interesting, it cost more to dredge than to buy up thousand of acres of land, remove all structures, wells, roads, septic tanks, build a huge dam.

Again, why don't they go buy up the areas in Houston that flood every time somebody washes their call and build dug out lake there.

I'm from Houston and have family in Houston, I just don't like this idea. I work with these land owners and have been in the N.R. bottom, just think it's a waste of good land and functioning flood plain.

Hmmm. Maybe a Htown should issue a challenge! Put up a challenge where the winner gets $xx for developing cost-effective desalination or waste water reclamation. Get universities on board, inspire a generation. That's what got us to the moon...

The entire world would benefit

Dredging is one of those things that seems simple, but is complicated by bureaus and agencies.

Sedimentation will encapsulate things within it, and while undisturbed, is largely anaerobic.

But, take and disturb it, and you 'expose' all the things that had been dormant. Also, the things that had been evenly-distributed as bottom silt are 'suddenly' concentrated as spoil.

So, the bottom silt that was benign becomes 'hazardous' or 'controlled' waste. Which then poses a problem of where to put the spoil. (Any remember where the dredged material from WPCA went? It's under the Romei arts center.)

Which means whoever tries to dredge is stuck with all the costs of creating highly regulated 'waste' and creating water "contaminated" by contact with that 'waste.' A few billions for a new pond gets to be cheap, quick.

Water use is a bit like all other utilities, too; it can look more like sleight-of-hand. So "Department X" builds a water reservoir in some location. They generally do not pipe the water from there to their own jurisdiction. Instead, they sell the water locally for enough profit to pay for whatever local water source they use.

Not that much different from the way electricity is used, really. if still aggravating for the chinese walls and emperor's new clothes involved.

I am not listening to my own comments. I keep saying we all need to concentrate on the unique reservoir site designation.

What I should have said it that region H is only concentrating on the site designation and nothing else. they are not doing any dramatic studies, long winded millican proposals, very little in depth answers. they only care about getting Millican made a Unique reservoir site. they are telling us what needs to be done -- stop the unique site dead in its tracks and region h will go away.

cap-mac - great idea .. why not partner with the Arabs that are already involved with desalination. like the ones that are already A&M partners in other ventures. Qatar and Saudi comes to mind.

What needs to happen to stop designation of unique reservoir status? I have heard that one of the biggest opponents will be TPWD; they will impede the progress of this reservoir through mitigation, thus driving up the cost of said reservoir plan to exceed it's actual projected costs to be built

It is planned for 2040 - which already means the cost estimates are guesses at best. Who knows what something like this will cost in 2040 ? Any attempt to estimate building costs, inflation and land costs at that time is simply a guess at best.

I hope this horrible idea never happens. Their are several smaller reservoirs that are more cost effective.

The Millican debacle is a horrible, horrible idea. If Houston needs more water, let Houston figure out the solution that doesn't involve billions of dollars of waste and irreparable habitat loss.

to ss - yes one unique site has had a victory, fastrill on the neches river. what they had was a 2060 completion date for fastrill. then they had a pending wildlife refuge with money socked away -- 6000 acres in an escrow conservation fund and plans for approx another 20,000 in the works.

millican has a 2040 completion date per region H and no pending monies and acres set aside. Unless there is a good fairy out there ??? Fastrill has had their refuge in the works for some time.

this again is why the unique site designation will be upheld with millican. nothing is in the works. and they do not want any entity to start up some kind of park movement to limit the construction of Millican.

@joz: I attended both meetings in Madisonville & Conroe. I have researched and have learned that it will be the Legislators Spring of 2011 that will vote yes/no to unique reservoir designation based upon Region H plan; one that is full of ambiguous info. & inflated nos. In particular, the population growth of the Harris County area, one that includes transient illegal immigrants. Also in question is the budget allocation for land acquisition. TPWD will bog this thing down through the process of mitigation. Ex: for every 1 acre taken away replace with 3 acres. Is it possible that the mitigation alone could exceed the actual cost of the dam itself? Who knows. And I don't think Region H does either. I have already checked the Fastrill Dam information, thankful that the Supreme Court killed that reckless reservoir. I think that eminent domain is one of the worst forms of government abuse; legally stealing people's land & minerals, their livelihoods. It's unconstitutional. Take the salt out of the water, it works~

Look at Senate Bill 3, in particular the amendments. Every 7 years the legislature reevaluates these designated sites. The unique status is serious, true, but not the end of the world. Furthermore, the Federal Government can bypass state law, and have before, for refuge or wild & scenic river. Before condemnation occurs, water officials will have to prove that alternative methods are truly prohibitive and that sound water conservation programs failed to measure up to population nos. & supply demand. Unique sites previously designated have since been declared unfeasible.

ss -- agree, not the end of the world.

To clarify one point, whether the Unique Reservoir Site designation does expire in 8 years, it does not impact whether it can be constructed or not.

To truly prevent the construction of Millican, it needs to be removed from the state and regional water plan. This can only be accomplished by convincing the regional water planning group (local group) this it not a viable project.
A viable project can either be a management or alternative strategy.

from 4/1
“At this point,” Afinowicz said, “what we’re doing is looking at strategies that may be alternatives in the future and may be further studied and may be aggregated into future projects. There is still a lot of work that could be done on any of these projects. There are going to be a lot of questions about Millican that we may not be able to answer to your satisfaction at this point, simply because of the high-level nature of this plan.”

once Millican is in the regional plan, it will always be in the regional plan, 10, 20, 30 years from now. In the past the millican battle was fought for 1-2 yrs, then went way for 15-20 yrs.

I just hope Afinowicz won't be studying this project doing the entire 50 year planning cycle being developed. He is young and could retire and still be working on Millican project.

From Farm Bureau protest reservoirs -- 2007


“Texas Farm Bureau policy clearly opposes these large reservoir projects,” said State Legislative Director Billy Howe. “Not only will designating these reservoir lands cause a major loss to the farm and ranch lands of Texas, but they will claim large portions of the tax base for rural communities.”
By designating the properties for the reservoir projects now, often years before any actual construction takes place, it would be “a defacto taking of the private property because it will put a cloud on the title of that land that will diminish its value,” Howe said.

quote:

---

who the water goes to would depend completely on who sponsors the project, how it's funded, etc. None of that has been determined yet.

---

I understood the plan was put forth by the Houston water board, to provide water for Houston, based on projected future needs.

If Waterworks is correct, and they have not determined who would get the water, then why did the Houston water board say that's the reason for needing the dam?

Federal law can bypass state law, Wild & Scenic River or wildlife refuge; regardless of state designation of unique reservoir status. Means nothing to Feds. Or to the Oil Cos. They can still drill. Millican has been on the books for decades already, our family was in the first group of opponents that went to Legislature in the 60's to stop this thing. It was stopped, but you are right joz, it hasn't gone away. 80's it resurfaced, too much money & no sponsor. What's different now is the water bill from 2007, protected unique. Opposition composed of powerful lobbying machines, Farm Bureau, Southwest Cattle Raisers Assn, Sierra Club, Wildlife Conservation, just to name a few. Already have Rep Fred Brown on our side. Need Sen Ogden, harder w/o him. These water hustlers are all about the MONEY. Landowners make sacrifices for the greater good when there are absolutely no other alternatives. Also Region H will have to prove that a sound water conservation failed to measure up to population nos. & supply demand before any condemnation occurs. Also, it is possible that legislation for protected unique up for vote next spring will die, either on the floor or in committee. There is no guarantee on either side how this thing is going to go. Texas Legislature is primarily pro-economic development. We are going to fight hard~

Txagclan - The Water Planning Group looks at future projected water demands, and then tries to identify potential water sources to meet those demands. All they're saying is that the water user groups in Region H show deficits in the future, and that Millican (Panther Creek) is a potential water supply strategy. Region G said the same thing about College Station and Bryan. What Region H did in addition, however, is to request the designation of Millican PC as a "Unique Reservoir Site." I hope this answers your question, if not, please let me know.

Well if they show deficits then they need to implement sound water conservation programs immediately. Studies show a majority amount of water goes to landscaping, as Region C had 60%. Furthermore, alternative strategies have to be exhausted completely before condemnation occurs. WATER HUSTLERS!

I agree - this is an awful idea that has to be stopped now. 30 years isn't a longtime in the lifespan of plan like this. And for those who think this would be a boon to the area...Is Lake Somerville a cash cow for Bryan-College Station? It's less than 30 minutes from here and we gets Dawgs on Hawgs and that's about it. Is Conroe, just an hour away, an investment in B/CS? Nope.
Go to the state sites and let Senator Ogden and Representative Brown know that you are against hooking Houston up with a water source, at least if it means flooding out dozens of roads in several BV cities and pushing homeowners out.

one way others have gotten these reservoirs from being designated unique and studied & planned forever is -

Replace the region H members one by one over time. You start with the counties closest to the reservoir, leon, madison, and walker. Get then off the group, then work your way further south. This is replacement plan it working in other areas.

it takes time, but once you can swing some of the vote the other way, the tide will change. Plus the fact we all may get more timely and accurate information from the new members. Right now the planning group members' lips are sealed.

First I am against this reservoir, and I am against the poor prior public involvement Region H has done.

Regional Planning groups have an obligation per Senate Bill 1, to get us the public involved in the process.

Last, I think more effort should be concentrated on Region H and not G.

Region H has about 16 potential sites they briefly studied. Out of those they chose allens creek, little river, bedias, and millican as either a mgt strategy or alternative strategy. Those 4 sites are unique or are recommended to be a unique reservoir site. The 3 sites already unique have gotten more studies done and investigated more. Better maps and some included in the reservoir site protection study.

Now if I went to a Region H public comment meeting and asked them not to make Nelson Creek Reservoir in Huntsville a mgt strategy or unique site, they would say, Huh. Nelson is not a strategy and we are not asking it to be unique. Nelson was only briefly studied as a possible or potential site.

I think this is what we will hear in Waco on the 21st. No, No you should be talking to Region H, because G is not asking for Millican to be built or made unique. Your at the wrong meeting.

On the other hand, I can easily see both Region H and G working hand in hand in the next round of regional planning in 5 years. Maybe G thought that H could slide under the radar, with little opposition, then join up with H later on. just an opinion.

joz said "I can easily see both Region H and G working hand in hand in the next round of regional planning in 5 years. Maybe G thought that H could slide under the radar, with little opposition, then join up with H later on. just an opinion."

joz - I was involved in developing the Region G draft plan, as it relates to College Station. Obviously, I can't say I was involved in every discussion, but I believe your theory is NOT correct - we were surprised to learn that Region H had requested the Unique Reservoir Site designation.

PLEASE NOTE: After discussing last night's Guardians of the Navasota meeting with the Asst. City Manager, we have placed the Millican Reservoir issue on the Workshop agenda for the 22 April City Council meeting. It starts at 3:00 at City Hall. This is in response to the question I got about whether the City of CS will send a letter to Region H opposing the Unique Reservoir Site designation. It's a public meeting, but it is NOT posted for a Public Hearing, I don't know whether any visitors have an opportunity to speak at the Workshop. But at the Regular meeting, which starts at 7:00, there is always a Hear Visitors item, where you can speak for up to 3 minutes.

Waterworks, I am so glad there will be some public meetings with the City Council. I still have many questions, and have been very disappointed at the lack of communication from the water board.

We're told that basically it doesn't matter about the people in this area, because Houston is growing too fast and needs our resources.

As for their projected water demands and showing a deficit in the future, this same information was projected 50 years ago..., and 30 years ago. As I understand it, this is the same plan that was laid out 50 years ago, with the exception that they will have to move the dam site north of 30 (as opposed to near Millican) because of all the development in south College Station.

We've been told the water is for Houston and will be piped.

No, wait, the Houston area will need the water, but they'll sell the water to local communities and take the money from those sales to provide for the Houston water needs.

No, wait, it will be a Corp of Engineers Lake, and managed like Lake Somerville, with no lake side property and limited public access.

No, wait, it will be a constant water level and recreational lake, like Lake Conroe, with lake front property and not much of a water resource.

No, wait, it will be 273 elevation water level. No, that's a typo, it should be 263. No, wait, everything up to 283 will have to be condemned because that's the proposed dam height.

No, wait, it doesn't matter if we do build the dam, it will end up like other lakes that within a few (10-20?) years it will have too much sediment to be of use as a water resource.


No, wait. We don't know how it will be managed, we don't know what kind of lake it will be. We don't know where the dam will be. We don't know who will manage the dam.


All in all, they propose to flood the equivalent of two-thirds the size of College Station, with no clear plan as to how that water will get to Houston (or if it will), and no research into the environmental impact, the economic impact, the impact on wildlife and endangered species, and the list goes on.

I wonder if as many people would be for construction of the dam if it meant their homes, apartments, shopping areas, etc. were all going to be flooded or condemned? Would they be for the dam if they knew how much their taxes would go up (not just property taxes) even if they weren't flooded out?

There are other questions too. What about the cemeteries? Is it true that in order to relocate a cemetery, they simply move a handful of dirt and the marker and leave the remains (skeletons)? What about all the current oil wells? Will they be capped? Will they be allowed to continue drilling/pumping as though it were off shore? How do they propose to keep this water safe from shoddy cap-off jobs or underwater vandalism? If the water were contaminated by oil, how much would it cost to make it potable then? What about the people on the other side of the lake? Will they be cut off from local hospitals? What about bridges? Which roads would have bridges built to reconnect them? How much will taxes go up for those not flooded? How much additional acreage would have to be condemned or taken as a reserve for wildlife displacement?

Until they can give clear answers as to what exactly is proposed, and show research results as to impact, I will remain inclined to oppose the proposal.

I still say that SOMEONE (corporation) is poised to make a mint off this project. It certainly won't be all the people who lose their homes and livelihoods. You can be sure there won't be any bail-out for those families, or the local banks who hold their mortgages.

[This message has been edited by Txagclan (edited 4/16/2010 11:11p).]

I too was at the meeting last night and i spoke with a Region H Board Member who was present. He said "I don't think these people understand it will not happen in their lifetime" I responded with what about their kids and grandkids and he said "Kids don't move to the farm any more" Well sorry to disappoint him, but there were 3rd, 4th, 5th, generation families there! People are moving back to the farms, of course unless you flood them all and no one can grow food who will feed us? This is just one of the many many arguments over this dam and i don't think we as an online group can solve them, but showing up in person seems to be making some noise, hopefully getting some attention and stopping the insanity of it all!
I'd like to leave you with one thought.... Frankly my dear, I don't want your dam!



[This message has been edited by saveourbottom (edited 4/16/2010 11:19p).]

Saveourbottom:

It sounds like they don't think the people living in the bottomland are very educated.

How can it not happen in our lifetime? I certainly plan to be on the planet in 30 years! I saw the board members in Conroe. None of them looked too old. I wonder why they don't think they'll be here in 30 years....

Anyway, all the people I know living in the affected area are Old Ags! Certainly we were all well educated at A&M.

When I was at A&M we lived by the Aggie Code of Honor: Aggies do not lie, steal, or cheat, or tolerate those who do. I think it's time, that as Aggies, we stand together to fight this eminent domain theft of land and livelihoods.

Txagclan,
As a resident of Wellborn, I know what it's like to be treated as if:

a. I'm not educated
b. My way of living has less value than that of folks who hold power over my land
c. I should just be quiet and stop making a fuss.
d. I'll probably be dead before big changes happen

I will stand with you! The coming legislative session in January will have a focus on land owner rights, so start getting ready!

to ww -- when livingston and conroe were built the river authorities got houston to pay the cost and inturn the TRA and SJRA got 30% of the water rights ($$$)

river authorities can not tax us, their only revenue comes from building reservoirs and selling water. The SJRA is in the process of selling their 30% to Conroe/Woodlands. The 30% the TRA owns in livingston is sold already and profit is being made.

Houston owns the other 70% of both of those lakes.

Now comes the BRA, they will sell the 30% of the water they get out of this Millican project mostly to BCS area.

The BRA supports Millican, because it is a revenue source for them, with houston/ft bend paying all the project cost, who would past up a deal like this.

30% of the water rights equals a forever profit for the BRA.

to ww -- G surprised H asked for unique status ??
On the region H group is a BRA rep and they have been talking a millican since sept 09. Get with the BRA rep who sits on the Region H group and tell him we don't any more surprises.

The BRA rep gets all the agendas far in advance of the 72 notices required, as I receive them far in advance as a concerned citizen. He could have called 3 or 4 persons in the river bottom last year and they surely could have activated the guardians before the chapter 4 and 8 vote on millican.

my concern is bedias, but we went round and round with this regional group since 1998. Now the same problem with millican is happening. No one knows anything, but they attend meetings and vote. they share little info with the public or other planning groups. and as you say a surprise.

joz - thanks for the info. In all this, have you heard of ANY entity that is ready (or even getting ready) to put any real money into starting the preliminary work for the Millican reservoir (PC)? I sure haven't.

water works, isn't that exactly the point? They don't have funding then why restrict our land to "unique reservoir site"? How can we the public decide if we want this or not if their elevations and site of dam is so far off that it flood 1/2 of College Station? Why did they not do a map that would show the devastation to our City? or Land? or Landfill? Because they don't care who is affected, they just want to push their own agenda!

ks, i am glad to have you on my side! Have you joined the Guardians or been to any meetings?

New to all this political stuff, but i am learning fast. Kind of scary that you can buy and pay for your land and pay your taxes and they can steal it away from you!

Leave it to the government to find a new way to take away our freedoms. The Region H Water Planning Group out of Houston is trying to designate a huge footprint of land in our area as a future reservoir site. This Unique Reservoir Site designation would affect property rights for anyone anywhere close to the proposed reservoir site. It is called encumbering someone's property without any compensation.

If the Legislature does officially designate Millican Reservoir, it will limit the right of a person to sell is or her property at a fair market value.

This designation says no government entity can do anything to develop or improve properties in that area to limit the construction of a reservoir. This means no new roads or large water wells can be developed by a political entity or subdivision at that site.

For the private landowner, this designation creates uncertainty for the property's future use. It could have a negative effect on the potential to sell the land for any future use except as a reservoir site.

While landowners wait years to find out if this reservoir is a real deal or not, their property values are slowly sinking. Landowners are hesitate to plant long term crops, such as trees, or build new barns and fences when their property could face condemnation. This is not a good situation for the landowners, sitting in limbo while folks in Fort Bend County make up their minds if they can fund and permit this project.

Water users such as Fort Bend should put up funding before a piece of property gets designated unique in our area. Better yet, make them get out their checkbooks and make a good faith offer to purchase all the properties.

eagle 4/7/10

Has this unique site designation ever been challenged in court? It seems unconstitutional, maybe someone on this forum has some answers, I'll be checking into in the days ahead. Just thinking~

joz...ww has to be very careful with his comments due to working for CS.

toocool - yes, I saw the "winky face" but really, that's not the case at all - right now we're keeping eye on the Water Planning process just like the Guardian folks are. The location of the proposed dam and water elevation are critical details that, right now, are completely undecided. But we will have an open discussion on Thursday afternoon with City Council and see what they have to say.