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What can you count on? Natural Gas, Coal, Nuclear

3,299 Views | 65 Replies | Last: 52 min ago by SunrayAg
Animal Eight 84
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Over 85% of ERCOT's power during last night's freezing cold came from reliable Natural Gas, Coal, and Nuclear.

Can't argue with facts, the 68,000 megawatts of wind and solar capacity is unreliable.


ChoppinDs40
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You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?
Corps_Ag12
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Definitely need more nuclear
Bradley.Kohr.II
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At this point, I think every sane person prefers nuclear.

Solar may be a good use for desert/parking lots/building rooves, etc.
DrEvazanPhD
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Bradley.Kohr.II said:

At this point, I think every sane person prefers nuclear.

Solar may be a good use for desert/parking lots/building rooves, etc.
I think solar is fine on top of an existing structure, like warehouses. Taking up acres of otherwise viable land...that's just dumb.
Gunny456
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What was wrong with the lignite plants? They had become very clean.

Then we could get a lot of our good fishing lakes back.
aTm2004
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DrEvazanPhD said:

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

At this point, I think every sane person prefers nuclear.

Solar may be a good use for desert/parking lots/building rooves, etc.
I think solar is fine on top of an existing structure, like warehouses. Taking up acres of otherwise viable land...that's just dumb.
Agree. If you go to Google Maps and look at Arizona State's campus, you'll see a lot of solar panels on top of buildings and used as covered parking. IMO, that is the best way to use solar.

Covered parking
Bradley.Kohr.II
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Again, I think all sane people think covering farmland instead of parking lots is idiotic - which is why DC incentivized covering crop fields, I guess.
GSS
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A&M and SMR's

"Texas A&M University System Chancellor John Sharp said land (at RELLIS) has been offered to the four companies to build their small modular reactors (SMRs) at the site, with an application already started for an Early Site Permit with the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The proposed site is projected to accommodate multiple SMRs with a combined electrical output of more than one gigawatt."


NRA Life
TSRA Life
Sims
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Transition all OTR trucking and rail to CNG. Build nat gas cogen plants. Develop the heck out of small nuclear.
Animal Eight 84
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ChoppinDs40 said:

You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?


Do you like using electricity in the evening and at night?
Apache
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I would add you can also count on Geothermal.
Gunny456
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This.
Aggietaco
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I'm surprised wind was providing almost 15% at nearly midnight.
giddings_ag_06
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Aggietaco said:

I'm surprised wind was providing almost 15% at nearly midnight.
Wind doesn't stop blowing just because it's dark. Proven by my grill cover across the fence on my neighbor's place.
kyledr04
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Feels like gas for now. Lots of older lignite plants are gone or going away because of plant age, EPA regs, or just running out of good, accessible lignite.
MGS
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ChoppinDs40 said:

You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?
Somehow we still got 1 MW of power out of solar at midnight.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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Batteries?
ChoppinDs40
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MGS said:

ChoppinDs40 said:

You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?
Somehow we still got 1 MW of power out of solar at midnight.
street lights giving off UV....
Jason_Roofer
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ChoppinDs40 said:

You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?
We just need to conquer the globe and install solar panels around the equator, then we just need some big extension cords to Texas. Then we have solar all the time. Problem solved.
ChoppinDs40
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Jason_Roofer said:

ChoppinDs40 said:

You mean the sun doesn't shine at night time?
We just need to conquer the globe and install solar panels around the equator, then we just need some big extension cords to Texas. Then we have solar all the time. Problem solved.
bingo.

We also need to stop hurricanes by dumping a lot of ice in the ocean to cool it off.
Milwaukees Best Light
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Since we are dancing around it, I am curious to hear opinions on Global Warming.

1. Do you believe it is actually occurring?

2. Do you believe it is being caused by man, or a natural earth cycle?

3. Saying you believe it is actually happening, do you think man can do anything to stop it?
Prince_Ahmed
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Gunny456 said:

What was wrong with the lignite plants? They had become very clean.

Then we could get a lot of our good fishing lakes back.
It's mined out. I grew up seeing acres and acres of good forest and cropland strip mined for lignite - with promises it would be reclamated and given back to the landowners after 10 - 15 year leases. 75 years later, with leases that politicians kept renewing with no option for the landowners, it's a wasteland. Little patches of "reclamated" pines where hardwoods once stood, rusted equipment, ruined water tables.

And the original landowners and descendants still aren't getting it back. Now they're saving it for solar farms that they may or may not ever get government funding for.
Jbob04
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Not the coal mines in my area. Guess you got stuck with a ****ty company. The reclaimed lands around me are pristine and hold some awesome wildlife.
Zaiquiri
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I believe it's called lunar power.
Gunny456
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I have seen some areas as you describe.
insulator_king
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DrEvazanPhD said:

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

At this point, I think every sane person prefers nuclear.

Solar may be a good use for desert/parking lots/building rooves, etc.
I think solar is fine on top of an existing structure, like warehouses. Taking up acres of otherwise viable land...that's just dumb.
Lots of west Texas and southern half of New Mexico is only viable for Saltbush, creosote & Russian Thistle. Hundreds of square miles that would be better looking with expansive solar panel arrays.

There's a good one just south of Los Lunas, west of I-25. I think it's going to connect to the SunZia project.
Animal Eight 84
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Commercial solar generation and wind generation would not exist with generous federal subsidies.

Can you imagine transitioning from a reliable automobile that can run 7/24 to a vehicle that might not run next week?
And expecting your unsubsidized neighbor to drive you in his 50 year old car when your federally subsidized car isn't running.

A lot of wealth via federal taxes ( subsidies ) has transferred into Texas corporations from states that don't have wind and solar.
Jason_Roofer
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Milwaukees Best Light said:

Since we are dancing around it, I am curious to hear opinions on Global Warming.

1. Do you believe it is actually occurring?

Yes. Climate change is real. I spent undergrad and post grad studying and understanding it. It's normal. No need to be alarmed.

2. Do you believe it is being caused by man, or a natural earth cycle?

I don't think we caused it. I think we are part of the overall process as a whole. I feel it's narcissistic to think we are that awesome so as to cause the earth to change its normal course. If we all died tomorrow, the climate would still change.

3. Saying you believe it is actually happening, do you think man can do anything to stop it?

No. Not in any meaningful way. Again, we're just along for the ride.




All that said, even though I don't think we have a huge impact, I think we should be good stewards of the environment. I am constantly reminded on our place that we don't own anything. Humans have lived and died exactly where I grow vegetables for tens of thousands of years. They've fished the same spring fed creek I do. They are gone, and now it's my turn to care for it. We are only passive and temporary stewards of our parcel of land. We're here for a one lifetime and then it's someone else's to care for. Solar is not being a good steward. Neither is strip mining. But that was the best we could do once and when we realize the impacts we should do better.
aggiesherpa
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AG
I like the idea of a diversified mix, but that means you have to have the flexibility to turn things on and off. Which Texas seems to be doing a good job of....at the moment. Having a mix I think would still encourage innovation to come up with more efficient technologies in the long term.

In the light reading I have done, there does seem to be good developments with nuclear energy potentially coming, as a couple people have referenced.
Milwaukees Best Light
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Well thought out response. I will give my own answers tomorrow. Maybe some others will join in. Sorry if this is a hijack. Seems on the same topic to me.
ChoppinDs40
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The answer is more nuclear and then also more natural gas peaker plants.

These new peakers are awesome and can spin up in minutes.

Let solar and wind fill the gap in the day then fire up NG when needed.
SteveBott
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Renewables are for summer not winter. ERCOT only expects these to provide 5-7% in winter. But summer can be as much as 20-25%.

https://san.com/cc/renewables-aided-2024-texas-summer-power-surge-winter-challenges-remain/
pfo
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Solar and wind farms are hideous! Without subsidies they would never be built. Turning a field of grass and trees into a solar farm ought to be illegal. It sure doesn't look green to me.
Animal Eight 84
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Quote:



"Let solar and wind fill the gap in the day then fire up NG when needed."

"Renewables are for summer not winter. ERCOT only expects these to provide 5-7% in winter. But summer can be as much as 20-25%. "



The unintended consequence of subsidized wind and solar is every megawatt they sell is income NOT being made by a reliable source of power. That has become a very big number.

Thus coal and natural gas became unprofitable. That's why the ERCOT grid is being supplied by a 50 year old fleet of natural gas and coal plants. Most of them have been torn down.

ERCOT will be lucky to, especially in the San Antonio area to make it through the summer without interrupting large load customers. 345 KV transmission is limited to about 200 miles. City Public Service is trying to restart a shutdown 1970 power plant Braunig 3 to make it through the summer demand. ERCOT is evaluating restarting two 1960s vintage shutdown plants Braunig 1&2. I can't imagine the nightmare that must be, three decrepit units, not maintained, the experienced staff long gone.

A sustained high pressure weather system system
slowing down wind generation, combined with the high demand period 1700-2100 when it's still hot but solar has minimal output , is a real concern.
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