Denial of Service

45,989 Views | 282 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Slocum on a mobile
dachsie
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In reply to TexasAggie_02 • 12:34p, 5/27/15
quote:
(A) I thought this thread was going to be about a DoS attack on a website

(B) I'm tired of "insert outrage here" internet lynch mobs


Since the owner of MB stated that the "health dept doesn't allow dogs," maybe she was ignorant of the ADA laws, and was worried about the health dept regs (which would be superseded by the ADA). I'm sure this will get worked out, but a good 'ol fashioned internet lynching is not the way to go.


Uh, Federal law trumps state laws, especially the Americans with Disabilities Act.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to dachsie • 12:34p, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
quote:
(A) I thought this thread was going to be about a DoS attack on a website

(B) I'm tired of "insert outrage here" internet lynch mobs


Since the owner of MB stated that the "health dept doesn't allow dogs," maybe she was ignorant of the ADA laws, and was worried about the health dept regs (which would be superseded by the ADA). I'm sure this will get worked out, but a good 'ol fashioned internet lynching is not the way to go.


Uh, Federal law trumps state laws, especially the Americans with Disabilities Act.
which is what i said. thanks for playing.
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Carnwellag2
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1:30p, 5/27/15
I've never been to MB - but looks like I will go and give it try and let them know that I am for letting people apologize for their mistakes and make corrections.

I don't see the need to hang anyone from a tree for this. better to air on the side of caution - it sounds like if they did (or would of) inquired with this person, the response was probably similar to what was posted on the web. Not a patron I would have wanted to deal with.

Can you deny service to someone who is rude?
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95_Aggie
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1:52p, 5/27/15
AG
How did humanity survive this long before Facebook outrage and boycotts?
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EMY92
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In reply to Tailgate88 • 2:26p, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
Why not let everyone bring their dogs. Problem solved!
I'm sure that's part of the problem. People try to bring their dog and then when told no, claim it is a service dog.

It makes it much more difficult to separate the "real" from the fake.

Please note: I'm not saying that the lady in the story is a fake. In addition, I would qualify for a service dog if I wanted one.
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cslifer
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In reply to EMY92 • 2:31p, 5/27/15
The fact that so many people "qualify" is a problem. I am sure the MB staff may have run into other folks claiming their dogs are service dogs. I have actually dealt with folks that will pitch a huge fit because they can't bring their "anxiety service dogs" into ICU or post op!!
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rhoswen
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2:38p, 5/27/15
AG
I know someone who has a "service" dog. Basically all he had to do was fill out some paperwork and jump through a hoop or two, and voila. But whether or not a dog is a service dog or not isn't really the issue here. They said in the article the dog was appropriately labeled, so I'm not sure there was any confusion over whether or not the dog was actually a service dog.
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Fonzie Scheme
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2:41p, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
I have actually dealt with folks that will pitch a huge fit because they can't bring their "anxiety service dogs" into ICU or post op!!
What in the wide world of sports is an "anxiety service dog"? That sounds like a big pile of dog crap to me.

I hate that the woman was treated poorly. Sounds like the restaurant is trying. But going to FB with it just shows how everybody these days just wants something at which to be outraged. Our society is circling the drain.
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gopitt
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4:19p, 5/27/15
These days EVERYONE wants to be offended or outraged about something.
I blame Obamacare.
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Alte Schule
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4:44p, 5/27/15
Unless I'm missing something how did this blind person get there? Obviously she can't drive and needed some assistance. Why didn't the person or persons that helped her get there speak up or try to helpfully intervene?

Nevermind I missed the part where there wer "witnesses" that tried to get involved.
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Tailgate88
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In reply to rhoswen • 4:55p, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
I know someone who has a "service" dog. Basically all he had to do was fill out some paperwork and jump through a hoop or two, and voila. But whether or not a dog is a service dog or not isn't really the issue here. They said in the article the dog was appropriately labeled, so I'm not sure there was any confusion over whether or not the dog was actually a service dog.
I have seen people in stores and at public events with "service dogs" that did not look like they needed service dogs. Yes, I know there are many different conditions that people use service dogs for these days, not all of which are readily obvious or identifiable. But I also know I can buy a "service dog" harness and "service dog" ID card (suitable for laminating!) on eBay ...
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studioone
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5:11p, 5/27/15


ok... just want to play devils advocate .., just for a minute... and please dont jump on me... but I'm curious..

Doesnt a PRIVATE company, owned by an an individual, have the fundamental right to refuse service to someone IF they have a good reason? Based on that businesses are PRIVATE property...

Reason i'm asking is i would have had severe issues with allowing a large dog into my old studio, based on the reason that i"m HIGHLY afraid of any type of dog. To the point that i CANNOT be around large dogs. WHY? When I was about 7 or 8, my neighbor trained attack rotweilers, german shepherds, dobermans, etc.. I've been chased up a tree many a time by them.. and i'm highly afraid of big dogs... like some people dont like bees... or snakes or tarantulas or twinkies, or name your phobia..

Just curious...
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taxpreparer
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In reply to studioone • 5:19p, 5/27/15
AG
Studio,

You would think that a business, being private property, could refuse service to anyone for any reason; and you would be wrong. You can not refuse service because of a person's handicap, religion, race, etc. Otherwise, how could the gov't force you to provide handicap spaces on your private property, that serves the public?
***It's your money, not theIRS! (At least for a little while longer.)
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originaltexan
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5:31p, 5/27/15
Some folks will want to continue verbal attacks on the handicapped, which is deplorable, but I am not surprised.

Keep in mind the laws that protect those that are impaired.

http://gov.texas.gov/disabilities/resources/assistance_animals

I would rather have fun and make someone want to visit my business again versus running them off. Imagine the attorney fees. Is it really worth it?

Most people will side with the person that is blind or crippled.
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laavispa
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In reply to rhoswen • 5:45p, 5/27/15
quote:
They said in the article the dog was appropriately labeled, so I'm not sure there was any confusion over whether or not the dog was actually a
service dog.



AND THAT is the crux of the issue here. Guide Dogs for the Blind service dogs have been around for over 73 years and should be a recognizable part of society. The trained service dog is not 'fluffy' the household companion. Having watched the effort that goes into the training of these animals they are a special breed.

MB may have had an ill trained staff, but that is an issue that MB should and must address. I'm not a crap runs down hill guy so the owners are responsible for their employees. The paid PR person can "explain" all they want but as you said "the dog was appropriately labeled" and as others have stated the subject is obviously blind, and I don't make a habit of kicking blind folk.
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techno-ag
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5:58p, 5/27/15
AG
Unbelievable that a business would deny service to a blind woman just because she has a service dog.
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dfphotos
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6:13p, 5/27/15
Calling the cops, lol. We are screwed.
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gettingitdone
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6:29p, 5/27/15
According to the article on the KBTX site, "
According to a post on Martha's Bloomers facebook page, they are in the process of reviewing the Americans with Disability Act policies with their team to ensure there is a clear understanding of the [url=http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/College-Station-Woman-Says-Service-Dog-Denied-Restaurant-Claims-Misunderstanding-305113341.html#]law[/url]."

Can't find a Martha's Bloomers Facebook page anymore. There is one for Martha's Bloomers (florist), but the cafe page is gone.
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studioone
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6:46p, 5/27/15
taxprep.. i wouldn't deny someone cause of their handicap.. i would just be terrified of their dog, and unable to do my job properly...


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PS3D
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6:51p, 5/27/15
This is a manufactured crisis and all boils down a misunderstanding. An apology, and a free meal on the house, and all this can go away.
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Rapier108
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In reply to cslifer • 6:55p, 5/27/15
quote:
The fact that so many people "qualify" is a problem. I am sure the MB staff may have run into other folks claiming their dogs are service dogs. I have actually dealt with folks that will pitch a huge fit because they can't bring their "anxiety service dogs" into ICU or post op!!

For whatever reason, people now get "service animals" for almost anything (where as they were originally only for things such as a physical disability, blindness, etc.), but now they are for claims that the animal keeps them from having a panic attack or some other mental issue. And they don't just have dogs. They have everything from dogs, to cats, to birds, to large animals like horses.

Now, I don't know what happened at the restaurant as I was not there, so as to this particular incident, I have no comment.
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Fonzie Scheme
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In reply to Rapier108 • 7:05p, 5/27/15
AG
So, if I go to _____________ Restaurant and swear on a stack of Bibles that my ball python is a my "personal stress animal", hilarity ensues? Good god, we are doomed.
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BR2024
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In reply to Fonzie Scheme • 7:54p, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
So, if I go to _____________ Restaurant and swear on a stack of Bibles that my ball python is a my "personal stress animal", hilarity ensues? Good god, we are doomed.

It has to be a dog to qualify as a service animal under the ADA and purely emotional supportive animals do not qualify under the ADA either.

The ADA in regards to service animals (dogs) is not as broad as many here are making it out to be.
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Scruffy
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In reply to BR2024 • 8:15p, 5/27/15
AG
Yes.
It is that broad.

And per the ADA one cannot ask why service it provides.
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9:10p, 5/27/15
laavispa
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9:53p, 5/27/15
quote:
Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA
Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal's presence may compromise a sterile environment.
ADA Service Animal


So a python is not a service animal
Fluffy the comfort dog is not a service animal
AND a service dog can be excluded from certain sterile environments.
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Scruffy
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In reply to laavispa • 10:46p, 5/27/15
AG
Good to know.
Thanks.
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aggiepaintrain
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10:59p, 5/27/15
AG
So do we hate MB or not?
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beefly95
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11:04p, 5/27/15
So disappointed in so many opinions here. If this is how we treat the truly disabled, God help us all.

What the story failed to mention is the "not apology" the cafe posted on their FB page, which blamed Laura Ann for her unfortunate decision to notify police and post her opinions on social media. This garnered so many comments and negative reviews from outraged citizens that the cafe closed down their FB page. I wish I'd captured a screen shot before they took it down so people could see how badly they handled it, continually.

This board is becoming as bad as the General board.
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Pyewacket
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In reply to studioone • 11:52p, 5/27/15
AG
As a mama to a mess of rescued rottweilers it saddens me to hear about your fear. I would be more than happy to help if you should want to.

Really folks...Really. I am really trying to understand this reaction. Are y'all just Martha's Bloomers groupies up in here. I will give a pass to the teenage hostess. Teenagers can't even speak in a language other humans can understand. But, if you own a business you better know the law and again denying service to a handicapped person with a service animal is a punishable misdemeanor. What is wrong with her reaction? She called the police to help solve the illegal service denial and she talked about her experience to inform others. Don't even tell me most of you wouldn't do the same thing. I have seen the Aggieland/MYBCS board lose their minds over a lot less.

Before it happens, because it is going that way, let's not even go near veterans with PTSD. Unfortunately, I have experience with this and I will tell you that having service animals with affected young men and women are lifesavers.
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Kashchei
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In reply to beefly95 • 12:01a, 5/28/15
AG
Maybe if people would grow some thicker skin, realize the world doesnt revolve around them, and quit blowing everything out of proportion (for some reason a particular minority group is coming to mind here...), then perhaps others wouldn't be so quick to dismiss those with actual grievances lIke the MB patron.
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MrMeek
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12:12a, 5/28/15
ADA and public accommodation laws
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AggieBarstool
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12:27a, 5/28/15
All this bashing makes me wanna go try lunch there this week.

Count me as +1 to the whole "she overreacted" crowd.
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Bucketrunner
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12:39a, 5/28/15
It's really a neat little tea room. Our young granddaughter loves going there. This, too, shall pass, and hopefully everyone involved becomes a little wiser.
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Fonzie Scheme
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In reply to Bucketrunner • 8:19a, 5/28/15
AG
quote:
It's really a neat little tea room. Our young granddaughter loves going there. This, too, shall pass, and hopefully everyone involved becomes a little wiser.

Sir, or ma'am, that sort of rational thought and well-expressed opinion has no place in this forum. Everyone is here for righteous indignation; think Facebook with more anonymity and -- sometimes -- more crazy.
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