Yeah, I still feel that way too. I don't really like how College Station is handling the situation, but generally agree that allowing Wellborn to incorporate (especially with the current map), is not in College Station citizen's best interests. I understand that part of the reasoning behind the map is because of things the City of CS has done (like Non-development agreements), but to me that is just one more piece of evidence that the train has left the station.

AgStone, I live out that southwest 'arm'. Moved here 20 years ago. Moved to Wellborn. What's hard for many folks to see is that between the 'arms' are pastures and woods. With the laws about incorporation, this is how initial maps generally look. Would it help if I posted a map showing what might be worked out with CS? West of the tracks, many property owners have been here 50 and 70 years and the always considered themselves Wellborn folk. Houses are on 5, 10, 50 acres.

Everyone keeps saying it's not in CS's best interests. What about my best interests? CS will never provide sewer, water, electric, cable, gas to us. Our houses are too far apart. Out west of the tracks you'd probably need another waste treatment plant because of elevations. The area north of Duck Haven and south of Capstone has generally been considered Wellborn. Go ask
Tommy Arhopolos or any of the other long-time residents.

How does our town hurt CS? Are we hurting CS right now? People say they don't like how it looks. Well, don't look! No one will force you to go to Wellborn! There is no emergency services confusion, no road & bridge confusion. We will pay for our roads,

There is room for all. There will be no confusion. Please let us have the land we paid for and let us live our way. We'll let you do the same.

I have restrained myself from saying anything but now I have to. I grew up in the wellborn area, my parents actually built Thousand Oaks Rd. When I was little I remember "going to Wellborn" to pick up packages at the post office in Juneks. Now I live in CS. I have NO idea where anyone gets the idea that the Capstone area is Wellborn. I am sure alot of people agree that Thousand Oaks and Wade Rd are not really in Wellborn either. The map is a joke, cant anyone be even a bit realistic and acknowledge that "Wellborn" is the small area around the Juneks, the post office, community center ect.

ksevern, I will respond to a few of your comments but have no desire to get into a heated debate about this with you.

Now that I know you live out in that Southwest arm on the map I feel more strongly than ever that the proposed city limits of Welborn were gerrymandered to make sure certain properties were included and the map was not drawn to represent the town of Welborn.

I can tell you have strong feelings about this issue but when you talk about being concerned with what is best for you I have to ask myself, considering where you live, will you ever see your house in the city limits of College Station? I don't think so.

nnoynaert,
Thanks for your thoughts. You are one of the few naysayers with an opinion based on personal experience and you are certainly entitled to it.

However, the folks who live on Wade, Straub, Stousland, IandGN, 1000 Oaks, Koppe Bridge, Windy Ryan, etc., feel that they live in Wellborn. The Boyds on Straub Road moved here in the 70s and he has always felt he lived in Wellborn. Ditto all of the Wades who've been here even longer. It sure makes more sense to say they are in Wellborn than that they are in CS doesn't it? We feel an affinity for one another and share interests and outlooks. Cities grow and get bigger. Since we live here, we think we should decide what Wellborn is.

We do respect your opinion and your right to have one, but we disagree. Pax.

AgStone, Thank you for saying that you don't think CS is coming my way! That supports our contention that our desire is all about incorporation, not about avoiding annexation! We took every house along the roads. Being limited in initial area, we did not take the pastures. Used Google Earth to locate houses.

So, also not wanting to get in an overheated debate, since you don't think I'll ever be in CS, therefore, not messing them up, why do you care if I'm in Wellborn? Pax again.


[This message has been edited by ksevern (edited 4/1/2010 8:41p).]

You guys should give consideration to compromising with a smaller incorporated Wellborn and then some sort of non-annexation agreements for these outlying areas.

CS residents don't seem thrilled about the map, and I've talked to quite a few. A smaller direct incorporation area along with agreements not to annex given properties for a number of years seems to be something that would give you a reasonable shot at success.

I know for a fact that you'd have a real chance of getting the votes on the council for this sort of agreement.

Yes, the map is AN issue.

The bottom line for me is I don't see any benefit to CS or its' citizens for Wellborn to incorporate. And the battle cry of "injustice" should be directed at the folks that make the rules (state lawmakers) and not the ones following them.

Just my $0.02.

Thank you for the response. I do have one more question though. What about woodlake? Did a majority of residents there ask to be included? Taking that entire neighborhood of well valued homes makes it look as if you are trying increase you tax base. Again, Woodlake was never part of the wellborn that I remembered.

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compromising with a smaller incorporated Wellborn

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I don't see how with the strenuous objections they put out in their clarification they could accept any size of incorporated Wellborn. Those issues are not directly related to size/shape (except maybe the 'blocking' one)

Going back some years they have shown no inclination to participate in shaping an incorporated Wellborn - in fact, they've pretty much ignored Wellborn as they proceeded with annexation actions and allowing detrimental and innappropriate developments

[This message has been edited by SouthBrazos (edited 4/2/2010 2:40p).]

+1 Nom.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to write this as it's clearly falling on deaf ears.

The map is a serious overreach. Aside from having noncontiguous tracts which isn't going to fly, the map does block a substantial portion of future CS INEVITABLE growth. I live in the ETJ, and am absolutely sympathetic to your cause. This current map and general tactic has turned me off though. Currently, anti-Council sentiment is as high as it's ever been. I'd bet there are a large number of residents that would support anything that conflicted with the current 'vision' of city hall. But I don't see how any CS voter could support this map, and the lengthy (read costly) litigation to follow.

My advice is back up, identify a ~6 square block area around the Junek's or Post Office and if not incorporated get a 'Historic Wellborn' designation, then haggle for a mutually agreeable annexation plan over the coming decades as CS grows to protect the rural aspect of the land. Get Wellborn representatives appointed on the applicable planning advisory committees to have representation, and keep pushing for a voice. Have all the bake sales and BBQs you want, but the proceeds should be directed to lobbying the state leg. for ETJ reform rather than an ugly fight with your neighbors and coworkers. Nothing good will come from this current track, and end of the day we're all out money with the same outcome. The only winners will be the lawyers.

I think you can still work out a mutually agreeable solution, but not with this. I guess the easiest way to say it is that I am very sympathetic, and am in a similar situation, but were I a CS Voter/Council/Staffer, I couldn't go along w/ your current proposal.

[This message has been edited by cstxag90 (edited 4/2/2010 8:10a).]

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battle cry of "injustice" should be directed at the folks that make the rules (state lawmakers) and not the ones following them

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Council can follow state law by allowing an incorporation vote. That there is an option can and should be addressed long term at the state level.

Meanwhile here and now in Brazos County, CS council should not deny the right to vote just because they have the power to do so. While I know there is a list of benefits to a possible Wellborn incorporation, one quite clear 'benefit' to CS is not denying its ETJ residents a voting right

I would think only a clear and present danger to the CS way of life could justify withholding the vote. What I've seen the city put out in terms of potential threats posed is laughable.

I have avoided this one - but really, I just don't see the point of the vote. The cost of the 'vote' and managing everything that goes with it is just not justifiable from the city side when they have the right to say no per state law.

I like your restaurants and your post office, but seriously doubt that this will fly.

Sorry, but as a resident of CS, I just don't see it happening.

Alas, you need to look at the people who vote in CS - the majority opinion here is not always in line with the voting population.

quote:

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What about woodlake? Did a majority of residents there ask to be included?

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The way Woodlake was included was, several Woodlake residents showed up to the early meetings of Citizens for Wellborn (CFW) and expressed interest in being included. I was not involved in creating the map and have only been to one CFW meeting, but as I understand it, CFW basically included everyone who asked to be included. In their defense, why wouldn't they include Woodlake since they had numerous people from Woodlake say they wanted to be included, and nobody saying they didn't (at that time)?

That being said, since the map has come out publicly, some residents of Woodlake have raised the question of how and why Woodlake was included. To date, there has not been any vote of Woodlake residents. In a way, CFW is in a difficult position if they have some Woodlake residents expressing a desire to be included and others saying they would rather not. To my knowledge, while there have been questions asked about how Woodlake was included, I don't think anyone has come out directly and told CFW that they do NOT want to be included. (But I could be wrong.)

quote:

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The cost of the 'vote' and managing everything that goes with it

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Any Wellborn incorporation vote would be a ballot issue in a regular election. Negligible additional cost.

Now should the initiative petition prevail with council presumably still being stubborn than the ensuing special election on whether Wellborn should be able to have an incorporation vote would carry a cost. Should Council follow the city attorney's thinking and ignore the petition from their residents then the possible legal wrangling would carry a cost.

Wow, this has more entertainment value than the NCAA tournament (especially since the Ags dropped out).

Seems like a lot of posters know what Wellborn is and isn't. How many live in cookie-cutter subdivisions in a metropolitan area of similar subdivisions and don't have the slightest idea what a community is?

I have to go through Wellborn to get to College Station. I may be closer to downtown Millican than I am to downtown College Station. So I should become part of College Station and not Wellborn because I (pick 1 or more):
(a) Am too dumb to know where I belong
(b) Represent a threat to College Station
(c) Own property that CS needs taxes from

[This message has been edited by bball73 (edited 4/2/2010 2:09p).]

[This message has been edited by bball73 (edited 4/2/2010 3:09p).]

bball73,
Sounds like you are the only one who knows where you belong!

I've been delusional for 18 years, thinking I lived in Wellborn. My neighbors are all crazy that way too, and I actually know their names!
Weird, huh?

quote:

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one quite clear 'benefit' to CS is not denying its ETJ residents a voting right

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How? I'm not sure I follow.

Wellborn is in the line of fire of CS growth. Having a wagon wheel-looking Wellborn, Inc. in the middle of CS in 20 years is not in the master plan.

That's my point. Allowing Wellborn to incorporate has too many negatives compared to the positive (being nice to your neighbor). I know you guys feel scorned, and I don't argue I'd feel the same, at least temporarily. But the Council is to look after our best interests, and right now that's what they're doing. Unfortunately for your cause time is probably too short.

So let me make sure I understand this. Woodlake had been included without speaking to more than a few of the many residents? And they have not been allowed to vote? It may just be me, but this sounds like what you are fighting College Station about!!

LOL...I bet that Wellborn just wants what's best for Woodlake.

nnoynaert
It is just you.

Woodlake Estates (used to be Woodlake and Equestrian Estates), Wellborn Oaks and Turnberry were all pretty much Wellborn because they followed Greens Prairie Road one after another. This was decades before Greens Prairie Trail existed. The only way to get there was 'through' Wellborn, or down a long two-lane road.

The homeowners association there knew about this in Woodlake and no one said Wait! No Way! I want to be in CS!

Now, Wellborn is not like CS on this issue. First, CS can annex you without any vote at all. In the case of Wellborn, there will be a vote of the registered voters in Wellborn. That's what we want, a chance to vote.

PS: CS annexed Wellborn Oaks, right of the middle of Wellborn, just so a developer buddy could create Creek Meadows. Ask Wellborn Oaks people what they have gotten out of the deal besides a tax bill. Nada.

[This message has been edited by aggieknit (edited 4/4/2010 10:08a).]

But you're going to take in all of Woodlake whether they want to be included or not, right?

Aggieknit-
Not following what Greens Prairie trail has to do with getting to Woodlake from CS. You do realize that the section added was only from the entrance Woodlake going WEST towards 2154, right? Greens Prairie Rd has always gone to the highway as well. When I was in high school we moved from Thousand Oaks Rd to Woodlake and would go to town via the highway, it was faster. And please explain how you can include an area because you had to drive through wellborn to get there. If we follow that logic you better amend you map to include Millican as well.

(Disclosure: I don't speak for CFW but I am a member. I am also a resident of Woodlake.)

quote:

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But you're going to take in all of Woodlake whether they want to be included or not, right?

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As the map is currently drawn, all of Woodlake is included. The question is how do you determine "whether they want to be included". CFW promoted their cause and gave notice of numerous meetings leading up to their initial request to COCS to let them vote. Their was public announcements and signage all over this area. Several Woodlake residents showed up and expressed they wanted to be included, so CFW drew Woodlake into the map. (I was not at any of these meetings myself, by the way.) I have heard (although again, I was not present) that the CFW also was at the Woodlake annual HOA meeting earlier this year, and received a positive reception. (KSevern, correct me if I'm wrong.)

nnoynaert, you're not the only resident of Woodlake that is realizing a little belatedly that we could become residents of Wellborn. There have been some discussions among some of the other residents out here as well, but after giving it some thought, I think the general concensus we have come to is, why not? Based on other areas that have been annexed by COCS, we don't see that we will receive benefits equivalent to the increased taxation. If we are NOT included in Wellborn, we most certainly ARE going to be annexed by CS in the next few years. Your thoughts?

I do not believe that "why not?" is a reason to be included. And you will still have increased taxation for absolutely no improvement in public services. You will still have VFD, sheriff's office and county road maint. Not that those services are bad at all, but why pay up to 25 cents per hundred in taxes to keep the same services? You will also still have to deal with BAGS trash collection. I say if you are going to be taxed why not pay the 43 cents per hundred and recieve CS fire and police services as well as city road maint and garbage. Your homeowner's insurance will go down significantly due to the vast difference in ISO rating. City garbage is reliable and will also pick up recycling as well as large/bulk garbage at no additional charge. And then you get to my favorite reason of all...lots of folks on this board are complaining that they have no say in what College Station does and want to vote. If you are in the city you get to vote. When you take all of that into consideration I cannot see why you would want to be part of the city of Wellborn.

nnoynaert

Your assumption that Wellborn will tax at 25 cents is not supported by anything said by anyone. I think ten cents has been mentioned for pahying for the roads. Also, you act like Wellborn would never have a police department, but that would be decided by the residents of Wellborn and the Wellborn city council.
Your analogy of having to go through Wellborn to get to Millican is silly too. Since I have no idea how old you are, but I think Thousands Oaks was put in during the late 1970s. Thirty years ago.

That said, you can certainly help yourselves to being taken off the Wellborn map- here's how-- call an emergency HOA meeting in Woodlakd, or go door to door, and get everyone in Woodlake to vote yea or nay on a written document with name address signature and phone. Or just get the nays. Bring it to the April 10 meeting at the Wellborn Community Center. If you do nothing, the committee will likely assume you don't diagree. Come and learn more about what's up and you may change your mind about being part of CS or being part of Wellborn. You will get one or the other, so speak up and say what you want. Come to the city council meeting on Thursday and speak during visitor time at the beginning. You will need to be at CS city hall about 6:30 in order to sign up to spaek.

aggieknit-
I got the 25 cent rate from a post that you put on this board. It is on page 7 of this board at 830 pm on 2/19/10.
Previously the shape of yall's map has been explained by the fact that "we asked everyone who wanted to be in it". Yet in the area that will likely provide you the most tax revenue per sq. mile you chose not to contact each property owner. Can anyone explain why? Now you want these people to take steps that anyone would agree are incredibly time consuming just to be heard, and that honestly should have been done by the folks coming up with the map in the first place.
I pose this question to you. Since the map was drawn to include individual property owners that wanted in, can it be amended to NOT include individuals who want out? If possible please explain why or why not.
Thanks, nnoynaert

If you live in Woodlake and don't want to be included, is there a way to remove your property? Or because you didn't show up to the meeting, was it automatically assumed that since some wanted to be included all wanted to be included?

Exactly what I was going to ask.

This answer should be interesting.

The maximum property tax that Wellborn could collect would be 25 cents. The amount discussed to possibly cover road and ditches has been 10 cents. The maximum tax that CS could collect is $1.50, which is six times the amount of Wellborn maximum.
The current map is tied to the application given to the city of CS. I don’t think it can be amended as it is a legal application. Another application with a different map could be submitted to CS if sufficient signatures were obtained from residents within the proposed area. As far as I know, no one is pursuing that today, but you might ask Jane Cohen of the committee.

I was told that when the map was made, it was decided to keep neighborhoods together if possible and not create a checkerboard. Saddle Creek and Quarter Horse Ranch were not totally included because they ran out of area (maximum four miles), so their ‘ends’ are still just in the county. They included areas where they thought the vote would favor yes on Wellborn incorporation, based on signatures obtained and on contacts by folks after the signature deadline. To choose neighborhoods otherwise would have been foolish- why include an area that will vote no? Notice that Sweetwater and Duck Haven were not included--- too few signatures, thus they might vote no. Also, I don’t think the property value was the big consideration because included are also some less than valuable properties. Wixon Valley and Kurten get by on much lower total property values.

Neighborhoods with HOAs were contacted via that route. Also, every meeting had the huge map out with Woodlake included in Wellborn and folks from Woodlake were there at those events and they signed. Residents of Woodlake and every other neighborhood can cast their vote on the matter if the CS council allows us to vote. If CS does not grant the right to vote, it is a moot point. I actually think this is way more fair than annexation, where you don’t even get to vote at all. So, if this doesn’t go through and you get annexed, please don’t whine about it not being fair that CS annexed you without consent.

As individuals, we can all spend as much or as little time as we wish on things of personal interest. We keep ourselves up to date on things we deem most important to ourselves. It’s a basic economic question on personal time and energy.

Well that seems to be the most honest explanation of why the map looks like it does that I have seen thus far.

In addition to the potential variation in property tax rate there is a possibility of sales tax revenue. I believe its been tossd around that at least one small community around here has all service costs covered without a property tax.

SouthBrazos, you are correct. Wixon Valley pays for its road and bridge work with sales tax receipts and Wellborn could definitely do that. However, citizens of Wellborn might want to keep the sales tax lower to keep folks coming to our stores and our online businesses. That would be decided by the citizens for Wellborn, not by the committee pursuing incorporation. This is one reason a smaller town is more responsive to its residents.

My mom lived in Onalaska, Texas, for many years and they pay the entire budget of police department, library, senior center, and salaries for employees through sales tax. With a police force, they generate revenue to pay for most of the police and court expenses.

I've done a little more research this morning, so people can have more information to make their decision. Here are some comparative values, based on a taxed valuation of $150,000, which seems a reasonable number for the houses in Woodlake...

Current "City" tax: $0, as we're not in one
Wellborn tax if $.10/hundred: $150
Wellborn tax if $.25/hundred: $375
COCS tax if 2009 value $43.94/hundred: $659.10

I also called my insurance, which is State Farm, to inquire about a potential change in homeowners insurance. She said currently we are paying as if we are College Station, since we have a College Station address. Thus, our rates are based on being serviced by the CS Fire Department, even though we are currently serviced by the South Brazos County Volunteer FD. (So, we're lucking out currently...) If our street address were to change to Wellborn, TX, our homeowners insurance would likely go up by some amount, if the SBCVFD has a lower rating than CSFD, which it likely does. (Not a knock on SBVFD! Any rural volunteer fire department will have a lower rate than a full-time fire department.) She could not quantify what the change in rate would be, but seemed to think it might be a couple hundred dollars. If anyone else can get a more precise number out of their insurance agent, please post here. But to clarify...

quote:

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Your homeowner's insurance will go down significantly due to the vast difference in ISO rating.

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...that is not the case, at least for me (and presumably other State Farm customers), as we are already being rated as if we were in the COCS. (Shhhh...don't tell anyone!)

Calculate the numbers based on your home value (BrazosCAD.org), call your insurance agent and ask a few questions, and decide for yourself if the increased tax and changes in your insurance would be worth the increase in services from the COCS.

-- You would get CS Police service, vs the existing County Sheriff service.

-- You would get CS Fire rather than SBCVFD - but they have two stations closer to Woodlake than CS does. (But, they are not staffed full-time either.)

-- You would get CS trash service rather than BAGS.

Can anyone else think of additional services Woodlake residents would receive if annexed by COCS?


[This message has been edited by Tailgate88 (edited 4/5/2010 5:49p).]

I thought this was an interesting history of CS annexation.

Speaking of volunteer fire departments if you live out in this part of the world and didn't get Emily Staples, South Brazos VFD letter you should arrange to. (They evidently lost their data base in a lightning strike and are reconstructing it)

Anyway, she corrects some media caused incorrect info on fees and services. More to the point of thread, the letter which covers a lot more ground, reinforces my belief that services (and government) provided closest to home may be best. The key rate may be a bit more advantageous with a CS address but considering the total economic and noneconomic differences I'll take an incorporated Wellborn and South Brazos VFD any day.

[This message has been edited by SouthBrazos (edited 4/5/2010 6:25p).]