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NICS Denial Scenario

1,924 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by skelso
jonj101
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Lets say there is a situation in which an individual that attempted to purchase a firearm at a store was denied through NICS based on an incorrect background history. Basically, this person has no criminal record, but the reason for denial in the identity history summary mentions a conviction that could result in a year or more of imprisonment.

If the individual starts the appeal process, is there any idea on the amount of time that it takes to appeal and get it straightened out?

What if instead of waiting on the appeal process, the individual decides to just go get their LTC so they don't have to be bothered with the background on future purchases - are they allowed to do that or do they have to wait until the appeal process is complete?

Thanks for any insight.

meggy09
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Has this happened often? Could also look at getting a UPIN.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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It might be a continual problem, without the UPIN. I'm guessing you have a similar name/birth place to a villain.

(It happens.)
skelso
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Did you put your SSN on the 4473?

If yes, and there was a denial as described, appeal and request a UPIN.

If no, provide it and have FFL run updated check. This is the only time I recommend it be added to the 4473. As an FFL, I don't want to be in posession of people's PII...
jonj101
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SSN was not originally put on the form.

After the denial when the FFL was asked if it could be resubmitted with the SSN, the FFL said that any attempt to purchase a firearm from any store within 30 days would result in the the employees calling the cops to make an arrest.

This is also the first time this happened - firearms have been purchased in the past but it has been a number of years since the last one.
skelso
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This is an FFL, or employee of an FFL that doesn't want to be bothered so they are fear mogering you...

Directly from my ATF contact:

The FFL can run the background check again if he has additional information for the buyer.
The buyer won't be arrested, but multiple denials would place him on the list of deniers who keep trying to acquire firearms. He may get a call/visit from us if he keeps trying and keeps getting denied.

That said, anytime I have had a NICS check come back denied, I was provided no information other than NTN, status (denied), and reminded to alert buyer about appeal process. They have never provided reason for denial. That is typically provided to the buyer during the appeal process. So I'm curious how they knew that's the reason for your denial.

Here's some helpful info on the appeals process. https://ucr.fbi.gov/nics/appeals/nics-guide-for-appealing



OutlawAg17
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You have an ATF contact? Okay then Fed
skelso
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Tell us you're new around here without saying you're new around here...

Then scroll up to read my previous post to see if you can determine where you went wrong...
dtkprowler
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Whoosh, I think
mpl35
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skelso said:

Tell us you're new around here without saying you're new around here...

Then scroll up to read my previous post to see if you can determine where you went wrong...


Ok ATF. Nice try.
jonj101
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The FFL didnt initially know the reason for the denial - I was trying to summarize the situation because some wouldnt read through it and address the questions in the post. Thanks for the insight you've provided so far.

For more detail, the situation went like this:

An FFL was offering a limited time promotion of a two for one firearm deal, which required customers to pay up front and the firearms would ship from the manufacturer and be picked up later that week. The customer paid and was added to the list, but no background check was done at that moment.

On the day of pick up, the background check was done, and the customer did not provide their SSN on the form because they've purchased firearms in the past without it, and they have no criminal record or reason for disqualification, so they thought they were fine. They also don't like their personal info just floating around. The NICS came back denied. The store clerk provided the brochure with the website and NTN on it, and said they could find out the reason for the denial there.

Customer goes home, begins googling as well does the initial inquiry on the website to find out about the reason for the denial. In between that, based on whats being found info-wise online, the FFL is called and asked about the possibility of running the background check with the SSN, as well as questions about the timeline for the appeal, etc. The clerk then relates the message about if another attempt is made to purchase a firearm within 30 days, the authorities will be notified. Customer asks the clerk how long will they retain the firearms while this issue is being resolved, and the clerk tells them they'll have management follow up with them.

The reason comes back from the database which clearly indicates a case of mistaken identity, as it references conviction/prison sentence that doesn't apply to the customer. Customer starts the challenge/appeal process.

Customer doesn't hear form the FFL for two days, so when he calls back he mentions the appeal process and asks again how long the firearms will be held. Clerk says they're not holding them and that only a refund will be issued. Customer takes issue with this. Later on a manager calls the customer back and says that while they can't hold them, once the issue is resolved they will offer some type of comparable deal (basically trying to be more understanding and make it right).

In between all this, the customer learns that the appeal process involves fingerprinting and documentation, but also learns about the benefits associated with the LTC, and how once its attained it is not necessary to do a background check for every purchase. They reason that they might as well go through the background process associated with LTC since they'll only need to do it once. However, they are not able to get a straight answer on if there is an issue with moving forward with the LTC process while the appeal is going on or the incorrect info is on the background check. LTC Instructors are contacted and some say one thing, whereas others don't know. Attempts are made to contact lawyers that advertise they are specialists in firearms, but those attempts are not successful.
CactusThomas
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What a nightmare
skelso
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Sounds like a bad deal.

LTC is never a bad idea. Just be aware, FFLs do not have to waive the nics check due to LTC, it's merely an option.

I suspect the LTC would be delayed due to background check so may be in best interest to clear it first.
redaszag99
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OutlawAg17 said:

You have an ATF contact? Okay then Fed
I assume you are kidding

I have never met kelso, but he has a reputation of being 1000%
redaszag99
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Get a CHL?

I was buying an AR years ago from Eyeguy and was in a hurry heading out of town.

I roll in with my son and I hadn't bought a gun in a while. I think it was at the end of covid lock downs.

My CHL was expired. I was initially denied on NICS. I got it in about 10 minutes. Never again will I be without it.
schmellba99
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redaszag99 said:

OutlawAg17 said:

You have an ATF contact? Okay then Fed
I assume you are kidding

I have never met kelso, but he has a reputation of being 1000%
Nahhh....he's sketchy AF man. I'm talking super sketchy. Former lumber yard employee type of sketchy.
jonj101
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Thanks - I didn't realize that even for LTC holders the NICS check is at the discretion of the dealer. Everywhere else I've seen presented it as more of a policy/process that the background check step wasn't taken for LTC holders.

hillcountryag86
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Had a lady walk into the store accompanied by a Constable. She wanted a gun and filled out a 4473.

It came back denied. I started to explain the appeals process when she turned to her Constable friend and said, "I guess that aggravated assault charge is still on my record."
skelso
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jonj101 said:

Thanks - I didn't realize that even for LTC holders the NICS check is at the discretion of the dealer. Everywhere else I've seen presented it as more of a policy/process that the background check step wasn't taken for LTC holders.




FFLs can set store policy more strictly than the ATF rules and regs.

It's similar to the fact that an FFL MAY receive firearm shipment from an individual but some refuse to do it. Or even better example is the fact that as an FFL, you can ship a firearm to me for repair and I can ship it back to you but some FFLs insist they must ship to an FFL in your area and havenyou fill out a new 4473...
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