Do as any other honest customer based business does, DEAL WITH IT. Do you think everyone wants to pay taxes and fees? No. But we all just deal with it. Not steal from the people that are keeping our businesses running.

[This message has been edited by CSAG96 (edited 3/13/2013 1:34p).]

It doesn't work. Just as poets billiards attempted to charge without warning the dishonesty is pretty much pathetic.

What I still don't understand is why the fee needs to be assessed when the consumer wishes to use their debit card as credit? I thought if you don't enter your PIN it was run through as a credit transaction. I did not realize the merchant/machine could process it as a debit without your PIN.

I needed some motivation to stop spending so much on dining out anyway.

[This message has been edited by CSAG96 (edited 3/13/2013 1:34p).]

Seems like all the businesses mentioned so far have been local restaurants. Anyone been to a national chain and been charged the fee?

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What I still don't understand is why the fee needs to be assessed when the consumer wishes to use their debit card as credit?

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Lets go back a few years to the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform to the Durbin Amendment. I believe there was an additional settlement last summer. The merchants & credit card companies agreed that swipe fees can be passed on the consumers.

Cliff Notes: Carry cash or don't visit places that charge fees if you don't like it.

This is sooooo not complicated.

As I've said before, nothing is free.

N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

If you own a credit card, you get some form of "prize." This includes cash, airline miles, gift cards, etc.

I make about $200 a month on my Discover card ( which I direct deposit into savings ) and I have a $1,100 check coming from Sam's in a few weeks that will also go in savings. I get a couple of Benni Hannas and Ruth Crist's gift cards from American Express a couple of times a year. Hmmmm...why are these companies so generous to me?

I get 1% cash back from Discover and 1 "point" for every dollar spent from Am Ex. In turn, these companies charge the merchant any where from 1 1/2% ( VISA, Mastercard) to 3% ( Discover and Am Ex ) per transaction. Folks, the merchant has to try and recover that charge somehow. ( BTW...because Discover and AM EX are twice the transaction fee as Visa is the reason some merchants don't take the aforementioned cards. )

Let's use where you buy gas at a convenience store as an example. His profit margin is razor thin to begin with...around 12% on gas. So when you pay for that fuel with a credit card, it just got smaller. Hence the sign " minimum $5 purchase with a credit card."

Like other posters here, I use cash for gasoline and everyday stuff and use credit cards to purchase goods for my business and pay my suppliers. My wife uses her plastic for nearly everything. It's your own preference, but there is a price to pay for that little magnetic strip! The smaller companies feel every "swipe" while the larger ones can more easily absorb the cost.

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Seems like all the businesses mentioned so far have been local restaurants. Anyone been to a national chain and been charged the fee?

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This! So you would think that people will start to swing away from the local establishments and more towards the big chain stores

I was charged a fee at La Familia @ Barron Rd. It was something like 50 cents. They have always been clear that a service fee is charged for purchases under $10. I have no problem with that.

La Familia charges the fee for purchases over $10 as well.

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80% of our transactions are CC/Debit..
Every $1.89 soda costs me $.19 to process.

We dont charge back the debit card fees to the consumer, which IS legal, but I
understand why some places do.

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The average debit to credit ratio in most local restaurants is 80% debit cards and 20% credit cards. Also, the idea of increasing prices is logical, however, the huge increase that went into effect in Oct of 2011 was so drastic many owners had no idea why their costs have increased so much and so quickly, plus there are normally 2 price increases each year too. They would have had to raise prices on food 3 times in the last 16 months.. So for the post that mentions the cost is already figured in is wrong. The cost built in has been .10cents, now it's .45 cents, so a .35 difference to a place trying to make $1.00 on a transaction is getting killed. Think about it like this, if diesel fuel went up to $12.80 per gallon in one day, there would be much media coverage but there has been no support for the business owners without this solution.

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We have an opinion letter signed off by the Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott that outlines this program as being legal in Texas

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Can you post the letter or do you have a link to it?

Howdy all...

I own a local business that has set up hundreds of business owners locally to accept credit cards and such. I have been in business over 18 years and currently have an A+ BBB rating, and always have.

The Durbin Amendment is what is to blame for most of the new chaos in debit card pricing. However there is absolutely no obligation on the part of the business owner to pass along these fees. Many fees in fact are lower than before, but for others that have a lower ticket, they are up relative to the ticket itself, i.e. a donut vs. an oil change.

It is illegal in Texas to up the cost of an item or transaction to accept a credit card.

It is also against Visa and MasterCard rules as I have been told to do this in Texas with a debit card. That may be about to change, or not as the legislature must decide.
The real culprit (in my opinion) other than Congress are those service providers that sway the merchant into believing this is a good idea. While the provider makes a significant income from this the business owner gets a black eye. All businesses that accept cards have a light bill, rent to pay and so on. Any business owner wants to control costs to earn a profit and there may be a day when all fees are forwarded directly, instead of indirectly as they are now.

In my opinion it makes as much sense though to charge x amount in addition for the light bill, or for paper cost if you get a napkin or plastic bag.

I agree. Your amount that is charged to provide a service should be modified for all your cost and expenses including your fees to merchant companies. If you are not making a profit because of a credit card fee then you should consider rethinking your prices. Be fair to all customers, cash, credit, or debit. I understand requiring a minimum transaction for example don't use a debit card on a purchase of 99 cents. But do not penalize your customers for using a debit card vs cash.

For the person that says no mention of this is made by the business like at Poets, well,this is UNTRUE. EVERY MERCHANT THAT IS UTILIZING THIS PROGRAM HAS SIGNAGE UP on display on front door, drive through, counters, it has never been complained that the customer didn't know about it. That is part of the compliance issue.

I would certainly agree that if no notice was made this would not be fair or even moral. This is not the case.

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EVERY MERCHANT THAT IS UTILIZING THIS PROGRAM HAS SIGNAGE UP on display on front door, drive through, counters

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When I was charged last week at Kamei, I did not notice a sign on the door. Maybe it was there. If it was, it was not obvious. Since the bill was brought to my table, if there was a sign by the cash register, there would be no way for me to have seen it before I gave the server my card.

I'm still not convinced this is legal. I would like to see the opinion letter mentioned earlier in this thread.

In the end, it is up to the business owner to charge the fee or not charge the fee. Arguing about it won't change anything. It would be nice to have a running list of establishments that are charging the fee so that if someone (myself included) did not want to pay the fee, they could avoid visiting.

If you don't like it when restaurants add gratuity on for large parties, you would avoid those places with large parties. In the same way, if you don't want to pay the fee, you should avoid the places that charge the debit card fee when you intend to pay via debit card.

I love garpez and will continue to visit them- but only when I have cash on hand.

I KNOW Charlie B is a good guy, BTW... the businesses choosing to do this are getting charged more so you, the customer, are not getting charged more to go to the ATM. It is cheaper than going to an ATM for you.

I will not be visiting businesses who think this is a good decision to pass along their cost to the customer. It is not good business.

Also, others have said it is up to the processor and not the business to decide whether or not to add this fee. That is false. The merchant is deciding in these instances whether to tack on that cost and charge the customer.

Anyone who accepts debit cards/credit cards is being charged for processing. And most of them don't charge a service fee for that service. So you can't say that those who have recently decided to do so are saving you money still by you not visiting the ATM. I'll just visit another restaurant who doesn't add that fee. It's too easy to find a million other places that don't.

[This message has been edited by gigemwhoop88 (edited 1/26/2013 10:12p).]

I don't cry over spilled milk and I most certainly don't cry over 69 cents

I use m debit card about 3 times daily. If. I was charged .69¢ every time it would be an extra $750' yearly in fees.

[This message has been edited by burnetag (edited 1/26/2013 10:23p).]

As being someone who's completely against this it's not the amount. It's he fact of the matter. But if you want to talk about amount. I use my card 4 times daily. That's around 1000 dollars a year if everyone decided to do this. You have to regulate this type of bad business.

Everyone is paying for the fee one way or another. Again, if you take cash, everyone wins.

If cash is superior, why does Spec's give the consumer the same discount as cash when using the debit card as a debit (PIN entry) but charges more when choosing the credit option (no PIN entry required)?

Debit is cheaper on processing fees than credit, I believe.

Then why are local merchants charging service fees for debit cards but not for credit cards?

[This message has been edited by MiMi (edited 1/26/2013 11:21p).]

I think that's the big question here. I don't think they should be. Sure, don't give a discount like Specs does for cash if you don't want to, but don't charge a service fee. Doesn't seem right.

You edited! Haha. I don't understand that at ALL. CC's are more expensive, so I don't see the logic...

[This message has been edited by gigemwhoop88 (edited 1/26/2013 11:24p).]

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I will not be visiting businesses who think this is a good decision to pass along their cost to the customer. It is not good business.

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This statement is perplexing. Should businesses give away product/services?

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I will not be visiting businesses who think this is a good decision to pass along their cost to the customer. It is not good business.

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If you won't visit businesses that pass along costs to their customers, then you won't be visiting many businesses. Do you not understand how businesses work? Do you think businesses exist to provide things for consumers?

[This message has been edited by Unmade bed (edited 1/27/2013 1:54a).]

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Then why are local merchants charging service fees for debit cards but not for credit cards?

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because charging a fee to the consumer for using a credit card is prohibited by Texas law.

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Can you post the letter or do you have a link to it?

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don't know if this is the letter that he was referring to but you can find an AG opinion on this issue here:

http://www.tasbo.org/resources/business-news-list/762-texas-ag-rules-on-retailers-addition-of-service-fees-to-credit-card-charges

I didn't want to link directly to the AG opinion because its "https" so the link may not have worked.

I don't have a debit card, But if I understand the fees correctly, VISA has a CC network and absolutely positively charges the merchant a fee for each swipe.

For a bank issued debit card where you enter a PIN to complete your transaction, the bank may or may not be charging the merchant for a swipe.

But hey...new CC/Debit rules go into effect today, so all this may be changing!

I will check with our legal department to see if it is advisable to make Attorney General available in this forum. Please all of you, the reason for a service fee for debit cards is this. Debit card usage is around 80% , compared to 20% for credit cards. For a business with a small ticket debit cards can actually cost more now. Texas is one of ten states that specifically doesn't allow for surcharge or service fee on credit cards (yet). This is how and why it is being done for debit cards. It will be very much mainstream within a year or so. This has been a normal practice all over the world for some years now. Visa /Master Card had been trying to delay this for the US for a long time. Also, the cost by Visa Master Card is double from what businesses pay in other countries around the world. Google that if your bored. The American consumer has paid billions over the last ten years in higher prices for goods and services because of the greed from the card associations.