I'm guessing that some of you have run into this before........we start filling protein feeders in January/February, but we always have coons, cows and hogs get into a few of the pens. Our fencing runs about 4 feet high and it does a good job of keeping most animals out, but it always seems like a cow or two will crush the fence and we lose all of the protein. In addition, the % of high quality bucks visiting the pens is low.
I'd love to plant some additional high protein plots to try to feed a larger range of deer, but the arid conditions and high heat make that difficult. We can't irrigate and when we do get enough rain, the rest of the pasture provides enough browse that it reduces the need for food plots.
Do any of you have any experience with producing additional browse/food plots with unconventional methods in arid conditions ?

You have stumbled upon one of my areas of expertise! I've been consulting on this very thing in South and South Central Texas for 15 years now. Depending on exactly where your place is located, my general answer is to not bother with warm season plots. As you eluded to, if your deer and livestock numbers are in good balance, nature will provide most of what you need in South Texas in the warm season. In a wet year, things are great. In a dry year, plots won't work either.

If you are determined to give it a go, concentrate on the cool season/early warm season plots. Many biologists are of the opinion that the post rut/early antler time is extremely important. You might give a good cool season mix a try. A mix is the key with a variety of species such as oats, beardless wheat, ryegrass, sweet clover, winter peas, vetch, and turnips. I stress a mix since those species have a wide variety of growth/dormancy periods during that time frame. In addition, they will give you a longer lasting plot.

By all means if you are going to do it, do it right. Prepare a good seedbed, soil test and fertilize. Go with larger plots, rather than lots of small plots.

Trout--

Over the years we have found that Sorghum Almum does better than most of the "newer" forages. It is a little more drought tolerant in that it will germinate, might die back if it drys up, then if you get a rain later, will come back. Dont know how much the deer get out of it, but if it matures, it makes seed and will actually come back from the roots the second year. Deer will browse on it and quail like the seed. That is all we ever plant for warm season grazing/plots.

What is your experience with this plant, B-1 ?

Hope your season went well, Trout. Yall get any good ones ?

Sorghum Almum is a weak perennial in the sorghum/johnsongrass family. It will tend to "poop out" after a couple of years. As a warm weason grass, the protein is not likely to be the greatest, but when in the "boot" stage, the undeveloped seedheads are quite nutricious. It will usually respond quite favorable to fertilizer and will like disturbance before the third growing season. At about $1 per pound and a 12# seeding rate, it is cheap.

Brush Country - take a look at a plant called "Bee-Wild" bundleflower. It is a perennial forb/shrub that does quite well in South Texas. Pogue and Turner both carry it. It will make a 2-4 foot plant with great quail seed production as well as great browse for deer. I'll use sorghum almum in perennial mixes (at 1#/ac) as a "filler" species to keep critters off of the small, expensive stuff early on.

A little off topic, but have you tried different types of feeders? Are you using a basic gravity feeders or something like a Lamco that has rails and a covered spinner to keep the coons from manipulating feed/corn? We've put up panels to try and keep the cattle out (with some success), but a cow's going to go where a cow wants to go....in the end all you can do is make it as difficult as you can and hope they stay away.

We have also started putting out Havahart traps (around $50 each) and every weekend we have 2-3 that get to meet their maker. We took a gamecam pic earlier in the season and counted 16 at one time. Since we've been trapping them, we usually see just a few at any one time.

We use cattle panel around our protein pens and actually never have cows get in. We have been having a lot of coons but it seems fairly rare that one gets a grip on the feeder long enough to knock out much protein.

B-183, I have tried to plant bundle flower, but the deer graze it off too quickly. I also have tried bush and maximilan sunflowers with the same result. Any suggestions.

BoyNamedSue, I have All-Seasons 1000# free choice feeders. Big coons can easily pull themselves up and into the trough. I have resorted to poison over traps.

Which bundleflower? Not that it makes that much difference. One thing about forbs is protection. Pure plantings are almost doomed from the start. In grass mixtures, they stand a chance simply from the "hidden" factor - thus the sorghum alum in the mixes. Another strategy is to throw some cheaper "hamburger helper" in the mix, such as yellow blossom sweetclover, annual sunflower, pigweed (yes, pigweed), or even an annual grass like pearl millet.

Thank you B-183. It was "Illinois", recommended by my local NRCS agent. And yes, it was the predominate seed. What about Bush or Maximillian sunflowers?

Maximillian is for hill country, bush will work either hill country or south. If you planted Illinois Bundleflower down south,you wasted your money. It won't stand the heat.

IMO - there is no need to protein feed and also plant food plots year round. Choose one or the other. Protein supplementation is generally easier to do, easy to monitor, and provides great results once you determine what your deer like. usuaully, you see a 20% increase in deer body weight, with better antlers to follow for sure. I agree that it is more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Set the troughs or elevated feeders them up in "protected" areas near bedding or transition areas where they will always feel safe. You will be shocked at the results. P.S. - elevated self-feedeing sopouts are better becasue they cut down on wasted feed and varmits screwing things up. Just low fence them in. Good luck.

I'm not so sure protein feeding is more expensive. At the current cost of fuel/seed/fertilizer, you are looking at $80-$100 per acre for annual food plots if done right. With a good sprayer and a no-till drill, I can cut the cost by about 1/3.

I am not in south Texas, I'm in Bosque County.

1989, I agree with you to a degree. I do use free choice feeders for protein feed, however I am always looking for protein supplements in "natural" vegetation as well. Whatever I can do to enhance natural browse, I want to try. Even something as simple as helping Green Briar grow.

B-1 83
Great comments. What protien feeder fencing do you suggest for a Live Oak county ranch with hogs, steers, and a couple longhorns that jump 36" hog panel with out problem. In addition, the longhorns have started pushing over the hog panel. I have 7 1000# All Season gravity feeders. Before everybody chimes in, the longhorns are my Aggie wife's

They make 42" and I thought 48 inch panels.

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By all means if you are going to do it, do it right. Prepare a good seedbed, soil test and fertilize.

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B1 - 83 - Can you elaborate on this ? In other words, how do you prepare a good seedbed, test the soil and what type of fertilizer ?

Does this stuff have to be irrigated or do you just pray for rain ?

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A little off topic, but have you tried different types of feeders? Are you using a basic gravity feeders or something like a Lamco that has rails and a covered spinner to keep the coons from manipulating feed/corn? We've put up panels to try and keep the cattle out (with some success), but a cow's going to go where a cow wants to go....in the end all you can do is make it as difficult as you can and hope they stay away.

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We use basic gravity feeders ( Bode ? feeders) and we've installed hog panels around the perimeter. In addition, we've installed a portion of a hog panel over the feed tray that will eliminate hogs and cattle from grazing in case they get in. We're also hoping that it reduces the amount of coon activity because they won't be able to sit inside the tray and give birth to small t-sips or eat the protein.

I guess my biggest concern with these feeders is that we're feeding such a small % of the population. The chances of delivering the protein to a potential "shooter" seems tough to do. We've installed some game cameras to try to guage the impact.

We grease the legs of our feeders and this has prevented coons from climbing up and getting into stuff we don't want them into. Its funny to see where they made it up a little way, then you see the marks where they slid back down.

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Hope your season went well, Trout. Yall get any good ones ?

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BCA - We still have about 6 weeks left, but it's been really weak as far as trophy hunting is concerned. One of the guys on our lease killed a 204 and it was great to listen to him tell the story. He spends a lot of time in the field and it was nice to see him rewarded for his efforts. We're on different pastures this year and I've really enjoyed getting to know the new spots and hunting with a great group of hunters. It's been 6 years since I've killed a good one, but it's been one of my more enjoyable seasons.
I hope you're having a great year. The 2007 season is starting out great with the November/December rains.

Trout--

We took a 165 1/4 and a 174 7/8, but other than those, just worked on the culls and does.

I had alll of my protein delivered last week and this week and cant get out to get it in the feeders--AND THAT IS A GOOD THING !!!! Still need a tank rain, but hopefully that is coming soon.

Speckledtrout do you happen to have a picture of the 200 your group killed... I heard about it but never saw a picture...

wfriedeck - I'll see what I can do about the picture. You been back to the Junco this year ?

Brush Country Ag - Congratulations on some very fine bucks ! It would suit me just fine to keep the protein in the shed because the roads were too wet.

B-1 83 - If you don't mind, I have another question ( or for anyone else ). A lot of our roads are quite wide......would it be worth it to try to disc the ground on either side of the tire tracks in an effort to promote weed growth ? Right or wrong, I was thinking that newly sprouted weeds would make an attractive target for deer.

Speck

Is that 2 200" deer off the JUNCO this year? Wow...that is amazing for any ranch. Congrats on those deer and it looks like we are starting 07 off in fine fashion with this wet weather.

DVM

Missed the questions yesterday - I was out in the field doing a wetland determination.

Good seed preparation is just what it sounds like. whether a food plot, or a corn crop, you must have the ground prepared. In "virgin" ground, you might have to chisel and/or disk multiple times to eliminate the grassy/weedy/brush competition. For a new plot, this may well have to start 6 months (or more) before planting.

Disking beside roads is often a very good idea to promote forb growth. More than one ranch in South Texas uses these areas as food plots. What better place than on the roads leading to blinds and in the senderros? I sometimes hesitate to call those food plots, but I tend to refer to them as "kill zones" in those situations.

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Is that 2 200" deer off the JUNCO this year?

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Yes, that's 2 in the 200-class. Both were killed prior to the rut, but only 1 was killed on our pastures. I heard that we had about another 1/2 rain this week. I don't know if it reached the freezing point this week, but the spring could be a darn good one.

B-1 83 - I see that you are a conservation agronomist. Do you work for the state ?

Even better - I'm a Fed.

B1--As a Federal Agronomist, what exactly do you do as far as ranches are concerned ? Wildlife habitat recommendations ? Erosion control ?

I'm a jack of all trades, but my specialties are reduced tillage systems, soil fertility/nutrient management, and wildlife food plots. I have had 15 years of experience in South Texas with brush management and revegetation for wildlife. I work 50+ counties in South Texas and the Coastal Bend, and I'm available by request through your local NRCS office. Best of all, we're FREE!

[This message has been edited by B-1 83 (edited 1/20/2007 3:27p).]

Would like to visit with you sometime this spring. You probably drive right by my place if you still travel 624 from Uvalde to Corpus.

Which county?

LaSalle

The District Conservationist there is Kathryn Menke, and she's a real sweetheart. Just tell her you need agronomic assistance.

Thanks