A lot of the state and national parks will 'check in' and 'check out' horses, making sure that you leave with as many as you brought in. It is increasingly common for people to abandon their horses is park areas.

Wellboriginal, I strongly disagree with your statement that these horses are not neglected. You may have seen the horses in the front pasture on Koppe Bridge Rd (which are a little thin and not YET emaciated), but it seems like you have not looked at the pictures on John McDaniel’s Facebook documenting 2s and 3s on the Henneke Scale of Body Condition for livestock indicating starvation.

Please see the following:

www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2682875832344.2150473.1269800926&type=3

habitatforhorses.org/rescues/bodyscoring.html

You stated:

quote:

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These horses are NOT neglected. The owner and his wife are seen out there every day tending the horses. The horses are not without water, ever, and I heard he has been feeding them grain or pellets or something.

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While these horses are being fed, they are not being fed enough. These animals show muscle wasting associated with a severe caloric deficit over a long period of time. You can stay alive eating minimal calories, but your body inevitable cannibalizes its own tissues, beginning with fat, progressing to muscle and finally the break down of organ tissue. Eventually, there is nothing left and the body will die. FNG, You do not have to be a veterinarian to understand or recognize what starvation looks like.

In regards to the drought, anyone paying any attention to the weather channel (even though according to Arhopulos, the weather can not be predicted…) has known about these conditions since February. It has BEEN dry. However, Arhopulos has what look like 6-month-old foals on his property. If you are having trouble finding hay, stop breeding. If you don’t have enough money to ship in good quality hay, stop breeding. If you can’t sell the horses you have, stop breeding. That is basic economics, right? No demand for your “product?” Stop producing it.

Sadly, techno-ag, the Sheriff is not sorting things out. They have seen the pictures, seen the horses and have had many local equine professionals and animal lovers alike contact them with concern for these animals’ well being. NOTHING has happened. There are multiple horse skeletons that many of us thought argued the point of neglect clearly.

Max06, for a breeder like Arhopulos, the $200 per animal at auction is probably not what he’s used to receiving for his horses. It is a tough reality, though, that breeders like him eventually end up sending their “culls” to kill. I agree that the slaughter houses would provide a more humane end for Arhopulos’s horses right now then letting them slowly starve, but what meat is left on them?!? As for humane societies and their very limited resources, if Sheriff Chris Kirk and Sgt. Kris Fraley do their job in enforcing TX Penal Code 42.09 and seize the animals, they will most likely need to euthanize the horses that can not be rehabilitated, which will cost anywhere from $200 to $400 per animal.

Equine slaughter is only necessary to deal with over-breeding and irresponsible equine ownership. Until there is better legislation passed to protect animals and law enforcement finds it worthwhile to enforce even the meager, current regulations, animals will continue to be mistreated, neglected, starved and tortured with impunity.




[This message has been edited by The_Douglas_Cul-de-sac (edited 11/30/2011 10:35a).]

Due to the lack of market, (from my experience) an auction house will not accept horses in poor conidition. I've attended several around the state in the past year and many seemingly healthy and happy horses are going for as little as $100. And those are horses in good condition. The auction isn't making any money off of them, so why on earth would they run horses that are worth even less thru their ring?

People are giving away fat healthy horses day in and day out, you cannot pay someone to take an undernourished horse let alone expect someone to pay you for it.

Ongoing discussion on the Politics board.

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=16&topic_id=1986565&page=1

[This message has been edited by techno-ag (edited 11/30/2011 11:20a).]

Ok Doug (OP) you've reiterated your point. No one is arguing there are horses who need help. Now that we've established that, what can be done about it? Or is that for someone else to decide?

My neighbor has known this fellow since the 1950's and said Arhopulos is no different now than he was back then. "Cold and Crude" were the words to describe the man. You folks had just better close your eyes as you drive by because nothing is going to change. Just be glad he doesn't own as many horses as he use too.

no trolling, but i saw this on another site and it reminded me of this thread


slaughter houses may open back up again soon

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/30/9114827-horse-meat-may-be-back-on-the-menu

The latest on this situation, according to KBTX.

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Investigators_Take_Action_Against_Possible_Animal_Abuse_Case__134800108.html

Sounds like if anybody wants a horse they can pick one up for cheap from him.

Poor guy. Hope he gets it all sorted out.

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Poor guy.

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Just wondering - did I miss something here?

Yeah he's 84 and he's in a world of hurt right now. I sympathize with the man.

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"I know we needed to cut down. I'm too old too old to have all these horses, but I couldn't give them all away. People didn't want them. I didn't want to turn them on the road, so we just kept pouring down money in the rat hold feeding them," said Arhopulos.

He plans to sell and give away at least 65 horses within the next 6 weeks. Arhopulos does not currently face any criminal charges.

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I feel sorry for him, it has got to be extremely overwhelming to have that many horses that you can't afford to feed, yet literally cannot give away.

Like I said, I have room and time for two, if someone else provides hay and feed and shots and whatever else they'll need for fattening up. It'd be nice to have ponies around again.

Rho- you can baby sit my 3 while I 'm in Costa Rica...

[This message has been edited by Max06 (edited 12/1/2011 12:32p).]

hmmm

this could be arranged

A friend has horses down south and said you can get a good horse right now on the market for $5. People are not able to afford them right now. I don't think any criminal neglect was intended with this man. I just think at age 84, and over a hundred horses he got overwhelmed. Especially when folks are dropping off horses there for him to take care of!

Forgot to note though. The old man has offered to give the horses up by SELLING them. That I do not agree with. If he can find good homes for them, he needs to give them away. Feeding a profit off of a situation like this is sad.

Did you read the article? It talked about selling and giving away. Selling doesn't equal profit

We can feel sorry for Arhopulos, but it doesn't help the over 100 horses starving in his pastures. He created more of a problem for himself by continuing to breed, not putting any training on the ones he had and asking way too high a price for sale. Everyone turned their head for far too long and many animals have suffered because of this man's incompetence.

Serenity Horse Haven is taking in three of the 13 surrendered horses. If you'd like to donate, their website is:

http://www.serenityhorsehaven.org/index-6.php

Their pictures can be seen here:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=309773792373590&set=a.309773712373598.79077.176495122368125&type=3&theater

Thanks to all who called Sheriff Kirk and requested he enforce the law in this matter. Thanks to Sheriff Kirk for finally acting and removing 13 horses in critical condition. Most of all, thanks to John McDaniel, a responsible horse owner, breeder and advocate for the humane treatment of animals who didn’t give up on getting these horses help.

“Nature is cruel, but we don’t have to be.” – Temple Grandin, Ph.D. Professor of Animal Science, Colorado State University.


[This message has been edited by The_Douglas_Cul-de-sac (edited 12/3/2011 3:09a).]

Did he really continue to breed for the entire past year? The gestation period for a horse is right at 11 months. If people are seeing young horses they may have been bread over a year ago when the drought wasn't so severe and he may have had more hay and pasture. Nobody could have foretold accurately that this past summer and fall were going to be as brutal as it was. If the mares keep foaling this coming spring I can see that argument, but just because you see young horses out there doesn't necessarily equate to neglect and irresponsibility. Nothing like a good ol B/CS-TexAgs witch hunt to get the blood flowing in the morning. Of all these people that are so concerned for the horses, I wonder how many have actually gone and tried to talk to the man in person and see what he has to say?

Hey Douglas Cul de Sac:

your righteous indignation is cute, but it is apparent you are not interested in discussion, or finding any solutions, so what personal vendetta do you have against this man that keeps you posting in this thread, but not really offering any substance?

Ag97,

My understanding is that most of the younglings were born in Feb-March of 2011, so they would have been bred in Spring 2010, well before the drought was realized.

This is according to a woman I know that passes by there frequently.

To answer your other question, welcome to MyBCS. Lots of complaints, lots of "awareness", but very little action.

rhoswen was the first to challenge people to act instead of gripe, and she has offered space to keep horses if someone else can provide feed and vet care. I don't see anyone else doing that. I do not have room for a horse or I would take some.

The mares in the 6+acre field on the corner are the ones that get bred every year. He usually puts one at a time in the pen with his paint stud that is third pen from the end by the road. I don't know if he bred them this year.

Maybe the authorities know this, hopefully it was reported already, But I happen to see a dead horse that was dumped into the Navasota River at the end of Peach Creek Rd. just 2 weeks ago. At first the horse just appeared there. Then later-not sure how long after, someone dumped gasoline on it and tried burning it. I really hope that this event is not tied to this man with the sick horses. I hope these horses are not dying and then being dumped at random locations to get rid of them. Maybe the sherrif needs to check along the rivers for other dead horses. Just not every day that you take a drive to see the river and stumble upon a dead horse. Just something not right about that. My kids were grossed out.

Seriously? Do you know how far it is from the Arhopolus place that is being discussed to Peach Creek Rd and the Navasota River?

And keep in mind, people are posting pics of bones on the Arhopolus property, and his property is not far from the Brazos, so if he wanted to dump a dead horse in a river, it would seem pretty unlikely that he would:

1. Get his 84 year-old self onto a backhoe or front-end loader
2. Load dead horse onto trailer
3. Drive trailer (with backhoe or front-end loader as well, because he isn't going to move that horse off the trailer without one) through Wellborn, down to 159, over to Peach Creek Rd and to the end of the road at the Navasota River
4. Off-load the backhoe or front-end loader and pull the dead horse off the trailer
5. Dump dead horse into river
6. Load heavy equipment back onto trailer
7. Dump diesel/gas onto horse body and light on fire
8. Drive all they way back to Wellborn
9. Unload heavy equipment and trailer



Yeah. That seems like a LOT of work for an old guy.

Read this thread. There are people dumping live horses in parts of the state, just like they do with cats and dogs.

Somebody that lives out that way probably dumped that one in hopes that a neighbor wouldn't call KBTX to come do a story on them and bring out the Sheriff.

Okay-okay I can see your point if the events had to unfold exactly as you laid them out. But this drive was only 15 minutes from Hwy 6 to this spot in question. And I am no expert on criminal behavior. But I would assume that a criminal would not dump an animal or body near their residenece. They would go a little more out of the way to hide it. And I did not examine the dead horse or horses for gun shot wounds. But it is totally possible that a horse trailer hauled a sick horse down there and then put him out of his misery at that location. I won't assume that the horse was dead on arrival. Again, I am sure the two events hopefully are not related at all.

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...in hopes that a neighbor wouldn't call KBTX to come do a story on them and bring out the Sheriff.

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Not that either would do much good, from what I'm reading....

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Again, I am sure the two events hopefully are not related at all.

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You are sure the events are hopefully not related? Please tell me you are not a trial lawyer.


If you are sure, why did you run to the internet to pose the scenario? Did you see the old guy in the video? He isn't capable of performing the task you described! And he is obviously not going to try since he has had dead horses on his property already. Moving dead horses across the county is not his thing.

I feel the need to jump in here. My parents live a few miles away from this place and I see both sides. First off it is a matter of horses just being horses and letting the numbers get away from a 85 year old man who knows nothing else but breeding and raising race horses. Secondly, the situation has deteriorated in the past few years. Third, lack of resources are not to blame here. Yes the horse market it saturated yes no one is buying but how does the cycle stop for him? It is sad that the county has to get involved for him to make changes to his program. My dad has two of my retired show horses on his property both of which are 20 plus years old. They are healthy and a great weight. Why? because my dad only has two. Two to have teeth done at (by the only vet that will do this age teeth) and regular vet checks, they do not eat hay because of a choking issue
but they get premium grain and are run on the exact same land. I don't know what to do about the situation now because everyone has too many horses. At this point but something needs to be done to alleviate this man and these horses suffering.

I'm going to have to go with Wellborigional here. Horses that are "drawn down" aren't necesssarily "starving" and I doubt seriously that they are without water. Horses dont last long without water.

Having owned horses myself,and used them professionally, I'm of the opinion that the greater majority of horse owners have no business owning them.

A local former vet, who taught at the vet school, once told me that the problem with most horses is the owner. Usually weekenders who treat their horse like a pet instead of a working animal. Some owners pasture a horse, drive out for the weekend and pet it, ride it for half an hour and thats about it.

Also, keep in mind that this is an extremely tough year for finding feed. The "hay" at some feed stores doesn't have enough nutrients in it to keep a 1200lb animal fed. Thats because of an overall shortage this year and the fact that Alfalfa Hay is very hard to find. Hay farmers up north and out west had as bad a drought this year as we did so there is less to go around and a bale, if you can find it, is almost $20.

This time of year its normal for a horse to look "drawn down" anyway. It doesnt mean they are starving. Unless you keep it in a stall and feed it oats daily, this is going to happen. With the number of horses this guy has, I'm sure they are doing all they can.

Also, to all the advocates of slaughtering horses, keep in mind that before it was outlawed last time, horse theft was through the roof. People were losing registered quarter horses, rodeo horses, race horses etc to theft because the slaughter houses would pay by the weith of the horse without question to what kind of horse it was. It's pure profit to the thief.



[This message has been edited by SAWgunner (edited 12/7/2011 11:55a).]

^ a freeze brand will eliminate that. Brand your horse, if it is stolen report it to the police and just like stolen guns/electronics, an APB goes out and the slaughterhouse/sale barn won't accept them.

This wasn't much of a problem before they outlawed taking old horses to slaughter. I hear they are changing this back... thank God. Nothin worse than crappy horses eating up the feed.

[As a general rule we request that older threads with no active posts not be bumped to the top of the forum. We also request that unsubstantiated rumors and personal attacks not be posted on this site. If you have any questions, please consult the user agreement that was presented during your registration. Thank you. -Staff]



[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 9/10/2012 7:22a).]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 9/10/2012 7:23a).]

^

2 objections for trolling. A couple more and staff will remove this thread and this lunatic with an obvious vendetta.

What a psycho.

Obvious psycho troll. Voted against.

They moved in 3/11 but later saw the stud up to his butt in muck? We had no rain to speak of for most of last year and there was enough last year butt there was enough for a horse to get stuck in muck up to his butt in his pen?

Wouldn't ALL of the horses in the adjoining pens also be in the same muck?

Leave your vendetta off this board. You bumped a thread that had been dormant for months, and your first two posts on this sock you have created were at 3am?

Work in some paragraph breaks.

Vote it down. I've seen Staff ban people on this board many times just for bumping an old thread, although I never understood it.

[We have never banned a poster for that single reason. Thank you for using the voting function. -Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 9/10/2012 7:24a).]