Human beings are typically passionate about activities in which they have natural ability. I don't see how another person or organization can instill passion about anything in a child. But of course, I am not a psychologist.

I completely agree with boysmom. Let the kids decide what they want to do. So many dads lie to themselves by believing that their sons actually want to fully commit to a sport, while what the child is really doing is trying to avoid disappointing dad. People hear what they want to hear.

w8, where are you coming from all this stuff? Are you speaking from experience or from observation?

I'll be the first one to admit I don't know a darn thing about soccer; but I do know how baseball, volleyball, and football recruiting work. Your comments about elite camps at college are spot on.

I seems that your attitudes about select teams is based upon cost. While that may be understandable, it carries great risk. Your kid wants to play at State U; they don't play select ball; they go to the elite camp at State U and they perform the drills and such OK. And two other kids in the same position perform great. And those two kids play select ball; where coach can validate the performances. Guess who is not gonna get looked at again? OK kiddo. And your college strategy just got screwed.

College coaches want players playing select games because it shows commitment from the player. In many cases, the player faces better competition that they see in high school. Coaches want to see that competition, and they want to see game play. I don't know of a college coach that recruits in season because they are too busy with their own team.

[This message has been edited by frito bandito (edited 5/23/2014 9:54a).]

You are absolutely correct frito. That is why I say select sports are for elite athletes.

Select sports do not provide a leg up to the best athletes. The best athletes shine and will be found through normal UIL events. Often, it seems that parents utilize sports, especially select sports, to live vicariously through their children.

Some of your points are valid, diet c, except that if you shine at UIL sports, no one is going to see you shine except family and friends.

The closest thing you have to straight UIL based college recruitment is in football. However, there is still a lot of extras you have to do if you want to play football in college; expecially if you want to get a scholarship. The only way a college coach can see you play in person is if his schedule has a bye; then he is going to try and get to a Thursday night game, a Friday night game, and a Saturday game or two in your area. So you better have a highlight tape and you better be on the game tapes as well. If you are interested in Baylor, you have to go to Baylor's football camp. And you better do the Nike camp, and the TX 100 camp.

College basketball coaches are going to want to know how a kid competes against AAU talent; same scenarios for volleyball, baseball, softball and soccer.

The "elite" kids will get multiple offers from select sports because they get seen by multiple D1 coaches from different locations. When my daughter played at the National Championships; there are hundreds of college coaches there.

Doesn't every other summer tournament call itself a "national championship"?

The NCAA soccer season is opposite the high school season so what's the excuse for why college coaches cannot go see kids play UIL games (especially playoff games)? Laziness? Kickbacks from club directors to sustain the club myth?

[This message has been edited by coach dub (edited 5/23/2014 1:48p).]

w8liftr, sorry my friend, your simply wrong as it relates to soccer. I'm not saying that is the way it SHOULD BE but the way it is.

You can get some looks from college coaches at college soccer camps but very few (ie: none) ever get an offer based solely on a summer camp visit unless they are the next Abby Wambach, Hope Solo or Alex Morgan. A kid gets looks from college coaches attending one of the showcases, kids contact coaches and let them know they are interested in that schools program. Once a kid narrows their search down to a few schools, then they may attend that school's summer camp.

My daughter did attend summer camps but only after she had narrowed her choices to a handful of schools. One camp she was invited to and attended was put on by a group of colleges in the northeast (Amherst, Messiah, Bowdin, etc) so they could collectively look at prospects. She attended at least 4-5 Camps by individual schools but only after these schools had watched her play in Showcases and had reached out to her and suggested she come so they could further evaluate her ability.

The showcases got her the first looks. Through the camps, they determined if she would work out. After some camps, she was told she could come on as and be a redshirt. Others told her she would probably not play much as a freshman and others told her she was what they needed right now and saw her as a starter even as freshman.

As it tuned out, the college she ended up playing for didn't even have a camp. The couch watched her play in several showcases and the state finals for Div 1 club soccer.

I absolutely guarantee you that every single soccer player in the SEC that grew up in the US played club soccer and was recruited via college showcases. It very well may be some grand conspiracy created between club directors and lazy recruiters but it is the reality of college soccer.

In fact, with women's soccer, the vast majority of top level DI recruiting is done via the Elite Club National League (ECNL).

And so I'm clear. I think anyone who is putting their kid into a select sport hoping for the big college scholarship is a fool. Had I took the money I spent on club soccer and stuck it in an investment account, I would have come out way ahead.

My daughter was not a natural athlete but the training she received allowed her to develop far beyond her natural ability and it gave her an experience as a college athlete that, but for club soccer, she would have never had.

She is graduating early from college (She will play her final year of eligibility then graduate) with an outstanding GPA (which is no small feat while being an athlete). She is preparing to go to law school, has been interning with a State Senator in Austin and will be working at the Capital this next legislative session. She told me just last week that there was no way she could achieved the goals she has without the discipline she got from club soccer. That is what made it worthwhile.

USA volleyball has one national championship tournament; although that is watered down by five divisions. USA volleyball are the folks who bring you the USA Olympic volleyball teams. There may be other volleyball sanctioning bodies (AAU), USA volleyball is the premier volleyball association.

I'm hard pressed to think of any local kids lately who have made it to college, on a scholarship, without select teams. I don't want names named, but I can't think of any in baseball, basketball, or volleyball. I have no knowledge of softball or soccer.

If anyone has other evidence; that's fine, but I believe it to be an outlier, and not the norm.

Frito - all the kids who are good enough athletes to play D1 are going to play select sports. Don't strain too hard.

Getting an education on this thread about the current opinions on select teams nowadays. Having been around with quite of few D1 coaches in a couple of sports over the years, some of this strikes me as a bit humorous but also on target.

Partially that is because I just came had a conversation with a friend that is eerily similar except for the subject - in some parts of the world, parents and kids have this same mindset about academics (being seen, select clubs, extra academies, et al).

In regards to coaches attending games, it often is more of function of NCAA rules for recruiting and obligations to the program as to whether the head coach is in the stands. But they will be getting video and there will be assistants there. The relationships with assistants and the "local" coach seems to be the most important for getting the foot in the door.

And the on-campus camps are big for some sports. They begin a relationship and show a kid's interest in a particular program. Of course many stars, never attend the camps of the schools they end up at but get seen all the same. With the turnover in coaches and assistants these days, it isn't unusual for a kid to be seen by a coordinator or assistant at one school's camp but who is at another school a few years later and they follow up.

But want to get real eye-opener on some of the long-term effects of kids and sports - esp year round/select? Start reading the latest research on medical issues like concussions and follow up with the research on anti-social behavior and athletes. Or just read any of Buzz Bissenger's work.

I'm going to stir the pot a bit...

I am not opposed to club/select sports per se. I agree with boys mom:

quote:

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What about letting your kid play select because he/she loves it and enjoys the better competition. That's what is wrong with youth sports in general. Parents are pushing their kids to play. Let your kid make the decision. If they are excited about playing select and enjoy working hard it is a great thing!

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If the push to play with a club is coming from the child and the child understands the higher commitment level and the family has the economic means to do it, then go ahead. But a child does not "need" to play club/select sports in order to enjoy sports and become a lifelong participant. My goal as a parent is to raise a healthy well-adjusted adult. It may not be your goal, but that is for you and your family decide...



Now, from page 1...I realize this was probably NOT your intent, but I would like to urge caution with using your type of logic, Buford:

Buford T. Justice:

quote:

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You are born with a certain amount of athletic ability. No amount of play is going to elevate you to the next-level if you don't have the God given ability.

That said, you can refine what you've got, and make some good improvements, but if you don't have it, you're not going to get it by playing as much as some of these kids.

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Why am I taking you to task about this? (and please, I am not trying to offend, but parents get really touchy and defensive about their children and what if someone was to take your words and put a different spin on them?

"You are born with a certain amount of intelligence. No amount of studying is going to elevate you to the next-level if you don't have the God given ability.

That said, you can refine what you've got, and make some good improvements, but if you don't have it, you're not going to get it by studying as much as some of these kids."

Forget going to the big school kiddo, thanks to grade inflation, you have an overinflated view of your ability to cut it at the University level...better leave that to the elite students.... See what I'm saying about the logic? Not trying to rag at you, because I think each family has to put it within their own decision-making framework, but I couldn't let that one slide...