). Regardless, are you happy with the presentation? Unhappy? Give them feedback either way. If attending in person is difficult, then there is usually an email set up for comments. Let them know your concerns. If it is important to you, then follow the discussion through to its conclusion and vote by the Board. Good luck!
Wicked Good Ag
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Froma quick look it seems reasonable. Not sure all the rezoning for non River Bend is going to make a huge difference but it will alleviate overcrowding at other elementary schools. How soon is the 11 elementary expected. Don't we have a huge possible tract of housing at the SPEEDWAY eventually coming in the next few years ??
Mission Velveta
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It doesn't make a ton of sense to move Meadow Creek (not Creek Meadows) into River Bend after spending all that money extending Greens Prairie road to IGN to accommodate the large number of school age kids going from that neighborhood to Greens Prairie Elementary. That was the big argument when the railroad closed the old route.
Oogway
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Using their projections (yeah, yeah, I know), they have the elementary schools covered until about 2022. By that time, there would probably have been a bond gathered and voted upon for Phase II of CSHS. I don't know if they would attempt to place a potential elementary #11 on the same bond, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As far as Southern Pointe (by the speedway), that will eventually be a source for students, but how quickly I couldn't say.
Wicked Good Ag
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I thought the speedway area was about 1300-1500 single family homes starting in the 200,000+ range. That is not really student housing to me but I may be mistaken
nought
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Wicked Good Ag said:

I thought the speedway area was about 1300-1500 single family homes starting in the 200,000+ range. That is not really student housing to me but I may be mistaken

I think @Oogway meant a source of students for the elementary schools.
Wicked Good Ag
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Ok misread.
Tailgate88
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AG
The master plan I saw of Southern Pointe had an Elementary School included on the map. I believe they were planning to donate the land to the school district so they could build a school there.
Tigermom84
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AG
Interesting thought Bc Wesson said that pebble creek elementary gets filled up rather quickly by the racetrack subdivision. I recall they ignored new developments in consol area during the hs rezoning, so I'm not sure what changed. There didn't seem to be any discussion about a new elementary in the racetrack area though throughout this process.

Overall the map seems to not pick on one particular area. Rather, it rezoned small slivers of a lot of neighborhoods. (Hello castlegate...) Again, I feel these neighborhoods will be blindsided by this, the community input forums are likely to be empty (especially the one at noon tomorrow??). But then again elementary rezoning never seems to be as dramatic as moving kids around in the upper grades, as they seem to value proximity more over the low ses movement. Maybe these slivers of homes will be okay going to a new shiny school that's pretty close.

Hopefully this puts rezoning to rest for the foreseeable future.
Oogway
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That was what I meant, nought, thank you for clarifying.

Tigermom84- I'm not sure I'm understanding what you mean. The Southern Point subdivision will go to Pebble Creek, but if it is as Tailgate88 says, then eventually it would have a school of its own. For the time being, and with the charter school in place, I doubt if PC will be bursting at the seams any time soon. All of those subdivisions (east side), including the estate ones (fewer students to pull) will be zoned Consol, correct? So growth must have been in the mix that the Admin used when developing the scenario. (I'm guessing-I have no idea what the demographer showed them) Margraves will be interesting, though, because it will be zoned for GP, but eventually will attend Consolidated after Pecan Trail & Wellborn.

You are right about the small slivers, I would like to see how many students that is per little shaded area. They have done that over the years- - back and forth with South Knoll and the east siders who went back and forth from PC/SV/SK; I seem to recall Rock Prairie had a couple of splits during different rezones: west of the tracks, Southwood Forest, and also during the first int/middle/hs rezone; Creekview (Edelweiss Gartens?) I think had some students split at one point. Castlegate almost made sense just because it is so very large that it practically fills an entire elementary on its own, much like Pebble Creek probably did at one point. Hard to say. Will be interested to see, as well, how many people attend the hearings and what they have to say.

Edit-clarify
AggieMom_38
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I hope those in the slivers are paying attention so they can offer their comments at a forum or at least be prepared when they are switched. I'm not sure people carved out here and there will be hearing much chatter about the rezoning and therefore perhaps not even aware of being affected. I do like that this plan seems to be minimally disruptive, but it's still hard to get separated from the rest of a neighborhood.
Tigermom84
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AG

Tigermom84- I'm not sure I'm understanding what you mean. The Southern Point subdivision will go to Pebble Creek, but if it is as Tailgate88 says, then eventually it would have a school of its own. For the time being, and with the charter school in place, I doubt if PC will be bursting at the seams any time soon. All of those subdivisions (east side), including the estate ones (fewer students to pull) will be zoned Consol, correct? So growth must have been in the mix that the Admin used when developing the scenario.


(I hope that quote looks right)

All I see is, in the slides, the one with "projected enrollment" it shows PC going over capacity 110% in 3 years. Wesson assumed it was from the racetrack subdivision. But when Fred Bayliss stood up at the hs rezoning public forum and listed off, like, 6 or 8?? new subdivisions in the consol track, including southern pointe, it seemed like none of that was factored into their growth projections because it took years and years for consol to grow. They said we can't count on future growth to fill up consol we have to fix it now with a rezone (or something like that, i would have to go back and rewatch those recordings which I definitely won't do).

Back to the slides, there isn't any mention of new bonding for a new school in the presentation. Maybe they mentioned it in person, I don't know.

Edit-eh I tried the quote thing. I messed it up.
Oogway
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All I know is, (to me anyway) growth is confusing as h-e-double hockey sticks. Do you suppose they are thinking that Southern Point will fill up with young families first? (That then in several years are high school age) I could kind of see that, I guess. Apparently the neighborhoods around Eagle had a lot of young children at first and now some of those children are growing older and progressing through the grade levels while their younger siblings are still in elementary.. It may depend upon how many neighborhoods 'recycle' or refill with young families versus 'age-out' so to speak.

As far as the slivers and families, that's a tough one. The District used to schedule hearings at the Lincoln Center which may have helped get the word out thru some of the after school programs. As far as the CG neighborhood, they seem to have an active HOA so they perhaps they will let folks know there too. Don't know much about Mission Creek though.
Stupe
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S
Quote:

Do you suppose they are thinking
Logically? No.

Manipulatively? Yes.

Once again they are taking kids that have limited transportation and sending them across town instead of the school a few blocks away.

That area off of Krenek Tap could be at South Knoll in 5 minutes but they are going to Pebble Creek and Creek View.
Oogway
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Stupe said:



Once again they are taking kids that have limited transportation and sending them across town instead of the school a few blocks away.

That area off of Krenek Tap could be at South Knoll in 5 minutes but they are going to Pebble Creek and Creek View.

I'm not following: if you want students that live near Krenek Tap to walk to South Knoll then give me some of that health food because a kindergartner that can cross Texas Avenue and walk one and a half miles in five minutes is zooming.

Due to Texas Avenue the students in that area currently attend Pebble Creek and Spring Creek. The bus ride to Pebble Creek is five miles so there is indeed a difference of around three and a half miles. For bus purposes, it is contraflow travel straight from Krenek Tap to Earl Rudder to PC, so longer than five minutes, but compared to walking to South Knoll, I would have to go walk it and I'm not going to do that today. In addition to bus purposes, it places the bus nearer to the Transportation Center when the routes are completed or to travel to the next assigned pick up location.

Per the September attendance rolls, South Knoll is currently over capacity, so having some of the students travel to the under-utilized PC alleviates that. Is South Knoll closer? Yes. Is College Hills closer? Yes, and it is at 109% capacity.

Given that according to those same attendance rolls, Creek View is under capacity, however, I was a little surprised that the students off of Krenek Tap that are currently going to Spring Creek are remaining there since Spring Creek is approaching capacity at 94%.

After spending some time looking at the new boundaries, I was also surprised that the students that live near Luther that currently attend Forest Ridge will remain at Forest Ridge. On the one hand, that gives the students continuity of which many parents have been proponents and the students from that neighborhood have been zoned for FR since around 2006? 07? but with FR over capacity and River Bend being a lot closer, why not take a look at that scenario? Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. Today is the first opportunity people will have to give feedback in person so I am interested in hearing what they have to say.

Edit to add- forgot to mention: the little sliver off of Luther currently attending Creek View? That is very small and I've never been a fan of it unless it is to provide services that the District is having a difficult time providing otherwise. Even with being a proponent of having comparability among the 5-12 schools, that seems too small. What is the reason for that?
Stupe
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S
Quote:

I'm not following: if you want students that live near Krenek Tap to walk to South Knoll then give me some of that health food because a kindergartner that can cross Texas Avenue and walk one and a half miles in five minutes is zooming.
How about the parents that drop their kids off at school and then go to work.
Unless they work in the Tower Point area, you don't think that would make their mornings easier than driving to Pebble Creek?
Wicked Good Ag
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Elementary schools will always be based upon proximity to school. However overcrowding has to be taken care of by these little slivers. I would assume as soon a southern pointe is done that the sliver will be rezoned when pebble creek gets overcrowded until #11 comes into play.
Oogway
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Your original statement concerned 'limited transportation' so that is what I addressed. Did you want to send students to a school (South Knoll) that is currently over capacity when they are already attending a school that is under capacity (PC)?

As far as work, the bus is essentially under the aegis of the District. Having a child transported from neighborhood to the school might be a better option than those parents who currently drop their child off unattended in front of the elementary buildings at 7:15. (I don't know if situations like this are still happening, but if it is a partnership similar to Kids Klub for the mornings would be a help for parents with shift positions).
Stupe
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S
Quote:

Your original statement concerned 'limited transportation' so that is what I addressed.
"Limited transportation" is not "no transportation". You actually addressed families that may not have any transportation and that their kids would have to walk.

You didn't accurately address "limited transportation" with that statement at all.
Expert Analysis
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AG
Wicked Good Ag said:

Elementary schools will always be based upon proximity to school. However overcrowding has to be taken care of by these little slivers. I would assume as soon a southern pointe is done that the sliver will be rezoned when pebble creek gets overcrowded until #11 comes into play.
there are 4 slivers going to 4 different schools. you can do away with slivers by expanding the school zone. all the slivers come from low ses areas to distribute them so that one school doesn't bear the load and get low test scores. the correlation between low ses and low test scores is saddening.

the location of the slivers has absolutely nothing to do with overcrowding.
Aggie1205
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AG
Mission Velveta said:

It doesn't make a ton of sense to move Meadow Creek (not Creek Meadows) into River Bend after spending all that money extending Greens Prairie road to IGN to accommodate the large number of school age kids going from that neighborhood to Greens Prairie Elementary. That was the big argument when the railroad closed the old route.


I agree on Meadow Creek. Is GP elementary over capacity? Seems like a waste to have to take students from Meadow Creek that far.
AggieMom_38
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Expert Analysis said:

Quote:

there are 4 slivers going to 4 different schools. you can do away with slivers by expanding the school zone. all the slivers come from low ses areas to distribute them so that one school doesn't bear the load and get low test scores. the correlation between low ses and low test scores is saddening.

the location of the slivers has absolutely nothing to do with overcrowding.

Yah, it is sad, particularly when they get bussed ("re-distributed") and the kids scores do not change and they still struggle (and they often drop out of sports and extra-curriculars) but the district looks better. How about something novel like working to enhance the low SES kids' achievement and success rather than "re-distributing" them??

edit: missing word
TaterTot_09
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Agreed. Put more resources towards their achievement rather than shuffling them to massage overall test scores. Even less parent involvement tends to be a side affect of their zoning policies due to family's lack of reliable transportation and that part is saddening also. They have a bus to drive them to and from school, which is great, but for some students anything outside of school hours isn't an option anymore. The new elementary map isn't terrible but isn't perfect either. It seems like a better balance of give and take than the HS rezoning. Politics! Anxious to hear if anyone speaks up at the meeting today for the kiddos being rezoned.
threecatcorner
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I am pretty sure the elementary hours are the same at all CSISD locations, but not 100 percent sure about ones where I don't have a student. At my son's school (and, I think at the other elementaries in the district), the teachers open the door at 7:15. So unless you are dropping off even earlier than that, kids are not having to wait outside. I don't know what time they open the doors at other campuses (higher grades than elementary) that have later starting times.
Oogway
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Thank you for that information. If the hours of opening have changed, that is a plus, and earlier than what it used to be (when my children were elementary age they had to be there at 7:55 but I do not know what time it starts now without looking) and as you said, maybe it is/was campus dependent. If the change was in response to situations like I described then good for them for addressing the situation on behalf of the children. Regardless of whether they live close or ride the bus, small children, while capable of doing many things unassisted, should not have to wait alone for an unreasonable amount of time before school starts.
Expert Analysis
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AG
I have heard the north side of castlegate people are not happy with the switch from forest ridge to spring creek.

Spring creek is closer and has a lower SES %.

People just don't want change, they want continuity. I would bet the unhappy people currently have kids in school.
Ratsa
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Oogway said:


Edit to add- forgot to mention: the little sliver off of Luther currently attending Creek View? That is very small and I've never been a fan of it unless it is to provide services that the District is having a difficult time providing otherwise. Even with being a proponent of having comparability among the 5-12 schools, that seems too small. What is the reason for that?
That sliver zoned to Creek View is Southgate Village Apartments. The kids there used to go to Southwood Valley back before Creek View opened. When Creek View opened, Southgate Village as well as the area surrounding Creek View were rezoned from Southwood Valley to Creek View. The apartment complex is small but densely populated with families with young children. I see at least two school buses going to Creek View each day, and that is the only area zoned to Creek View that qualifies for bus service, so it's probably not as small a number of children as it might seem.
Oogway
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Okay, I guess I was confused then. I thought that entire neighborhood went to FR, and since FR was at or close to capacity, was thinking that the entire neighborhood might like to attend the new school which is closer. Thanks for setting me straight.
Mission Velveta
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Oogway said:

Your original statement concerned 'limited transportation' so that is what I addressed. Did you want to send students to a school (South Knoll) that is currently over capacity when they are already attending a school that is under capacity (PC)?

As far as work, the bus is essentially under the aegis of the District. Having a child transported from neighborhood to the school might be a better option than those parents who currently drop their child off unattended in front of the elementary buildings at 7:15. (I don't know if situations like this are still happening, but if it is a partnership similar to Kids Klub for the mornings would be a help for parents with shift positions).
How much of their over capacity is due to the dual language program allowing kids who live far away to attend South Knoll? This is a much more complicated issue than simple geography. Mostly due to CSISD making it that way.
Oogway
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That is a good question and you may wish to ask that of the Administrators/campus principals (I don't know if the school board knows). Since SV is not near capacity, maybe if the DL program were the case they would simply have incoming students go there but I really don't know. I'm definitely not a demographer because I can never figure out how they get numbers (besides attendance). Obviously when you have SFR development you can speculate, but it is a strange field for my brain. Interesting field but complex apparently.

After watching all the videos thus far, I agree with the CG parents that are on the east side of Victoria and north of Castlegate Drive. I have exercised along that street for years and it has become increasingly congested as the second phase of CG has developed and also parents and teens that cut through to go to the high school. There is a crossing guard for Spring Creek at Wallace Phillips Pkwy, but I would be leery about having a child walk that route unsupervised.

Edit to add-if I actually was affected by that zone, I would be tempted to have a friend/spouse take my child/children that morning so I could stand at the corner and get a rough traffic count and/or video. They may have already done that, but if not, it may help to inform especially if others aren't aware of what it is like. Those families are probably too close for bus service but that is a good sized thoroughfare. There are several neighborhoods in town that have become that way (more difficult to reach until you get to the actual crossing guard) as the city has grown.

Edit-additional clarity
AggieMom_38
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Heard a radio update on last nights elementary rezoning meeting. Sounds like the board was responsive to parent feedback/input (at least per radio commentary). There was mention of one group (67 kids?) now being proposed for rezoning from forest ridge to the new elementary to offset the others being moved back to their original schools. I didn't catch where that area is. Thoughts?

It does sound like the board is allowing time for further input given the new map. Is there another forum date set?
Stupe
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S
Seems that way.

How they manipulate the school boundaries doesn't really matter until they see how athletic the kids are and where they live when they are in middle school, anyway.

That's why they will wait 2-3 years and then decide that another "emergency" realignment is necessary.
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